MS3 to WRX/EVO... natural evolution?

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by Jpspeedthree What I meant was, you can make a car as fast as your wallet will let you. (For the most part) the 10k in mods being comparable for straight line whp wouldn't be a crazy difference. Now if you factor in the money you save by purchasing an ms3 instead of Evo/sti and put that money into more mods.. Wouldn't the ms3 come out ahead? Im probably being redundant, considering it really comes down to DD or race car like you said. The ms3 will never get around a track like those awd platforms.

I would guess if doing everything your self..speed3 compared to evo 9 using $10k for parts..you will have roughly 100-200whp more in the Evo9. Only one 2.3DISI is in the 700s and im sure it was very costly to get there. Thanks to members on this forum issues are being addressed so more power can be made (fuel is a huge one) on the 2.3DISI but at this point in time the aftermarket differences are what set the outcome. $10k for an evo buys more power mods than 10k for a speed3 but both make power pretty easy.

[dsmluck]

I owned a 2009 Mazdaspeed 3 on E85 and a gt3076r. I also owned a 2012 WRX on E85 and a 20g. Both cars trapped nearly the same but the WRX could put the traction down in any weather. The MS3 became a highway roll only car. Also the MS3 was more difficult to drive hard coming out of the corner. The MS3 did have a better interior but I would have still chosen the WRX as my daily. The power delivery was very smooth and the traction was always there.

Bang for the buck is heavily skewed to the WRX for anything under 400whp though. I spent a couple grand less in the WRX to hit the same trap speeds as in the MS3.

Both are great cars. Fanboys on either side will try to tell you otherwise but either one is not a bad choice.

Makes me sad I drive a Saab as my daily now....

[DansSpace]

My car ownership progression has gone as such:

2002 WRX. Exhaust, tune, 230whp. Not a bad car. I must not have liked it that much though, because I only kept it for 23k miles.

2005 Legacy GT. VF52 swap, 310whp/360wtq. Fun in a straight line, absolute boat in the corners. Overall, the car started out as being plenty boring, and I kept putting money into it trying to end up with something fun. After the car started burning a quart and a half of oil every 1k miles because of a worn out motor, I decided I'd cut my losses and get into something that isn't slowly becoming a money pit.

I now have a 2013 Speed3 and the fun factor blows those two out of the water. Drove a '13 WRX, Focus ST, GTI and the Speed 3 certainly came out on top for performance/utility/comfort/amenities per dollar. And it was certainly the funnest car to drive out of the four.

[doubleflusher]

Originally Posted by 4G63 More info on the Evo you got? Congrats man time for usable 600+whp lol

Originally Posted by surebOOst Who buys Evos new anyway? P.S. You dirty whore atleast post some pics up in the Evo/Dsm thread!

It's now in the EVO/DSM thread.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

To the people throwing $10k into their cars: are you sure you bought the right car to begin with? I'm all into modding, but that's a stupid amount.

[Jpspeedthree]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo To the people throwing $10k into their cars: are you sure you bought the right car to begin with? I'm all into modding, but that's a stupid amount.

I typically wouldn't spend that much but it was just for illustration purpose. Honestly though.. If you throw some nice wheels and then go full bolt ons with a Cobb ap.. Youre probably spending around 5k+ easily. I'd rather buy a stock car - spend 5k customizing it how I like it.. Then spend that total amount on a car that's a "step up". I made that cheaper car my own. I modified it the way I wanted to. Not many have a car exactly like mine.. But if you're stock.. Thousands of people drive the same thing as you. Nothing special about it. If you're talking a gtr or super car.. That's one thing I guess. This is just my personal opinion though.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by Jpspeedthree I typically wouldn't spend that much but it was just for illustration purpose. Honestly though.. If you throw some nice wheels and then go full bolt ons with a Cobb ap.. Youre probably spending around 5k+ easily. I'd rather buy a stock car - spend 5k customizing it how I like it.. Then spend that total amount on a car that's a "step up". I made that cheaper car my own. I modified it the way I wanted to. Not many have a car exactly like mine.. But if you're stock.. Thousands of people drive the same thing as you. Nothing special about it. If you're talking a gtr or super car.. That's one thing I guess. This is just my personal opinion though.

Couldn't agree more. Good post.

[Dimenus]

I think AWD is overblown anyway at least in regards to weather. Living in the midwest, I bought snows right before winter and had 0 traction issues. I passed plenty of AWD cars on all seasons and summers while still being able to stop much faster. I understand that AWD on snows is nearly unstoppable, but it's also more $$$$.

[nukepilot]

10K into an LS3 motor and you can make 600+ with ease and the motor is still rock solid.

[gt_nfr]

Originally Posted by nukepilot 10K into an LS3 motor and you can make 600+ with ease and the motor is still rock solid.

