Need some Opinions

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Hey All, I'm currently in the process of looking at purchasing a new car. My final 2 options are 2013 MS3, or a 2013 Ford ST.

I've had numerous boosted cars in the past as well as some v8 powered rides (Mustang, and 06 GTO). With that said, I'm up there in age now (ha) have a house, Wife, and a baby. I'm looking at these two hatches because I still want something I can put some money into and have a peppy/fun to drive daily driver, but also be able to use if needed for family use (also have an SUV, and Mazda6). So this would be more for me to play with to and from work, and when the Wife and kid aren't with me.

I'm confused at what to get at this point. To me Performance is very close. I've seen quite a few stock dyno's on both cars and they are very similar (seems ST is underrated from Factory). I think ST might be slightly better from a road course stand point, and the MS3 might be slightly better in a straight line (this is of course stock vs stock).

Exterior to me, MS3 looks slightly better has a little more "flare" to it I guess you could say. Just the over all body lines, and "bulkiness" of the MS3 looks better to me.

Interior to me, ST looks much better, more modern look, seems more updated. MS3 looks so similar to my Wife's 09 Mazda 6, she got in the MS3 and was like "gee looks just like mine". MS3 has more leg room and overall cabin room to me, seems more "comfortable" I guess you could say.

So, I guess I'm just looking for some feedback from you all. I realize this is the "Mazda" forums, so I'm not looking for everyone to be like get the MS3. Just looking to hear how you guys feel with the MS3, have you modded it? how did it respond to Mods? What you've done to your car seem to "wake" it up in 1st and 2nd with the "limited" boost, and up top after 6k rpms?

BTW: I have test drove both cars, ST has a smooth pull throughout the power band, where as the MS3 pulls real hard from 3-6krpms. Feels like the MS3's power is more in your face and an old school Turbo feel, spooling and then BAM..

Any thoughts and feedback is appreciated.
Thanks in advance, and look forward to hearing your comments.

[pzr2874]

Originally Posted by BooSTed_Hatch To me Performance is very close. I've seen quite a few stock dyno's on both cars and they are very similar (seems ST is underrated from Factory). I think ST might be slightly better from a road course stand point, and the MS3 might be slightly better in a straight line (this is of course stock vs stock). Any thoughts and feedback is appreciated.

Get the ST based off your vast knowledge of both platforms.... If you like nannies controlling your driving... get the ST. If not.... drive the MS3

If not....search..... you shall find

[RiddlerSpeed]

Mazda: LSD - Less driver nannies - better mod support and arguably a better community - doesn't look like a depressed catfish - cheaper!

Ford: More comfortable - more creature comforts in the interior - smooth power band - recaro seats.

That's what I've gathered after driving both. Ended up getting the 2013 MS3. Love it.

[CaptObvious75]

Which one on the test drive gave you more smiles?

Keep in mind that the ST is also new, whereas the ms3 is tried and tested

[jakk]

Based on driving my friend's ST compared to my MS3...if you plan on modding, MS3. If you plan on staying stock, then get an ST. My friend's ST honestly FEELS faster than a stock MS3 even if magazine numbers I have seen tend to contradict that. From what I have seen they put down ~300 wtq stock and as such pull quite hard. Also IMHO the Recaros/interior puts ours to shame.

Now, that being said, the MS3 currently has a much better modding capability than the ST. Also, it feels a little bit more "rough" and old-school in terms of turbo lag, exhuast sound, etc. as you said. I personally prefer those qualities and find an ST to be a little bit too refined, but that is just me.

[Agent_Orange]

Mazda or GTFO!

[Moonbaby]

Do you know how many YouTube videos there are of ST vs MS3? I was on the fence with about 5 other cars and the MS3 came out the clear winner after the test drives because of how "unrefined" it was. I have fun driving my speed every day, although I can't say I've driven the ST but from the videos and everyone's opinion it just seems too tame.

[heeltoe]

well the question comes down to are you going to mod the car ?

[attomica]

I've owned my PU since January and drove an ST last week. I came to the same conclusions as most others- ST is more refined, Recaros are better, etc. I actually prefer the less-refined nature of the MS3, though. It's more visceral and engaging. As others have said, the MS3 has been around for years so aftermarket support and knowledge is fantastic. I actually prefer the MS3's interior to the ST's. I feel the MS3's is more mature and understated. By contrast, the ST's just seems too "whiz bang."

