In search of the truth (warning rant)
 

I know someone is going to groan at this, but I have to ask. Where does all the hatred of Mobil 1 stem from?

I have read stickies until my eyes have bled, and still don’t see conclusive evidence that any brand of oil is better for our cars then another.

Most postings on UOA are up to 5 years ago, on an oil recipe that is no longer relevant or recent postings are from someone say brand X is the shit. Those are my favorite because they are typically by owners that have never submitted an UOA.

What makes this challenging is I find someone that has been using, for instance, Mobil 1 for most of his car’s life, but his UOA are starting from 2008. I know that oil companies had to change the components they use in their mixtures, but I don’t know when that transitioned happened.

We put Pennzoil Platinum is up on pedestal, especially compared to Mobil 1, for its resistance to shearing. Yet for the UOAs out there, I don’t see it being resistant at all.

In fact I sent a sample of my PP 5w-30 to Blackstone Labs with only 1200 miles on it. And sure as shit it came back as being closer to a 20 weight oil. It makes me wonder what this oil would be like with another 1500 miles on it.

The next coveted oil is Shell Rotella T6. This one was on my short list, but as I read more I am not so sure. It looks like a lot people have bought into Zinc content as being extremely important, including myself. The problem is I have come across testing that shows this oil more towards the bottom.

Despite the fact that I have been using Mobil 1 for a longtime, I am not a Mobil fan boy.
I just want to run oil that provides the best protection available. I could give a crap less what the label says.

My car is due right now for an oil change, and I will be sending a sample to BL for UOA. Once that comes back I will be sure to share the results with the forum.

What I am need right now is some proof.

I wondered this too, not because I want to use it, but because I'm sure it is still better than using dino oil. I know that these oil's wether they be pure synthetic or dino mix undergo fuel dilution, but how much of that is from the nature of DI? Couldn't some of it be from tuning and fluctuating AFR's while adjusting for proper performance? I run Amsoil myself, but I've only got 5,000 miles on my genpu so I've got no facts to bring to the table unfortunately.

I used to use mobile 1 exclusively with their filter. By 3000 miles the oil was watered down and stunk like gasoline. Almost a year ago I switched to t6 on the recomandation of my tuner... My oil is as thick at 3000 miles as the day I put it in and the smell of gas is non existant. Thats all the proof I need.

This man speaks truth

Absolutely T6. Then again you want proof. I swear I read a thread somewhere (might not have been on here) that the rotella was tested and proven to protect against dilution better than any other brand...just wish I could find the thread...

Agreed.

I know what you mean by the smell of gas in the oil. My PP stunk and looked like ass after those 1200 miles.

For what it is worth, I have 3000 miles on my Mobil 1 right now. I pulled out the dipstick and smelled it right before writing this reply, and it looks and smells a heck of lot better than the PP did.

But I think we need to ask ourselves, should we be judging the quality of oil on aroma and presentation alone?

Dilution from fuel is not desirable, I don’t question that. But isn’t it possible that the T6 is diluted just as much as the others, but for some reason covers up more of the smell?

Think about it this way, if I was to compare my M1 with PP based on smell and color, than M1 is would clearly take first place.

I am really not sure what more proof you want. Being DI there is no way to eliminate sheering from fuel. But in the Oil sticky there is plenty of UOA results that show t6 has less fuel dilution than any other oil. I have had stock oil t6 and valvoline, they all fucking smell like gas after 3k, to me anyway. but from many threads and many gear heads on this site showing that t6 is the best to reduce this. that is all the proof i need.

There is some discussion about t6 not being good if you are running more than 50% e85. There seems to be some correlation of what oil being used to how quick the spill valve will stick, but i am not sure if anything conclusive has come out of that because not many run that much E

Ok fine t6 smells like roses and does a good job of covering up the smell of gas. It is still as viscous as when I put it in and nothing can "cover" that up. Unless someone is pouring maple syrup down my dipstick that I dont know about. And how might you say I know its more viscous, well I used my highly expensive test equipment called the 2 finger pinch. Squeeze some oil between your fingers and slowly pull them apart. The farther you get them with the fluid still sticking together the more viscous. Engines needs viscousity to lubricate correctly. Ever used lucas oil treatment on a car? That stuff is like straight molasses. Its really not that difficult man. Try them out yourself and you will not be dissapointed.
Also im not sure how modded you are but realize with the higher demands you ask of your car the more the oil will dilute and break down. If its bad when stock, imagine putting it under more stress.

