No Love from ST Fanboys

[daafisch]

The mod over there already linked to this thread. I think it's on page 2 or something

[XLT_66]

Me thinks the Mazdaspeed3 will continue into a Gen3 one day. Sales numbers for the Speed3 are impressive at something like 1000/month in North America (don't quote me...i need to look back on the document) but when we were deciding how much effort that we at COBB are prepared to keep putting into this platform the answer, in short, was a simple "Yes!"

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by XLT_66 Me thinks the Mazdaspeed3 will continue into a Gen3 one day. Sales numbers for the Speed3 are impressive at something like 1000/month in North America (don't quote me...i need to look back on the document) but when we were deciding how much effort that we at COBB are prepared to keep putting into this platform the answer, in short, was a simple "Yes!"

It will be a crying shame if Mazda discontinues the MS3... but they aren't instilling a lot of confidence in me right now. Like Lex said, I hope to eat crow on this one.

[cky5117]

I really don't know why people that don't have a ms3 complain so much about the torque steer on it. Just grab the steering wheel correctly an you'l be fine. At first i was a bit carefull with it but eventually got used to it. For me its kind of fun and keeps me concentrated while driving.

[OverBoosted]

For real, I went from wrx to my ms3. At first the torque steer bothered me, but then I realized I was being a vag and maned up. Grab the steering wheel like a big boy and hold on for one hell of a ride.

Tapatalked

[fooqr]

My T-Rex arms can't handle torque steer. I'm thinking of just braking every time I accelerate to limit it.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

[G26]

So the focus st is basically a more expensive ms3 with less power, why all the hype?

[Voltwings]

Id say the ms3 is safe for a few reasons. When i bought mine back in late 2010 there was only one on the lot because they werent that popular, there were only 5 in all of HOUSTON! my buddies brother bought one in... late 2011? i want to say and there was only one on the lot because they couldnt keep them in stock, he basically had to scramble over and pay sticker price. If mazda dealerships cant even keep them in stock, people want these cars.

My second point: if you dont drive like a tool bag, with one hand on the shifter and one dirrectly at 12:00 on the steering wheel you wont even notice torque steer. Hold the wheel with your left hand at 9:00 with the seat in a reliteivly (but still comfortable) verticle position and floor it all day long with no drama because your body is set up in a much better position to control the wheel. None of this laying in the back seat while driving crap.

Lastly, i love ford, and had this car been out when i was in the market that may have been what i ended up in. However im sure ford took a note of the Cobalt SS turbos knocking out corvettes, no one can deny those little shits are fast. Im sure the last thing ford wants is its "economy hatchback" acing its mustangs, so the love and support may be limited from Ford. Yes, i have no doubt that Ford has learned many things from our platform, but mazda has no other car to worry about stepping on, this car IS mazdas flagship... its just going to be interesting to see where everything ends up, especially if those come equipped with a twin scroll turbo, i cant remember the specs off the top of my head.

[captain slow]

still waiting to be able to post there. signed up this morning and activated everything, just wont let me post yet.

[PushingRedline]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Lastly, i love ford, and had this car been out when i was in the market that may have been what i ended up in. However im sure ford took a note of the Cobalt SS turbos knocking out corvettes, no one can deny those little shits are fast. Im sure the last thing ford wants is its "economy hatchback" acing its mustangs, so the love and support may be limited from Ford. Yes, i have no doubt that Ford has learned many things from our platform, but mazda has no other car to worry about stepping on, this car IS mazdas flagship... its just going to be interesting to see where everything ends up, especially if those come equipped with a twin scroll turbo, i cant remember the specs off the top of my head.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Ford has always been worried about stepping on the Mustang's toes. I guess I can understand it but I almost want them to think of this as a lateral fight (vs other manufacturer's models in the same class) instead of a vertical one.