Given your stated objectives, I'd say you really can't go wrong with either, but the MS3 might be more rewarding.

[JgamB]

ST is pretty much tapped out already with a K03. If you're wanting to toss ~$1500 at the cars, the MS3 is going to be the clear winner, and a rear sway bar negates all but the factory tire advantage in the handling category.

I thought the ST interior was trying way too hard to look like a space shuttle, just didn't work for me. I would trade for the gearbox and clutch in a heartbeat, though.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by heeltoe well the question comes down to are you going to mod the car ?

Thanks for all the opinions everyone, really appreciate it.


To answer the question , Yes I plan to mod the car. Definitely looking to add all the bolt ons, but not going to the extreme of replacing the turbo.

[Doahh]

I dont see why people like the look of this... I do know why they prefer the seats though.

2013 Tech CWP IMO is sexy, although I did come from a regular skyactiv 3.

[pzr2874]

They both look too "tech"..... but that's just me

[coasttime]

I was wondering the same thing when I bought my 2013 MS3 here is something to help you decide.

Ford Focus ST vs Mazdaspeed3! - Head 2 Head Episode 28 - YouTube

Ford Focus ST vs Mazdaspeed3! - Head 2 Head Episode 28 - YouTube

MS3 is better for sure.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by coasttime I was wondering the same thing when I bought my 2013 MS3 here is something to help you decide. Ford Focus ST vs Mazdaspeed3! - Head 2 Head Episode 28 - YouTube MS3 is better for sure.

Thanks for posting. I've seen all the Head to Head vids. I like the "Ignition" episodes done by Carlos Lagos as well. He did the 1/4mile, brake 60ft, and some other tests as well.

Like someone mentioned which car put a smile on my face, and to be honest both cars did, but I think the MS3 for me is more of what I'm looking for all around Performance, Looks (exterior) even with the goofy grin, comfort/room, proven and tested platform, and of course the aftermarket scene for this car is obviously vastly larger since it's been out much longer.

[rdjr74]

Coming from a 06 VW GLI I thought I'd never find a car I'd enjoy more then it. Then I found a little diamond in the rough called a Speed 3. I've heard of these cars before but didn't give much attention. I now own a 2012 with tech (recommended imo) and can honestly say I love driving it every day. Hasn't gotten boring and it's hands down faster then my VW ever was. The community is fantastic and this car as mentioned above has several years and a redesign were as it's the first year for the ST. Touching on the first year thing. My VW happened to be the first year for their redesigned turbo engine, the 2.0 FSI engine. So you could say the guinea pig factor comes into play. Well lets just say I will never buy another first year engine again. I had to learn how to work on the thing cuz I just couldn't afford to keep taking it to the dealer. I saved thousands because of it. I would take that into serious consideration with ST. Taking into consideration how long the the speed has been out and how many years they have had to refine the engine etc., I was confident in buying it but even with that in mind I opt'd to get the 100k warranty (the fear that my VW caused me will haunt me forever).

I have modded (intake and hypertech flash) but they are modest due to the warranty and if I ever need to take it into the dealer I can remove my intake and flash it back to stock in under 30 min.

[coasttime]

Originally Posted by BooSTed_Hatch Thanks for posting. I've seen all the Head to Head vids. I like the "Ignition" episodes done by Carlos Lagos as well. He did the 1/4mile, brake 60ft, and some other tests as well. Like someone mentioned which car put a smile on my face, and to be honest both cars did, but I think the MS3 for me is more of what I'm looking for all around Performance, Looks (exterior) even with the goofy grin, comfort/room, proven and tested platform, and of course the aftermarket scene for this car is obviously vastly larger since it's been out much longer.

Glad I could help. Just post pics when you get your MS3.

[BigRedSpecial]

As far as modding goes, with an Access Port tune the car starts to really come alive in the upper RPMs... it'll still drop off (the stock turbo runs out of breath), but nowhere near as bad as stock (completely dead at 5500). Plus our Etuners are masters of squeezing everything they can out of the engine.

As for handling, a rear swaybar and better tires will completely transform the 3.