Or into stocks! And then 10 years later I can stuff them earnings down some bitch's tits!

Sent from my mobile device

[kelchy]

I'll only trade my car in on a mid 90's Acura NSX or a Subaru BRZ STI (if they even make it).

Besides that I see it pointless to want an EVO or STI coming from an MS3.

I'm in no hurry and will enjoy my car for likely a few more years.

[Pocket Rocket]

Originally Posted by Jpspeedthree I typically wouldn't spend that much but it was just for illustration purpose. Honestly though.. If you throw some nice wheels and then go full bolt ons with a Cobb ap.. Youre probably spending around 5k+ easily. I'd rather buy a stock car - spend 5k customizing it how I like it.. Then spend that total amount on a car that's a "step up". I made that cheaper car my own. I modified it the way I wanted to. Not many have a car exactly like mine.. But if you're stock.. Thousands of people drive the same thing as you. Nothing special about it. If you're talking a gtr or super car.. That's one thing I guess. This is just my personal opinion though.

This^ I like having something thats not the same as every other car on the road. I could have just used my money to buy a 5.0 mustang but every guy has one of those. They are so unoriginal. Plus, I like the being the underdog.

[DVM17]

My next car from the speed or "evolution" if you will, will probably be an '04 KB Mustang Cobra. The bang for the buck is ridiculous....... as long as I'm somewhere far away from snow by then...

lol

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo To the people throwing $10k into their cars: are you sure you bought the right car to begin with? I'm all into modding, but that's a stupid amount.

Lke the guy below your post said...you can easily spend 5k+ just in basic boltons and new wheels. Start looking for a new turbo and fueling solutions, clutch etc...your right at 10k if not over it.

Modding your car is like being a smoker...so many people disagree with what you are doing....you just have to blow smoke in their face tell them to fuck off

[Code Monkey]

$10k? Lol, roll cage and coilovers cost me that much, then add three sets of rims $3k, turbo + supporting mods, brakes, mounts, clutch, full exhaust, cooling, etc, etc, and you are knocking at $25k for a solid build.

For road racing my next cars will all be two-seaters, Miata, BRZ, Corvette, etc, no more sedans or hatchbacks. For drag racing I can understand switching to an Evo.

[Hoyoman]

Evos and stis are nice i would love to own a 2006 evo also but a lot of asshats drive them around here racing everywhere they can usually next to schools.

I think Payne made the best upgrade going to the cobra IMO. The cobras can be so ridiculous with the amount of money spent

That will be the next car

[spdandpwr]

Originally Posted by Cjburn I recently bought a 2013 MS3 with tech for 23900+ ttl. The base WRX was two thousand dollars more, and the cars fit and finish was worse than my wifes old 2002 Focus I was driving around. Eventually I will get a tune, HPFP, and full exhaust and probably call it a day. If I didn't have two kids and live in Northern IL I wouldn't hesitate and just bought the Mustang I really wanted. The MS3 is an excellent compromise. I have driven a ton of different FWD cars over the years, as I've been into imports for 15 years now. I actually like the FWD sometimes over the AWD for just plain doing stupid things. AWD is a little boring to me. I wanted a car that behaved like a 16 year old kid when I wanted to without attracting any rice boy attention and the MS3 does exactly that. I just wish these cars were like the old school MAF turbo cars of days gone by, with a Walbro, front mount, boost controller and an AFC without voiding the warranty. I'd probably have all the bolt-ons by now if it weren't for the fact that if I voided my warranty I would be sleeping on the couch for awhile.

I bought a 2013 tech, too and must say that this car is amazing. Granted my perspective is skewed since I've only driven fwd cars since I started paying for cars with my own money, but I think it's hard to notice the value inherent with the Mazda. Seriously, I had an Acura TSX, Acura ILX, Civic Si, and VW Jetta 2.0T and all of them don't even hold a candle to this car.

[Boost1982ShitBox]

Originally Posted by DVM17 My next car from the speed or "evolution" if you will, will probably be an '04 KB Mustang Cobra. The bang for the buck is ridiculous....... as long as I'm somewhere far away from snow by then... lol

This is what i was thinking 03 and 04 cobras are amazing platforms with great aftermarket support.

[4G63]

Originally Posted by Hoyoman I think Payne made the best upgrade going to the cobra IMO. The cobras can be so ridiculous with the amount of money spent That will be the next car

Originally Posted by Boost1982ShitBox This is what i was thinking 03 and 04 cobras are amazing platforms with great aftermarket support.