[Wicked]

There is a HUGE debate on cobaltss.net where I came from. I'm not impressed by it's looks at all. Power seems less than what a stock Speed lays down if the crank numbers are 250's. As for the electronic LSD, VW guys I know aren't liking it at all

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Id say the ms3 is safe for a few reasons. When i bought mine back in late 2010 there was only one on the lot because they werent that popular, there were only 5 in all of HOUSTON! my buddies brother bought one in... late 2011? i want to say and there was only one on the lot because they couldnt keep them in stock, he basically had to scramble over and pay sticker price. If mazda dealerships cant even keep them in stock, people want these cars. My second point: if you dont drive like a tool bag, with one hand on the shifter and one dirrectly at 12:00 on the steering wheel you wont even notice torque steer. Hold the wheel with your left hand at 9:00 with the seat in a reliteivly (but still comfortable) verticle position and floor it all day long with no drama because your body is set up in a much better position to control the wheel. None of this laying in the back seat while driving crap. Lastly, i love ford, and had this car been out when i was in the market that may have been what i ended up in. However im sure ford took a note of the Cobalt SS turbos knocking out corvettes, no one can deny those little shits are fast. Im sure the last thing ford wants is its "economy hatchback" acing its mustangs, so the love and support may be limited from Ford. Yes, i have no doubt that Ford has learned many things from our platform, but mazda has no other car to worry about stepping on, this car IS mazdas flagship... its just going to be interesting to see where everything ends up, especially if those come equipped with a twin scroll turbo, i cant remember the specs off the top of my head.

Good point on the Mustang... I know that Ford purposefully detuned the V8 SHO because it was putting better numbers out than the mustang at the time. We also all know that the LS1 F-body's were underrated so LS1 corvette owners didn't get butt hurt.

However, I think Ford needs to put dividers in their markets. People who love mustangs aren't going to buy a Focus ST. The ST will not be faster out of the box (not by a long shot) and that was the issue with my previous two examples. If you're in the modding world, you already understand any car can be made to out perform another with enough moeny.

So... while the ST may carry the ability to be modded to a point that it can beat the mustang, these cars comfortably exist in different realms.

The lack of LSD was pretty lame on Ford's part... but after market LSD's will be available and hopefully the tuning logic to neutered the torque vectoring system.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank However, I think Ford needs to put dividers in their markets. People who love mustangs aren't going to buy a Focus ST. So... while the ST may carry the ability to be modded to a point that it can beat the mustang, these cars comfortably exist in different realms. The lack of LSD was pretty lame on Ford's part... but after market LSD's will be available and hopefully the tuning logic to neutered the torque vectoring system.

Thats a good point, i suppose ford has to assume people may Mod but theres no sense in making the ST useless because of it... ie: gen 1 genesis turbo...

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Thats a good point, i suppose ford has to assume people may Mod but theres no sense in making the ST useless because of it... ie: gen 1 genesis turbo...

I don't think the ST is useless though. For its price range, it's very comfortably sitting where it needs to based off it's competition.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank I don't think the ST is useless though. For its price range, it's very comfortably sitting where it needs to based off it's competition.

Right, i meant it obviously has potential to beat a stock or lightly modded mustang but thats no reason to put a leash on it like hyundai did to keep the turbo genesis off the V6s heels.

[Wicked]

Base pricing, with no extra options added is $24495, with every option and premium paint cost it runs up to $31995 (or was it $30995). Either way, fully loaded is a bit steep. I have pics of the build sheets on my laptop at home

[SRTie4k]

I'd love to find the sources of all the info posted in that "datasheet", because I've seen a few things that are blatantly wrong.

18/25 gas mileage in the MS3...I think they were checking the RX8 specs accidentally. Factory sticker said something like 22/30 on mine.

[Wicked]

My 2010 was rated 18/25

[spiffy9999]

I sit back, hold my right hand on the shifter and my left hand at 12 o'clock even when I drive it hard and have never felt anything like what people are talking about "torque steer"...I'm completely stock...I'm curious what all the fuss is about....