Another thing to keep in mind is the ST doesn't have a limited slip (not a real one anyway)... these front wheel drive turbo cars fucking hate traction as is. So the ST will be even worse. There is also a lot of talk about the ST's clutch being close to the limit from the factory.

The obvious answer, of course, is LSx Miata. You have your daily drivers already.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial As far as modding goes, with an Access Port tune the car starts to really come alive in the upper RPMs... it'll still drop off (the stock turbo runs out of breath), but nowhere near as bad as stock (completely dead at 5500). Plus our Etuners are masters of squeezing everything they can out of the engine. As for handling, a rear swaybar and better tires will completely transform the 3. Another thing to keep in mind is the ST doesn't have a limited slip (not a real one anyway)... these front wheel drive turbo cars fucking hate traction as is. So the ST will be even worse. There is also a lot of talk about the ST's clutch being close to the limit from the factory. The obvious answer, of course, is LSx Miata. You have your daily drivers already.

Your point is well taken, and also the K03 on the ST is even smaller then the MS3' K04, and it's nearly at its max as well. Even though they still get some good numbers out of it with Tune and bolt on's I think it would be really pushing it.

rdjr74: I had an 02 1.8T GTI, Full bolt on's and APR chip. Car was quick, but I went the route of getting a GT30R turbo, Full Race exhaust manifold, Precision turbo FMIC, and all the goodies that go with that build (fuel pump, injectors, ecu upgrade etc). Decided in the end NOT to go ahead with the build, sold all the parts, sold the car and bought an 06 GTO (LS2) which I had until about 2.5 years ago.

I agree the ST is in it's first year and that's one thing that frightens me some what. I know there is always going to be bugs and issues, and I know the car was in Europe for a few years but there is already some things I'm seeing not to kosher. (RMM is being replaced by Factory).

Like I mentioned I really liked my experience with both cars, but the looks of the MS3 (minus its grin), and the tested platform, and the 1st year of the ST has made up my mind.

I'll be sure to post up some pictures once I get it and then after its modded . Already started my research on what mods I will be going with and making my "Parts List"

[rdjr74]

Well yeah I was under the impression the 2.0 was in Europe for a few years but didn't really do much when they brought it over considering all the issues. Serious intake build up, oil in the plugs, misfires, cam follower issues. Just a mess. I didn't see the soot on the back of the VW as I do with the speed but I'm not bitching. I'd rather see it blown all over a Prius and my hatch then staying on my valves. Congrats on your decision! And get the tech package if you have the extra cash. If not then spend it on your mods you're planning down the road.

And did you really want a car that amplifies the exhaust.... Lame! The speed is all car no amp needed. And once you get an intake the swoosh and blow off are flat out sexy.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by rdjr74 Well yeah I was under the impression the 2.0 was in Europe for a few years but didn't really do much when they brought it over considering all the issues. Serious intake build up, oil in the plugs, misfires, cam follower issues. Just a mess. I didn't see the soot on the back of the VW as I do with the speed but I'm not bitching. I'd rather see it blown all over a Prius and my hatch then staying on my valves. Congrats on your decision! And get the tech package if you have the extra cash. If not then spend it on your mods you're planning down the road. And did you really want a car that amplifies the exhaust.... Lame! The speed is all car no amp needed. And once you get an intake the swoosh and blow off are flat out sexy.

Yes I will be getting the Tech package. I like the key less entry and push button start, and some of the other features are cool too BSM etc

Well that "amplified" sound wouldn't have been for long since I would've replace the entire intake system from the jump.

[rdjr74]

I thought I'd hate the BSM but I absolutely love it! Good call!

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by rdjr74 I thought I'd hate the BSM but I absolutely love it! Good call!

Yeah I thought it was a pretty cool feature when I test drove the car.

[JgamB]

I wish you could adjust the BSM - I want to know when a motorcycle is truly in my blind spot, not when I'm courteous enough to give someone 3 car lengths and use my turn signal as I blow past them.

I know they always err on the side of safety, and it's still a nice feature.... just a little too much range.

And the rain sensing wipers have worked flawlessly. I used to get so tired of adjusting intermittent speeds, and now it's completely hands off.

