Scion FRS vs WRX vs MS3

[rice ahoy]

5 Minutes to a Faster 2013 Scion FR-S - YouTube
FRS needs stickier tires to get .6 seconds faster than our stock MS3.

Stock MS3 > stock FRS > WRX
Another win for our FWD MS3!

[BlueDmnSpeed]

hells yeah!!!

[breakfstincluded]

I'm going to show this to all the subaru fanboys i know.

[THE REAPER]

Good to know that our cars can handle their own against awd, and rwd

[dsmluck]

So this shows how big a difference tires make. Why not run all three on the star specs so that tires are no longer effecting the outcome and the chassis/suspension are able to be judged. I dont doubt the GenPu is faster than the WRX around a road course though. WRX is closer to the gen 1 MS3 in the handling department.

[THE REAPER]

They are probably trying to promote/justify toyota's new bastard child celica car and how even though it comes with no great options, you should still buy it because it will be faster than 2 other completly stock cars

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by breakfstincluded I'm going to show this to all the subaru fanboys i know.

Sure but realize that 95% of this forum has never actually tracked their car on a road course. Are the cars capable? Of course. But for what ever reason most people here try to get the MS3 to do something it honestly sucks at. Drag racing. Where is the fun in saying my car will beat your car on a road course when most people never have any intention of driving it on one. I hope comparos like this encourage more guys to track their cars at least once.

[breakfstincluded]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Sure but realize that 95% of this forum has never actually tracked their car on a road course. Are the cars capable? Of course. But for what ever reason most people here try to get the MS3 to do something it honestly sucks at. Drag racing. Where is the fun in saying my car will beat your car on a road course when most people never have any intention of driving it on one. I hope comparos like this encourage more guys to track their cars at least once.

lol maybe someday, I honestly do want to try autocross, especially before any modifications to suspension.

But I bought this car because it would be fun to beat more expensive cars on the highway in a fail wheel drive wagon, and still be able to pickup the kids from school without folding seats back for them to get to the back.

[CaptObvious75]

ms3 ftmfw! The FR-S needs to lose the Prius tires

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Sure but realize that 95% of this forum has never actually tracked their car on a road course. Are the cars capable? Of course. But for what ever reason most people here try to get the MS3 to do something it honestly sucks at. Drag racing. Where is the fun in saying my car will beat your car on a road course when most people never have any intention of driving it on one. I hope comparos like this encourage more guys to track their cars at least once.

I've been saying this for a while now about the road course. Everyone talking about how good the brz will be around a track but very few of them will ever see a track, so for the street I've always seen the ms3 as a better street car.

I'm one of the few that HAS tracked my car and it's been phenomenal, despite my poor tires. The best part is that I've driven it home from the track and it's been incredibly comfortable on the street too.

[BLK_MS3]

1- To have a fair test all cars need to bo on the same tire.
2- Why did Scion give the FR-S such a crap tire?
3- This also proves that larger diameter wheels are not better on a track in most cases then OEM diameter.
4- With that being said, I'll take a RWD car over AWD or FWD anyday.

BUT, this little MS3 never ceses to amaze me.

[speed_freak91]

Repost...

5 Minutes to a Faster 2013 Scion FR-S

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by dsmluck So this shows how big a difference tires make. Why not run all three on the star specs so that tires are no longer effecting the outcome and the chassis/suspension are able to be judged. I dont doubt the GenPu is faster than the WRX around a road course though. WRX is closer to the gen 1 MS3 in the handling department.

Because then the ms3 would win like it did wen they were all on stock tires, which are total shit on the pu's, and they wouldn't be able to advertise the scion.
Oh and FUCKING REPOST!

[meltdown100]

Can't find the vid on youtube anymore that I saw the other day but it indicated that they did that with the narrow rims and tires on purpose to make the car easy to drift, it breaks loose easily but because of good weight distribution is very easy to control and slide around corners in, etc.

[Tokay444]

They used low grip Prius tires so that drivers could explore the limits of the car at lower speeds.

[Easter Bunny]

and sticky tires would be more apt to expose any potential chassis faults.

[anavrinIV]

and because they can advertise better mpg numbers with rock hard rubber

[Neverlift]

Sorry to inform you that the frs/brz isnt built for ultimate grip out of the box. You dont need grip to have fun and I think that is the premise of the car.