Do yourselves a favor and get an LS car like a C5 Z06 or a Trans/Am WS6. Wayyy easier to make power with little funds and reliably. Plus it's an LS motor so there literally infinite amounts of parts for dirt cheap if something broke

I love Cobra's mainly because I'm more of a Ford fan then Chevy but when it comes to modding potential, backed up with real world track times its an easy decision. C5Z's run 10s with a heads, cam, intake and a tune. Not gonna ever get that from a Cobra. There's a reason every fox body out there runs an LS motor. Blow a motor in a 03-04 Terminator? Have fun spending money to replace that. Friend did that and he now has an LS3 in it lmao

Friends Head, cam, 3600 stall and nitrous WS6. 9 sec pass

Samsel's 9 second Formula WS6 - 200 shot H/C LS1 - YouTube

Samsel's 9 second Formula WS6 - 200 shot H/C LS1 - YouTube

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by 4G63 Do yourselves a favor and get an LS car like a C5 Z06 or a Trans/Am WS6. Wayyy easier to make power with little funds and reliably. Plus it's an LS motor so there literally infinite amounts of parts for dirt cheap if something broke I love Cobra's mainly because I'm more of a Ford fan then Chevy but when it comes to modding potential, backed up with real world track times its an easy decision. C5Z's run 10s with a heads, cam, intake and a tune. Not gonna ever get that from a Cobra. There's a reason every fox body out there runs an LS motor. Blow a motor in a 03-04 Terminator? Have fun spending money to replace that. Friend did that and he now has an LS3 in it lmao Friends Head, cam, 3600 stall and nitrous WS6. 9 sec pass Samsel's 9 second Formula WS6 - 200 shot H/C LS1 - YouTube

I see what you're saying, but my heart lies with the KB Cobra..... DAT SOUND...

04 Kenne Bell Cobra fly-bys / wot passes (643rwhp/613rwtq) - YouTube

04 Kenne Bell Cobra fly-bys / wot passes (643rwhp/613rwtq) - YouTube

[Boost1982ShitBox]

4G63 I completely agree but im a mustang guy, the chevy i would get would be a C6 ZO6 because I love the LS7

[Hoyoman]

Same I agree too forgot to mention the c5's, cheap and can be made very quick. Those would be my choices over the ws6 I respect their power but I personally don't like the way they look.

All are great choices

[Ziggo]

Miata

Zigatapatalka

[bvbull200]

Originally Posted by DVM17 I see what you're saying, but my heart lies with the KB Cobra..... DAT SOUND...

Love the sound of the exhaust. Hate the sound of the blower.

[Fatbob Rock]

I went the other direction. I just switched from a fairly heavily modded 05 WRX to a 2013 MS3. Even with my MS3 still stock, I think it's more fun. It should only get better as I start to mod it. And the interior of the WRX doesn't even come close. Even the 13, which I test drove before I bought the MS3. Subaru really has to work on that interior.

[spdandpwr]

2013 tech ms3 is tits...nuff said. Only up I see from Evo and Sti is the fact that the aftermarket is a bit bigger and you get awd.

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by bvbull200 Love the sound of the exhaust. Hate the sound of the blower.

I love the blower sound. lol But yea, the exhaust sounds like sex too.

[Budwise]

I went from a 2012 MS3 to a 2013 Mustang 5.0. I'll say the MS3 is much more of an all-round car. Trunk space is great, gas mileage is excellent, and the tech package has so many bells and whistles, and its fun to drive. But in the end, the Coyote motor just won out for me. Much simpler and a more reliable platform for me (i blew my turbo up on the first track day). The thing i miss the least is ofc the FWD. If only Mazda made the next gen AWD!

[Jpspeedthree]

How can you say it's more reliable platform? You just got the car? That would have to be something you'd say after owning the car for a number of years. You took the car to a track and blew your turbo? That's what happens when you drive your car to the limits, shit tends to break. I don't mean to sound offensive. It's funny how the thread went from ms3 -- sti/Evo. To comparing ms3's to v8 platforms. Comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. I do like the new 5.0 mustang though, I'm not dissing your car.

[spdandpwr]

I heard that the transmissions on the new coyotes are pretty bad. My friend had a '12 and it was whining pretty loudly when he sold it after 10k miles.

[Payne Racing 67]

Originally Posted by spdandpwr I heard that the transmissions on the new coyotes are pretty bad. My friend had a '12 and it was whining pretty loudly when he sold it after 10k miles.

Problem is, Ford=Mazda. They both use these newer chinese crap transmissions. Whats the common issue with our cars? 2nd gear...guess gear goes in the new 5.0's. IIRC they DID change to a better trans for '13

Realistically though, they are much more reliable. Bone stock the 5.0 makes pretty much what an MS3 is limited to on the stock block power wise. Itll reliably make mid 600's rwhp(so far, maybe more) stock block. At that theyll still get roughly the same gas mileage(28-30mpg hwy), and for what, 3k more than a fully loaded MS3? Sure you can get an MS3 within that power range, but itll still never be as reliable, and certainly not DD. I came to that realization when I blew my 2nd gear. Why spend the money to rebuild, then have to build my motor, and be driving a potential headache daily?