'13 tech package is win, and they lopped off the entirety of it in our dealing - 24.9k OTD.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by JgamB I wish you could adjust the BSM - I want to know when a motorcycle is truly in my blind spot, not when I'm courteous enough to give someone 3 car lengths and use my turn signal as I blow past them. I know they always err on the side of safety, and it's still a nice feature.... just a little too much range. And the rain sensing wipers have worked flawlessly. I used to get so tired of adjusting intermittent speeds, and now it's completely hands off. '13 tech package is win, and they lopped off the entirety of it in our dealing - 24.9k OTD.

Damn, 24.9 OTD? That's an awesome deal.

[dr hekler]

Originally Posted by BooSTed_Hatch Hey All, I'm currently in the process of looking at purchasing a new car. My final 2 options are 2013 MS3, or a 2013 Ford ST. I've had numerous boosted cars in the past as well as some v8 powered rides (Mustang, and 06 GTO). With that said, I'm up there in age now (ha) have a house, Wife, and a baby. I'm looking at these two hatches because I still want something I can put some money into and have a peppy/fun to drive daily driver, but also be able to use if needed for family use (also have an SUV, and Mazda6). So this would be more for me to play with to and from work, and when the Wife and kid aren't with me. I'm confused at what to get at this point. To me Performance is very close. I've seen quite a few stock dyno's on both cars and they are very similar (seems ST is underrated from Factory). I think ST might be slightly better from a road course stand point, and the MS3 might be slightly better in a straight line (this is of course stock vs stock). Exterior to me, MS3 looks slightly better has a little more "flare" to it I guess you could say. Just the over all body lines, and "bulkiness" of the MS3 looks better to me. Interior to me, ST looks much better, more modern look, seems more updated. MS3 looks so similar to my Wife's 09 Mazda 6, she got in the MS3 and was like "gee looks just like mine". MS3 has more leg room and overall cabin room to me, seems more "comfortable" I guess you could say. So, I guess I'm just looking for some feedback from you all. I realize this is the "Mazda" forums, so I'm not looking for everyone to be like get the MS3. Just looking to hear how you guys feel with the MS3, have you modded it? how did it respond to Mods? What you've done to your car seem to "wake" it up in 1st and 2nd with the "limited" boost, and up top after 6k rpms? BTW: I have test drove both cars, ST has a smooth pull throughout the power band, where as the MS3 pulls real hard from 3-6krpms. Feels like the MS3's power is more in your face and an old school Turbo feel, spooling and then BAM.. Any thoughts and feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance, and look forward to hearing your comments.

I am in the same boat. I like the MS3 the best for the "fun factor" and the upgrade potential!!

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by dr hekler I am in the same boat. I like the MS3 the best for the "fun factor" and the upgrade potential!!

Agreed. The upgrade potential and proven/tested platform is definitely a key contributor to my decision.

Although a lot of companies have started making a good deal of aftermarket parts for the ST already.

[rdjr74]

Yes the rain sensors are the shit! Some advice. You get one free personalization you can schedule. I recommend extending the auto headlights to come on later. Of course feel it out first but mine come on to early. They forgot to adjust that for me. Also the three blinker feature is great. My VW had it and this car does too although not on by default. You have to to take it to the dealer. there are a few other things you can do. It's all in the book.

And yes they are starting to make after market stuff for the ST but you still have to go through the thought process, well if the car isn't tested these parts are the same deal.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by rdjr74 Yes the rain sensors are the shit! Some advice. You get one free personalization you can schedule. I recommend extending the auto headlights to come on later. Of course feel it out first but mine come on to early. They forgot to adjust that for me. Also the three blinker feature is great. My VW had it and this car does too although not on by default. You have to to take it to the dealer. there are a few other things you can do. It's all in the book. And yes they are starting to make after market stuff for the ST but you still have to go through the thought process, well if the car isn't tested these parts are the same deal.

Great, I definitely plan to go over all the options with them. I don't want the headlights coming on early either.

[Zalligan]

Originally Posted by rdjr74 Yes the rain sensors are the shit! Some advice. You get one free personalization you can schedule. I recommend extending the auto headlights to come on later. Of course feel it out first but mine come on to early.

My dealer claimed the personalization was no longer free, however if I brought it in when they weren't busy they would do it. Ended up having it in a week later for tint and home link mirror and they did it then.