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Right, i meant it obviously has potential to beat a stock or lightly modded mustang but thats no reason to put a leash on it like hyundai did to keep the turbo genesis off the V6s heels.

Gotcha.... that was a poor choice on Hyundai's part. I don't think Ford made the same mistake. With the base Mustang V6 making 300+ hp, they are very comfortable in where they are.

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank "some parts" is a bit of an understatement.... The entire Mazda engine package was the testing grounds for Ford's EcoBoost line of Engines. So while Mazda currently has more aftermarket experience, this Ford platform has had the same time to learn at an OEM level. Most of Mazda and Ford's cars were built on the same platform (Mazda 6/Fusion) and now that they have split, Ford has an amazing looking Fusion coming out and the EU Focus doesn't suck either. Remember, Ford bought into Mazda... Not the other way around. Mazda are the ones who are going to have a big challenge in front of them. As far as your Gen 3 MS3... With all this skyactiv talk... There has been more than one rumor circulating about the existence of the entire Mazdaspeed platform. Mazda is starting to sound like they are more interested in competing with Toyota for the mpg race then staying competitive in the hot hatch world. Hope I'm wrong about this... But we'll just have to see.

I have the feeling the Blue Oval has tainted you with its scrotum. I feel a change in the force....as if your going to buy a ST but stay on the forum and dismiss any posibilities of a new Speed3 so that we may all fall into depression and give in the number 2 hatch that Ford has to offer...I would rather buy an RS and lol at the ST guys.

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by surebOOst I have the feeling the Blue Oval has tainted you with its scrotum. I feel a change in the force....as if your going to buy a ST but stay on the forum and dismiss any posibilities of a new Speed3 so that we may all fall into depression and give in the number 2 hatch that Ford has to offer...I would rather buy an RS and lol at the ST guys.

While I do own a 2012 Focus... it's not an ST.

I hope I am 100% off on my speculations of Mazda's future intentions. I really enjoy the Mazdaspeed community (especially you jackasses) and wouldn't have left it if I had the choice. However, with the information Mazda has recently made available, I don't have high hopes for their future Speed related programs.

If the RS makes its way to American soil, it would undoubtedly out perform the ST... however the ST and the RS are like the WRX and the STi. Both have their place in the market. For some the RS will be the only way to go... however for others, the ST will fit the need perfectly.

[fredricktsang]

Originally Posted by fooqr I understand that there are different ways to compensate for torque steer. Anyone know how the ST does it? (One way, for instance, is to limit torque in 1st and 2nd gears, like the MS3 does.) Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

I know the focus rs has the revoknuckle and ediff which quell torquesteer I don't know if they are using that kind of stuff in the st.

Originally Posted by Rich990 The previous gen focus st has been around in the european market for years. There's a huge following here in SA for the 5cyl model, with guys making big power and torque.

I wish they brought the focus rs here... I would've picked up one of those in a heartbeat. The new ST isn't even close that that.

[CaptObvious75]

Any word of mazda discontinuing the speed variant is blasphemy and should be treated as such with automatic ban. These things are one of the few that actually go zoom zoom in their portfolio

[ganque]

Focus ST are no match for our cars...

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...aro-ls1-91837/

Enough said.

[WAHBAM]

Focus ST Performance Academy
I signed up for the 11 am in LA, anybody else down? haha

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by ganque Focus ST are no match for our cars... http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...aro-ls1-91837/ Enough said.

The fuck someone post this on there forum!

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by CaptObvious75 Any word of mazda discontinuing the speed variant is blasphemy and should be treated as such with automatic ban. These things are one of the few that actually go zoom zoom in their portfolio

Other than your hopes and prayers what evidence leads you to this conclusion?

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by spiffy9999 I sit back, hold my right hand on the shifter and my left hand at 12 o'clock even when I drive it hard and have never felt anything like what people are talking about "torque steer"...I'm completely stock...I'm curious what all the fuss is about....

