No Love from ST Fanboys

[themytb]

I think going after yota's share would be suicide for mazda, Toyota has a rep for boring but dependable cars. Mazda has a much more driver oriented rep. Not that mazda has bad quality or sells only sports cars, not extremely one sided. It's the old performance/quality/affordable---- pick 2 saying.

If mazda tries to switch to the boring side completely, they loose all the people who want a drivers car-- and it will take a long time to become peoples first choice in the practical/dependable game over Toyota.

I may be completely off. Just my 2 cents. I really hope Mazda stays true to their roots in the future.

[86AmishMs3]

"There seems to be a general misunderstanding over there about the torque vectoring control and electronic compensation for torque steer. They are not the same, brakes will not be applied to reduce torque steer, and the engine will not be limited in the first 2 gears, as the MS3 does.
I'm really looking forward to being able to compare more than numbers here, and have more than estimates. Hopefully, the afpcus ST is out this August."

Page 12 over there.


Hahhaa they keep speaking of torque vectoring. It has no lsd, sounds like no power compensation in lower gears.....how are you going to prevent torque steer for the limp wristed. Gonna sweet talk it? Whisper sweet nothings in the car's ears?

Sorry brakes are going to be used. Only plausible action with open diff. Thats what torque vectoring is. Have these retards not read their own reviews?

[Standsideways]

5 New Hatchbacks We Want to Drive - Ford Focus ST - Popular Mechanics


these guys say the ford uses the brakes

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Electronic power assist steering tightens up and holds the wheel for you so you don't hurt your puny chicken wrists. I want a sport fwd's solution to torque steer to be a light
on the dash that lights up "Don't be beetch." And that's it.

tapatatapa... DROID 2 Global... etc etc

[fredricktsang]

By braking the unloaded tire/wheel on the drive wheels it can force the load to go to the loaded tire. This in essence is what some people call the poor mans lsd. I can't say it's effectiveness in all conditions vs a physical lsd but under conditions where one drive wheel becomes unloaded and looses grip, it definitely can help. I'm sure they also do something similar to our dsc where they brake the inside wheel to help the car "rotate". I just signed up for the focus st event, look forward to it!

[OverBoosted]

I believe that ford claims their electronic power steering system will stop the torque steer. Not the torque vectoring, which is for wheelspin. I'm not sure how that will work, seems like it wouldn't be strong enough to stop it with the torque the engine will produce.

I guess time will tell though.

Here is a quote from a car and driver review,

—In between is electric power assist, which is the heart of the car’s torque-steer-compensation system. When the system senses an imbalance of torque to the front wheels, it reduces the steering assist in the direction the steering wheel would normally be yanked. The result, we’re told, is similar to that of theRevo Knuckle—strut from the—previous Focus RS—(a 300-hp Focus also never seen stateside) but without the extra cost and weight of  the advanced strut design.

Also, the torque vectoring system CANNOT be turned off.

Tapatalked

[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by Lex Nothing worse than people comparing cars on paper. Limited slip Watson? Unnecessary!

The biggest fail argument in the thread regarding their torque vectoring vs. LSD:

Originally Posted by ButtDyno I ask again, do you really think this will be better than a mechanical diff?

Originally Posted by MacAttack In some ways yes, in other ways no. On one hand, it's cheaper, on the other hand I think it will put a bit of extra wear on the brakes. Although, one could argue that because it allows drivers to brake less in the turns, that it'll actually save brakes.

Yeah....entering the corner 0.2 mph quicker is going to totally offset the fact that the brakes are being applied while accelerating through corner exit. One page earlier this jackass claimed his comparison's bias didn't make him a fan boy. That seems like total bullshit the marketing department came up with. "Torque vectoring: Now with longer-life brake components!"

[BigRedSpecial]

Serious question here... with our LSD the wheels will try to stay more-or-less equally powered assuming an equal surface... say the dragstrip. With their electronic substitute, when the brakes slow the powered wheel, wouldn't the sudden shock load greatly increase the probability of the other wheel breaking traction?

I know the system will then respond to that and have millisecond response, but still seems like a clusterfuck to me.

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by Crarrs The biggest fail argument in the thread regarding their torque vectoring vs. LSD: Yeah....entering the corner 0.2 mph quicker is going to totally offset the fact that the brakes are being applied while accelerating through corner exit. One page earlier this jackass claimed his comparison's bias didn't make him a fan boy. That seems like total bullshit the marketing department came up with. "Torque vectoring: Now with longer-life brake components!"

Mechanical >>>>> Electrical, in every performance aspect.