A lot of people run 50/50 or higher alcohol and for them rotella isn't the best option, if my understanding of the sticking spv situation is correct.


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groaned because you said someone would

I can't remember when it was exactly, but Mobil 1 changed their additive

package, which included the reduction of ZDDP, which is one of the primary lubricants (combination of lubricants).

X2

also groaned because Mobil 1 is not full synthetic, its a partial synthetic blend sold as full. When you are buying Mobil 1 you are paying for all of their advertising, not the quality of oil.

Some additional relevant info. Thread thanks to Lex:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ern-oil-85945/

Thanks, good attention or bad attention, it’s all the same. LOL

I did read the link about the elimination of ZDDP, which should impact most oils available today.

Not knowing the time frame of the transition makes it tricky. There is a guy on here that had awesome results with M1 for years and years. But, he was probably running the older formula.

As far as paying for advertising, that is true for everything from gum to guns. That doesn’t mean it is an inferior product, it just means you may pay a little more for it.

I am going to put my money where my mouth is. For the next two oil changes I will run T6 and PP Ultra and send each one in for an analysis. By this summer I will have full reports on PP, M1, T6, and PP Ultra. I will do a similar test on my wife’s 2013 MS3.

I think this experiment will be a big help to others by providing accurate and actionable data that they can use for their own vehicles.

You guys should be looking at certifications when deciding on oil. Not all MOBIL 1 types are the same; the M1 5W-30 I currently use is Dexos1 certified.

I have a PowerPoint presentation on MSF somewhere that explains what's different about the new certification and why it's better for high Ethanol content fuel.

Your post here (with links you mentioned):

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml#post1325928

My oil is green.

Suck it.

Rob swooping down to save me from my laziness yet again. Thanks man!

Someone had to say it...

Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee (Tom Cruise): I think I'm entitled to them.
Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can't handle the truth!...
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
Jessep: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.
Kaffee: Did you order the code red?
Jessep: You're goddamn right I did!!

From a just released (today) Corksport newsletter signed by Derrick:

Why Oil Matters

All synthetic oils are not created equal. Here in America, we are at a disadvantage as to knowing what oils are synthetic and which are not. Due to a loophole in regulations and advertising, companies in America can advertise their group 3 oils (which start life as gasoline and are turned to liquid via hydrocracking) as fully synthetic. Many of these oils such as Royal Purple, Castrol Syntec, Mobil 1 cannot be called synthetic in other parts of the world where these things are taken much more seriously.

As such, we recommend group 4 and group 5 oils exclusively. Many oils like Redline, ELF (Total), Amsoil, Torco, and Castrol formulations from Europe are all good examples of this.

These oils are so important that every Volkswagen company (VW, Audi, Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.) REQUIRE their dealerships to use them exclusively. So when in doubt, you can always have your oil changed at one of those dealerships to make sure you are getting the best quality oil.

All oil MFGs were required to do this, because it was "decided" that ZDDP was more harmful to cats than it was helpful in protecting. This is one reason why T6 is great. It is a "diesel" oil, which is still allowed to have more ZDDP in it. I believe it is 1200PPM for diesel oils and 800PPM for other oils. ZDDP is known to be an anti-scuff additive in the oil, which essentially helps prevent wear.

Now, I'm not saying you can't find oils with more ZDDP, but that is what most OTS oils at the parts stores will contain. The spill valve problems are related to oil in general. Some have more problems than others when it comes to the spill valve sticking, but it is more something to do with the o-rings not keeping oil out like it should be. @Enki; can probably give more info on that.

I've attached an article about oil from the latest issue of Engine Professional from the AERA.


Edit: I guess I was a little late to the party... Lol. Anyways, this article is still a pretty good read.

I've confirmed that the sticky shit that causes spill valve issues is caused 100% by oil. Gasoline (or lower blends of E) simply prevent this sticky film from building up, but that is not the case with high blends of e85 or even pure E85.

Corn can not eat this film off, and nothing prevents it (I've tried a lot of shit).

I thought that the consensus was that certain oils (rotella in particular) caused this issue much faster than other brands...


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I used Mobil 1 5w-30 since the time I purchased the car. Every oil change it stunk to high hell of gas and was watery as can be after only 2500 miles (I changed at frequent intervals because of the dumb amount of fuel dilution).