The rear stock ms3 suspension is not something I would wabt to be comparing anything to either.

[cshunter]

They were probably also shifting at the wrong rpm's, as in most vids that star a Mazda Speed in it.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by another 6cms6 Sorry to inform you that the frs/brz isnt built for ultimate grip out of the box. You dont need grip to have fun and I think that is the premise of the car. The rear stock ms3 suspension is not something I would wabt to be comparing anything to either.

I only had experience with the 1st gen but it was very unsettled on anything but a perfectly flat road. I have heard that the genpu is better in this regard.

[breakfstincluded]

Originally Posted by BLK_MS3 4- With that being said, I'll take a RWD car over AWD or FWD anyday. BUT, this little MS3 never ceses to amaze me.

amen

[THE REAPER]

They should have just done a compare and contrast experiement of all cars straight from the factory around a track, and then put the same aftermarket tire on all of them and run them again. That way it would show the public what they would get if they took it off the lot and straight to the track and ran it with factory tires, and what the car is "capable" of with a performance tire on it. Rather than a biased limited experiment review like this. Who knows what the MS3 and the WRX could have done if they had a tire to keep it on track to where they could really let loose out there

[12blkms3]

Aren't our stock dunlops pretty good???
I honestly think the ms3 should have been faster, 63hp more with great handling!
It came down to the driver, they probly drove the speed the same way they did the rev happy frs!

[86azms3]

Originally Posted by 12blkms3 Aren't our stock dunlops pretty good??? I honestly think the ms3 should have been faster, 63hp more with great handling! It came down to the driver, they probly drove the speed the same way they did the rev happy frs!

No the tires are crap.

[Lex]

I've owned both the Bridgestones (Gen1) and Dunlops (Gen2) and the Bridgestones were a better tire.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by 86azms3 No the tires are crap.

The WRX uses similarly shit Dunlop SP Sport 01's. How hard would it be for manufacturers to make a deal with Hankook and throw some Ventus V12's as OEM tires. OEM tires are always utter garbage.

[SpdDemon89]

the wrx has shitty stock tires aswell. i believe if the wrx was geared like the speed 3 and fr-s it would be on top.

the shorter gear ratios and that extra gear mean you are usually always able to match match the gear to the perfect spot in the rev range, yet you still have the ability to hit it on the straights.

and i think the stock tires are pretty good for the speed(atleast in the summer heat)

[SpdDemon89]

to add, comparing a track car to cars that arent track is just stupid. sad thing is the speed and wrx can beat the fr-s in its own game. (and noone can say "well they cost alot more..." cuz they dont)

[THE REAPER]

Originally Posted by SpdDemon89 to add, comparing a track car to cars that arent track is just stupid. sad thing is the speed and wrx can beat the fr-s in its own game. (and noone can say "well they cost alot more..." cuz they dont)

Agreed. I realize this is the first year, and gen for Toyota's and Subaru's new rwd cars, but to me they failed hard with the lack of really doing anything with the car. For instance why would you not put the turbo boxer motor in there? That car with a 300hp turbo motor, would be fun. I know Toyota could think of something....hell they created the Supra. but instead they offer a N/A motor, with very few options for the car itself aside the standard flappy paddles and fancy headlights.

Its like a base Miata with a back seat

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by dsmluck The WRX uses similarly shit Dunlop SP Sport 01's. How hard would it be for manufacturers to make a deal with Hankook and throw some Ventus V12's as OEM tires. OEM tires are always utter garbage.

V12's aren't any good either, but no one is putting star specs or r-s3's on from the factory.
To get a better tire, you need to buy a real sports car.

Originally Posted by SpdDemon89 the wrx has shitty stock tires aswell. i believe if the wrx was geared like the speed 3 and fr-s it would be on top. the shorter gear ratios and that extra gear mean you are usually always able to match match the gear to the perfect spot in the rev range, yet you still have the ability to hit it on the straights. and i think the stock tires are pretty good for the speed(atleast in the summer heat)

I totally agree.
If you change the tranny, and the tires, the suspension and and the drivetrain and make the wrx a completely different car, it would be on top.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 V12's aren't any good either, but no one is putting star specs or r-s3's on from the factory. To get a better tire, you need to buy a real sports car. I totally agree. If you change the tranny, and the tires, the suspension and and the drivetrain and make the wrx a completely different car, it would be on top.