Fwiw, my headlights seem to come on a little late. Had I known that before I went in, I would've had em adjusted, but it's really not to bad.

And OP, search around for a thread called something like "what did you pay otd for a 2013" it should give you a good idea on what to pay. I got my 2013 cwp w/tech for 24,500 with tint and the home link mirror included in the price. Some people have gotten them even cheaper. Makes it even cheaper when compared to the st.

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by Zalligan My dealer claimed the personalization was no longer free, however if I brought it in when they weren't busy they would do it. Ended up having it in a week later for tint and home link mirror and they did it then. Fwiw, my headlights seem to come on a little late. Had I known that before I went in, I would've had em adjusted, but it's really not to bad. And OP, search around for a thread called something like "what did you pay otd for a 2013" it should give you a good idea on what to pay. I got my 2013 cwp w/tech for 24,500 with tint and the home link mirror included in the price. Some people have gotten them even cheaper. Makes it even cheaper when compared to the st.

Zalligan - Thanks appreciate that. I spoke to them briefly about price, their offer was the S package which was 26.5 BEFORE Taxes/Title/Registration. So if people are paying 24 to 25 OTD I will make sure to get it down even further.

[Zalligan]

No problem. I think people that are getting the best prices are emailing multiple dealerships just telling them straight up that they'll buy from whoever has the best price. I did get one offer of 23,800 before ttl but the dealer was 200 miles away and 700 wasn't worth the drive so I bought local.

Tappa da bass mon

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by Zalligan No problem. I think people that are getting the best prices are emailing multiple dealerships just telling them straight up that they'll buy from whoever has the best price. I did get one offer of 23,800 before ttl but the dealer was 200 miles away and 700 wasn't worth the drive so I bought local. Tappa da bass mon

Yeah I did the TrueCar and it was 22,750. I'm in Louisiana and I know it's different from state to state. I will travel a 100 miles if I have to but I think I can get the local dealer here to give me the price I want. Or I will go somewhere else.

[Zalligan]

Truecar was 22,500 on a 2013 tech? That's surprising! I just bought tail end of February and true car was telling me around 26,000 iirc.

I don't know if it makes a big difference, but we're pretty much in the same region (oklahoma) and the 23,800 quote was out of Dallas.

Tappa da bass mon

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by Zalligan Truecar was 22,500 on a 2013 tech? That's surprising! I just bought tail end of February and true car was telling me around 26,000 iirc. I don't know if it makes a big difference, but we're pretty much in the same region (oklahoma) and the 23,800 quote was out of Dallas. Tappa da bass mon

I thought it was Tech Its 120 Miles away in Alabama. I'm going to try and get the dealer down here in New Orleans before I decide to go elsewhere.

[dr hekler]

Originally Posted by JgamB I wish you could adjust the BSM - I want to know when a motorcycle is truly in my blind spot, not when I'm courteous enough to give someone 3 car lengths and use my turn signal as I blow past them. I know they always err on the side of safety, and it's still a nice feature.... just a little too much range. And the rain sensing wipers have worked flawlessly. I used to get so tired of adjusting intermittent speeds, and now it's completely hands off. '13 tech package is win, and they lopped off the entirety of it in our dealing - 24.9k OTD.

What state do you live in and who was the dealer? Thats a smokin deal!!

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by dr hekler What state do you live in and who was the dealer? Thats a smokin deal!!

That's what I was saying! I'm gonna see how much I can get the dealer down here too. Especially since it's getting later in the year they may want to move them.

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by dr hekler What state do you live in and who was the dealer? Thats a smokin deal!!

PM'ed both of you, anal retentive about advertising modded car with a warranty.

[dr hekler]

Originally Posted by JgamB PM'ed both of you, anal retentive about advertising modded car with a warranty.

Thanks for the info.....I am a green horn here so I can't pm yet.......

[BooSTed_Hatch]

Originally Posted by JgamB PM'ed both of you, anal retentive about advertising modded car with a warranty.

JgamB: Just wanted to Thank you. I contacted a dealer in Alabama about 140miles from me and they are going to give me the car for Invoice due to the TrueCar savings minus any incentives (S-plan, already own 1 Mazda etc). Not only that they will deliver the car to me on a truck for only $150 charge.

They are in the process of looking for the color/option etc I want and will be getting back to me!