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Serious question here... with our LSD the wheels will try to stay more-or-less equally powered assuming an equal surface... say the dragstrip. With their electronic substitute, when the brakes slow the powered wheel, wouldn't the sudden shock load greatly increase the probability of the other wheel breaking traction? I know the system will then respond to that and have millisecond response, but still seems like a clusterfuck to me.

Usually all these delays are what makes electrical systems such a nuissance...since there are slight delays they always err on the safe side.

Hence why i disconnected the steering wheel angle sensor as well as others...it's intrusive and hard to predict. Mechanical is not hard to predict and the driver learns and compensates.

[Dumyz]

Curious what our members will have to say after driving the ST's... Hopefully I can give a FYFN call out.

[OverBoosted]

Depending on when they hit the dealerships, I might be working at a ford store again so I will definitely report back.

Tapatalk ed

[Lex]

AT high speeds the ELSD will not be as harsh but at low speeds it will be cumbersome. The CSRT-4 has an ELSD and that car sucked ... well for several reasons ... going around corners. It's already bad enough this thing is FWD, people looking for true performance will drop in a mechanical LSD.

[08cosmic3]

I can't wait to run into one on the street and shatter their confidence. Anyone over at the Focus forum live near Bowling Green Ky then look for a Cosmic Blue gen 1 around town. Tuned by the man above.

[Neverlift]

I decide how the car corners... not some fucking mad scientist in the computer/braking system.

The only thing I would need a computer for is to compensate for my impatience and little man syndrome so I could finally get some decent mpg's.

[Cujo]

FYSTN

[johnnyspeed6]

Ecoboost 2.0 comes factory with forged rod and crank = Win. Wife has one in the 2012 escape and its a freakin great motor in that heavy bastard ..

MS3 > Rod smasher

FYDISIN

[tddvrrn]

i believes our rods are forged. just not very well, i guess..

[Lex]

Originally Posted by johnnyspeed6 Ecoboost 2.0 comes factory with forged rod and crank = Win. Wife has one in the 2012 escape and its a freakin great motor in that heavy bastard .. MS3 > Rod smasher FYDISIN

Lol this again. Wait until they start blowing in performance applications as well.

Our crank is forged so are our rods (powder forged).

The Ecoboost is just an advancement of the DISI. Don't expect it to hold 400hp without a shortened lifespan.

[johnnyspeed6]

Originally Posted by Lex Lol this again. Wait until they start blowing in performance applications as well. Our crank is forged so are our rods (powder forged). The Ecoboost is just an advancement of the DISI. Don't expect it to hold 400hp without a shortened lifespan.

True dat ..

[CaptObvious75]

June 10 2012 First drive review:

2013 Ford Focus ST First Drive

"Countersteer isn't uncommon when driving the Focus ST hard. Try that in your Mazdaspeed 3"

"But even in hatchback form, the 2013 Ford Focus ST is going to give the current Mazdaspeed 3 the battle of its lifetime. Not many cars in this class have had both the handling and the horsepower to match Mazda's potent five-door until now."


Still can't see how this will be better track- wise than our cars, but it def seems to be more hardcore then the GTI. Nice ride from my unbiased opinion, and i'd take this over the GTI if I were choosing between the two.

[Dr. Speed]

Originally Posted by CaptObvious75 June 10 2012 First drive review: 2013 Ford Focus ST First Drive "Countersteer isn't uncommon when driving the Focus ST hard. Try that in your Mazdaspeed 3" "But even in hatchback form, the 2013 Ford Focus ST is going to give the current Mazdaspeed 3 the battle of its lifetime. Not many cars in this class have had both the handling and the horsepower to match Mazda's potent five-door until now." Still can't see how this will be better track- wise than our cars, but it def seems to be more hardcore then the GTI. Nice ride from my unbiased opinion, and i'd take this over the GTI if I were choosing between the two.

Yeah, the lack of a REAL LSD is a deal-breaker IMO...

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Originally Posted by Dr. Speed Yeah, the lack of a REAL LSD is a deal-breaker IMO...

Since everyone's expecting this to have a stronger aftermarket out the door than we do even today, my money's on that will be one of the first big parts available for this car. I'm actually glad there's another hot hatch out there to run with us, get some more attention on the market, hopefully we benefit from this too.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Competition is good for the consumer....us.

[Lex]

If the ST takes off, I will probably be tuning them as well.

[xb2ms3]

Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition.

They're raising the bar pretty high with the interior on the ST.

Those ST wheels dont look too shabby 18x8.5...wonder what the offset is on those.

Specs look good on the car but doesn't look like its gonna dethrone the king of sushi rolls. Not in stock form.

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Originally Posted by xb2ms3 Specs look good on the car but doesn't look like its gonna dethrone the king of sushi rolls. Not in stock form.

Cobalt SS?

tapatatapa... DROID 2 Global... etc etc

[Dumyz]

Has anyone here gotten in the drivers seat yet??? A few of their performance academy classes have already been completed!