Hammer the gas mid corner and try to keep your line with your current preferred driving position tuff guy.

[Tokay444]

St will not have revoknuckle.

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 St will not have revoknuckle.

They have to hold something back for the US debut of the Focus RS.

[pzr2874]

Originally Posted by spiffy9999 I sit back, hold my right hand on the shifter and my left hand at 12 o'clock even when I drive it hard and have never felt anything like what people are talking about "torque steer"...I'm completely stock...I'm curious what all the fuss is about....

You will understand soon young padawan...haha

[CaptObvious75]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank Other than your hopes and prayers what evidence leads you to this conclusion?

All that mazda has left to go zoom zoom in right now is the aging miata and speed3

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Originally Posted by fredricktsang I know the focus rs has the revoknuckle and ediff which quell torquesteer I don't know if they are using that kind of stuff in the st. I wish they brought the focus rs here... I would've picked up one of those in a heartbeat. The new ST isn't even close that that.

RS should be coming to the U.S. 2-3 years after the ST's debut based on things Ford has said. It's the one that will have revoknuckle. ST has "torque vectoring" bs which means it hits the brakes on the side that's misbehaving. Same way it fights torque steer.

I really wanted one of these cars last year when I was looking around for a new car. They were supposed to be out Q1 2012 at that time. When they got pushed back to the end of 2012 I couldn't wait that long, which is how I ended up on the MS3. I'm actually happy how things worked out now, I love my Speed. I will say I still like the way the ST looks and the interior is really nice with all the goodies. The specs are not bad on this car either. They are respectable, and I'd say actually pretty good for a FWD hatch. But I think they are still going to be a half-step behind us stock for stock. But this just makes the VW and Volvo hot-hatches irrelevant. WRX still has its place because of AWD, but for those that don't need that there is another great option for those that love a hot hatch.

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by CaptObvious75 All that mazda has left to go zoom zoom in right now is the aging miata and speed3

That only plays further into my fear.... they have been phasing out of the go fast market for years. Now with the separation for Ford, and the current release of there new economy line of engines. Things aren't looking very good.

While I don't think their Speed Market has done poorly for them. It's still only a fraction of their overall sales. With the current trend in the market, I could very easily Mazda kicking the enthusiast market and trying to tackle Toyota for their economy market.

[spiffy9999]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Hammer the gas mid corner and try to keep your line with your current preferred driving position tuff guy.

You act like I haven't already tried that...at one point I was wondering if I had something wrong with my ms3 but after the performance I had at my auto cross I doubt that...

[CaptObvious75]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank That only plays further into my fear.... they have been phasing out of the go fast market for years. Now with the separation for Ford, and the current release of there new economy line of engines. Things aren't looking very good. While I don't think their Speed Market has done poorly for them. It's still only a fraction of their overall sales. With the current trend in the market, I could very easily Mazda kicking the enthusiast market and trying to tackle Toyota for their economy market.

there is no reason to boot the performance car, just to evolve it to continue to make it relevant. with hot hatches making 200hp+ and getting over 30mpg highway observed i'd say they are on the right track. it'd be a shame if mazda were to drop it now when the competition just seems to get hotter with the ST coming into the picture

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by CaptObvious75 there is no reason to boot the performance car, just to evolve it to continue to make it relevant. with hot hatches making 200hp+ and getting over 30mpg highway observed i'd say they are on the right track. it'd be a shame if mazda were to drop it now when the competition just seems to get hotter with the ST coming into the picture

I completely agree... it would be a shame. Unfortunately that doesn't mean they won't do it. Like I said before, I hope I'm dead wrong.... but Mazda isn't instilling me with confidence.

[cesaros]

auto makers always go through trends with vehicles...they may stop making a performance line for a few years, but it will come back in time.

[fredricktsang]

Originally Posted by WAHBAM Focus ST Performance Academy I signed up for the 11 am in LA, anybody else down? haha

I signed up, for 12 though, 11 wasn't an option when I got on there