Sent from your moms phone

[alaskazero]

just buy a fail wheel drive ms3 build the shit out of it and if your not satisfied get an ms6 and build that shit

also hate subarus and evos (since in stuck here in alaska and thats all i see everyday!)

[intotheice]

WRX?...... No Thanks... Drove it, sucks.
EVO?...... No Thanks... Drove it, other than the stock recaro seats, sucks.

[Jpspeedthree]

Originally Posted by intotheice WRX?...... No Thanks... Drove it, sucks. EVO?...... No Thanks... Drove it, other than the stock recaro seats, sucks.

I really wish the ms3 had stock recaros and some brembos! Maybe throw in some nice bbs wheels too? Then they'd want to raise the price tag another 5k though.

[VT2WA]

I have a co-workers that went from an EVO to a MS3.

The interior of the EVO sucks, transmissions break when daily driving 350+ hp (sure it's fun, but you need to replace stuff faster too). Overall daily driving comfort of the MS3 is better than the EVO, or even the STi or WRX for that matter.

[doubleflusher]

I didn't buy my Evo for the interior. I bought it to be fast.

Comparing MS3's to Evo's and STI's is just silly. The cars are so different with different purposes.

All platforms have "weaknesses".

My tranny and transfer case have both been rebuilt with slightly better components to last a bit longer.

BTW, this triple disc clutch is the bees knees.

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by doubleflusher I didn't buy my Evo for the interior. I bought it to be fast. Comparing MS3's to Evo's and STI's is just silly. The cars are so different with different purposes. All platforms have "weaknesses". My tranny and transfer case have both been rebuilt with slightly better components to last a bit longer. BTW, this triple disc clutch is the bees knees.

Agreed. I do not know one person who bought an Evo for the interior...just like I dont know one person who bought the Ms3/6 for the aftermarket support.

[Budwise]

Originally Posted by Jpspeedthree How can you say it's more reliable platform? You just got the car? That would have to be something you'd say after owning the car for a number of years. You took the car to a track and blew your turbo? That's what happens when you drive your car to the limits, shit tends to break. I don't mean to sound offensive. It's funny how the thread went from ms3 -- sti/Evo. To comparing ms3's to v8 platforms. Comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. I do like the new 5.0 mustang though, I'm not dissing your car.

Its more reliable because:

1) No Direct Injection
2) No forced induction

Its just a simple V8 that makes good power. This is probably also my personal opinion showing as well due to having lots of issues with my MS3 and virtually none with my 5.0. But having talked to lots of gearheads and mechanics at the track days etc im hearing a lot of the same things from them. Im not dissing the DISI motor at all either, its fricking awesome when they're running right but I apparently got a bad one.

The thread was just involving what peoples taste evolved to after the MS3, was just sharing my experience.

Originally Posted by spdandpwr I heard that the transmissions on the new coyotes are pretty bad. My friend had a '12 and it was whining pretty loudly when he sold it after 10k miles.

Yea I've heard of some people getting gear whine and transmission whine. Luckily its a small %. The MT82 transmissions are good up til around 600HP ive heard and after that its a crap shoot.

[Cheapspeed]

I think the natural progression to and from the MS3 is generally, speed.

We all like to go fast and have fun driving and modding. Anybody that switches to a car with a less than ideal interior or ride comfort is more interested in being forced into the back of their seat than the stitching on the pleather.

[Elusivellama]

The WRX is not bad, but 5MT and shitty shifter/clutch turns me off - plus knowing that the car only looks like an STI but lacks the necessary bits would not sit well with me. In my opinion, you either get an STI or you don't even bother. It's like spending $10 on a cheap cut of steak when you could have bought a much nicer rib steak for $12 ~ $13.

As for the Evo, I need my car to be practical and relatively fuel efficient (within qualified limits), and the Evo is neither. As someone here mentioned, the trunk might fit a head of cabbage and a jar of peanut butter...and the sad part is that he's only half joking. It's fucking dismal to have to deal with a DD that doesn't play nice with your lifestyle.

The STI seems to be a 'natural' evolution as it comes in a hatchback, it is turbocharged, it's a 6MT and it has AWD. However I wouldn't dare buy one while the ringland problems still exist - I have zero interest in buying an expensive car and feeling like I'm driving a time bomb. Maybe when Subaru uses the turbo FA20 and addresses both fuel economy and ringlands, then I might consider the STI but only after it's in the 3rd or 4th year of production.

I'm happy with the Genpu for now, it's a good compromise FWD and all, and I would only consider an upgrade sometime around 2015 or 2016, possibly longer in order to squeeze more value out of the car. It entertains me enough, I retain the option to upgrade the turbo to a GTX2867R or something, and I fully realize there will always be a faster car (within attainable limits).