New York's: June 30th
D.C.'s: July 14th
Boston: Yesterday, July 21st

[Tokay444]

The interior is AMAZING.
But that's something VAGs say.

[GunGuru727]

Originally Posted by Dumyz Has anyone here gotten in the drivers seat yet??? A few of their performance academy classes have already been completed! New York's: June 30th D.C.'s: July 14th Boston: Yesterday, July 21st

Me

Go to my NATOR thread.

I will be posting a video of me beating it soon.

[kashbringer]

It'll be good competition that for sure.. It'll always be a focus though! Less horsepower and torque from the factory and no LSD... /yawn

[breakfstincluded]

When DSPORT chose the MS3 as FWD King for 2012...

"We tested the MAZDASPEED3 on MD Automotive’s Dynojet 248Cdynamometer to validate these claims. Our dynamometer testingindicated 244.36 horsepower and 270 lb-ft torque (at the wheels) whichcalculates to 287.5 flywheel horsepower and 317.65 lb-ft torque. The testplatform actually produced 24.5 horsepower and 37.65 lb-ft torque morethan Mazda’s specifications, indicating that the MAZDASPEED3 more than delivers the goods."

Top Choice FWD 2012 - MAZDASPEED3: Threepeat for the SPEED3 — | DSPORT Magazine #108

[Pope]

70 percent of those people who are getting one will be payed for from the parents because there all emo teenagers, ill be looking forward to adding a FYFN sticker and smokin some bitches.


PS. Their proffessional? what part of talking shit about the other rides and stating there car is far superior when it hasnt hit the streets yet proffessional?. They say were the children? i LOL in their faces.

[Tokay444]

If anything we're the forefathers.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Lol. That efr is a baby. There is no way it's gonna flow 440hp's worth of air.

I'll put this over here too since I know those fegs are reading it.

[Tokay444]

Hahahaha.
Turbofold!!!!!

[SRTie4k]

Originally Posted by kashbringer It'll be good competition that for sure.. It'll always be a focus though! Less horsepower and torque from the factory and no LSD... /yawn

I really hate it when people say stupid shit like this. Who cares what the base car is? The SRT-4 was always "just a neon", the SS/TC was "just a cobalt", the Evo is "just a lancer", the STI is "just an impreza"...and the MS3 is "just a 3".

Who gives a fuck what the car is based on? Does that make it any less potent an adversary if it is tuned well, and performs well? Each and every one of those cars were rated best in class at one point or another.

Take your head out of your ass and quit with the fanboy bullshit. A good, solid, purpose-built car that ups the ante and competes in the market is a good thing - it forces other manufacturers to up their game as well, and the only ones that win in the end is us - the consumers.

[CaptObvious75]

Originally Posted by SRTie4k I really hate it when people say stupid shit like this. Who cares what the base car is? The SRT-4 was always "just a neon", the SS/TC was "just a cobalt", the Evo is "just a lancer", the STI is "just an impreza"...and the MS3 is "just a 3". Who gives a fuck what the car is based on? Does that make it any less potent an adversary if it is tuned well, and performs well? Each and every one of those cars were rated best in class at one point or another. Take your head out of your ass and quit with the fanboy bullshit. A good, solid, purpose-built car that ups the ante and competes in the market is a good thing - it forces other manufacturers to up their game as well, and the only ones that win in the end is us - the consumers.

Amen brotha

Sent from my Atrix

[zmarko]

Originally Posted by xb2ms3 Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition.

I agree. I think another hatch with a large following will help us all in the long run.

Originally Posted by xb2ms3 They're raising the bar pretty high with the interior on the ST.

Interesting. I think the interior is absolutely dreadful.

[kashbringer]

Originally Posted by SRTie4k I really hate it when people say stupid shit like this. Who cares what the base car is? The SRT-4 was always "just a neon", the SS/TC was "just a cobalt", the Evo is "just a lancer", the STI is "just an impreza"...and the MS3 is "just a 3". Who gives a fuck what the car is based on? Does that make it any less potent an adversary if it is tuned well, and performs well? Each and every one of those cars were rated best in class at one point or another. Take your head out of your ass and quit with the fanboy bullshit. A good, solid, purpose-built car that ups the ante and competes in the market is a good thing - it forces other manufacturers to up their game as well, and the only ones that win in the end is us - the consumers.

I give a shit because the focus is an ugly ass base platform... Always has been. No fanboy shit here, fuck I almost bought a wrx then went over and got my ms3. No matter what the numbers the car will always just be an ugly focus to me. As I said it'll be good competition for us all but I would not buy it. You very well can't say you would buy a car you thought was ugly as fuck.