The V12's are much better than the stock tires on the Mazdaspeed 3 and the WRX. I would rather have better tires than the OEM garbage. Then again I forgot you were a pro race driver and you believe anything other than R-comps is for pussies.

Originally Posted by THE REAPER Agreed. I realize this is the first year, and gen for Toyota's and Subaru's new rwd cars, but to me they failed hard with the lack of really doing anything with the car. For instance why would you not put the turbo boxer motor in there? That car with a 300hp turbo motor, would be fun. I know Toyota could think of something....hell they created the Supra. but instead they offer a N/A motor, with very few options for the car itself aside the standard flappy paddles and fancy headlights. Its like a base Miata with a back seat

Agreed. I think the lack of a turbo motor from the get go was due to Toyota having a giant vagina and not wanting something boosted. Subaru will have a snail in there soon enough.

[Tokay444]

V12's aren't even on par with the potenzas that came on the Genwon.

[Easter Bunny]

Ditching the dunlops and going to continental dws all seasons was an upgrade on my pu.

[4G63]

Lol @ Toyota. If I wanted a Toyota I'd get a Camry:P

One of the magazines last month I believe, not sure if it was MotorTrend or Road & Track, did a comparison with the Toyota BRZ, Scion FRS, and the Subaru BRZ. The BRZ ass blasted the other two. Magazine comparisons like the video above always leave me puzzled cause they didn't pick the best car in that segment. Wonder how much money Scion gave them

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Ditching the dunlops and going to continental dws all seasons was an upgrade on my pu.

I've also had the DWS tires - and they're too soft for cornering. If we're talking drag racing then yes they are better.

[Fatguy729]

They didn't put the turbo boxer in it because the engine was designed from the ground up using Toyota's new pi/di technology. I'm guessing Subaru only did this joint venture so they could have access to the technology.


I'm willing to bet Subaru will be turning out some EPIC cars soon using it, but Toyota will continue to be pussies about it. Although I applaud Toyota for finally getting back into the"performance" game (unlike the rest of the ricer scion brand), I do not see them busting out with anything comparable to a supra.


The possibilities will be endless with Subaru + FI + DI/PI + a tuning solution (Cobb)!

[SpdDemon89]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 V12's aren't any good either, but no one is putting star specs or r-s3's on from the factory. To get a better tire, you need to buy a real sports car. I totally agree. If you change the tranny, and the tires, the suspension and and the drivetrain and make the wrx a completely different car, it would be on top.

i dont know if your trying to be a smart ass or what, but i didnt mean it like that. i only meant the wrx isnt geared for tracking. the track car is the sti. which is a better buy than the brz. im just simply saying they are comparing cars that aren't roadsters to a brand new roadster, built for only 1 thing. to make all you people buy it so that next year they make an sti model like they should have and everyone's stuck with the 200hp brz/frs because they wanted to drive something they thought noone else would have.


wrx/sti are better buys.
why you ask??

4 doors....thank you
awd......thank you
300 hp.....thank you
strong trans......thank you
decent brakes.....thank you
sedan or hatch.....thank you
straight line drag or track day you'll be a force to reckon......thank you
a car that sets records in stock trim for its price class and above......your welcome.

not to mention they changed the tires on the frs, so what if they put some tires on the speed or wrx.

i would not waste my money on the brz until they put some work into it. throw a little turbo powah in there and you have a golden opportunity to show off the new rx-7.

not to mention the hyundai beat it around the track......

[Tokay444]

You're*
Smartass=natural predator of dumbass.

It's a coupé.
Not a roadster.

Awd no thank you.
Since when does the wrx have a strong tranny?

What record does wrx/sti have in stock form?


I already stated if they had put the tires on the other two cars, the speed would have come out on top, as it did when they were on stock tires with the frs.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Lex I've also had the DWS tires - and they're too soft for cornering. If we're talking drag racing then yes they are better.

I kind of agree with that statement, while the sidewall is pretty soft and the feel is nowhere near the same, I feel that I the compound is better, even in the high heat we have had recently to the point where I can corner faster.

[Tokay444]

All season tires are just that. The worst possible option in all seasons.