About 6k miles ago I switched to Rotella T6. I changed it at 3k miles. It still had a golden color to it and only had a hint of a gassy smell. I'm taking it to 5k miles before changing it to see how it is then.


Rotella T6 is by far better than Mobil 1, IMO. Never used PP but until I start an E85 mix I will not go away from Rotella.

Just my .02

I believe that is the general consensus, but what @Enki; is saying, is that OIL in general is the problem. It shouldn't be getting where it is, and that is what causes the sticky spill valve. Rotella has been shown to be one of the worse cases. I would still stick with the T6 until you start getting pretty close to a 50/50 E85 mix. Anywhere above that, you may want to find an oil doesn't gum up the spill valve as quickly. There are a few suggestions in the thread that was linked earlier.

Not this fucking shit again. Man, this is getting fucking old.

All you wannabe scientists out there looking for some profound and detailed explanation on why a certain oil is better than others.

Look people, this shit is simple...

Rotella T6 and Pennzoil platinum/ultra offer the best protection against fuel dilution in the 2.3L MZR DISI motors.

It's been tested. It's been proven. Over and fucking over. By our very own members.

Mobil 1 sucks because it does really shitty against fuel dilution. Especially in a direct injection motor.

It's like the whole Royal purple bullshit with V8 guys. They think because it works so well in their motor that it'll work just as good for any other motor.

Just because Mobil 1 worked well in another car doesn't mean it will for this one.




On another note, that ELF euro synth is fucking good shit. Difficult to find and kind of pricey, but very good oil.

Ive always used AMSOIL in all my previous cars and Ive never noticed the stink. I have not put in the speed yet but its almost due.

The only thing that I care about is wear, and loss of compression. I am not a chemist, nor do I want to be. That is why I have never added anything to my oil, nor will I ever.

Questions regarding oil brands, viscosities, UOA, or whatever, will continue to come up for as long as we need to use it. Oil formulas change overtime and so will the results.

I could ask questions like, is PP is a true synthetic, or what is the ZDDP percentage in T6 but I don’t care. Actually, it’s not that don’t care, it’s just that the answers are meaningless.

The only truth is the UOA, and there just aren’t enough of using this tool over time to come to any real conclusions.

Oh, and dont get me started about marketing. I have yet to read one SME whitepaper on oil that was not written by someone who stands to profit from it. Kind of like K&N saying oiled air filters are better than paper, wow thats convenient.

We already know which oil to use it has been beat to death.

Got any nudes of this speed 3 driving wifey you speak of? May be able to make this thread useful after all.

Your not looking very hard then. I would be 70% or better members of this forum are running t6 or PP. Wanna know why. Because that has been proven the best.
@Raider; does this need to stay open?

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More ZDDP = Less wear, so no the amount of ZDDP is not meaningless. Did you read the article I posted? That is published by the American Engine Rebuilders Association. I'd say that's one of the least biased sources you will find as it's a non-profit organization and they don't mention a single brand in the article... I understand that you don't want to use T6 just because a few guys on the internet said so, but I'll tell you that I have T6 in my engine right now and I'm pretty damn confident I have bigger things to worry about... People have done UOAs and it being a diesel oil, has a higher concentration of ZDDP. If you're worried about wear, that's what you should be worried about. Here is a UOA that was done on some fresh Rotella T6.

http://home.earthlink.net/~alan.m.ro...lla5W-40T6.jpg

You can see that the ZDDP (Zinc) content is high, so T6 should have no problem protecting against wear. Diesels put way more stress on their engine internals than we do and that is what this oil was designed for.

Here is another UOA from a B5 S4 that ran it for 7K miles, still has a decent amount of the additive pack left and zinc content is still high.

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/x...l/f6b04163.png

Yes, that sample is from a different car, but it still proves how durable this oil really is.

:gives:

well now that that mystery is solved, let's move on to analyzing the benefits and drawbacks of lucas oil

So reading all of this and being half asleep I just had the best thought ever, use a quart of each of the top brands and call it done! :wall:

Penn Grade 1. Thank me later.

I would also like to point out that Rotella can be had at any Wal-mart for $23 bucks for a one gallon jug.

That is an absolute steal for how good that oil is.

Let's keep our excitement over that on the down low. We don't want Shell catching wind of it and jacking up their prices.

Pretty much the same price for penzoil platinum 5w30