Should I buy a MS3, STI, or????
 

Im trying to decide on our second car. I have a Forged internal Forester thats going to run 350+ HP and am looking for a daily driver for the wife. I like all wheel drive so Im a little hesitant with FWD only and Ive seen alot about torque steer. Other than that how is the overall quality of the car compared with Subaru's or anything for that matter in the $20K range? Would you guys buy another one or go with something else? I have not had my butt in one yet so I really only know what ive seen in reviews. Thanks for any input.

focus st for sure do it. now.:bigok:

Also I forgot that the car were going to look at has 22K miles and they are asking $20K. Most of the driving will be 70 miles a day on the freeway. Is it pretty good at 70 MPH? What are the RPM's at at 70 and 80?

Now thats one I hadn't thought of.

Test drive it and find out. If your budget is 20k, and you think a STi can be found in that price range worth purchasing, by all means, continue with your comparison. I highly doubt you want a 30k Focus... though it would be a decent car for the wife.

Good luck and let us know which way you go.

Dude, seriously. There are so many problems with this post.

1) READ BEFORE POSTING. There is a shit-load of information about reliability, the torque steer issue (which isn't an issue), etc.

2) You came to a MAZDASPEED forum to ask if you should buy this car or another? What kind of answers do you expect to get? Do you go to a Nike store and ask if the latest Adidas shoe is any good? Common sense, man. This website wouldn't have the members it does if we didn't like our own cars.

3) You admitted you've never sat in one and you want objective opinions? What if the seat is crazy comfy for someone else, but it turns out you hate it? Do test-drives before asking these questions.

Now that I've sufficiently welcomed you, let me be at least a little bit helpful. Here's the deal. The STI can't compare to the MS3. It's AWD and costs twice as much. The MS3's competitors are the GTI, Focus ST, and WRX.

0-60 Times:
WRX -> MS3 -> ST -> GTI

From 40MPH:
MS3 -> WRX -> ST -> GTI

In terms of Interior:
GTI -> ST -> MS3 -> every other car -> WRX

So pick which matters to you. And stop being a complete noob.

Don't buy for gas mileage (though it will be better than the STI). Highway MPG for the Speed3 is rated at 25 (since you clearly didn't read shit, you probably didn't know that). Revs at 75mph in 6th gear will be around 3200 (actually my only complaint about the car is that 6th gear isn't a true over-drive gear).

Search, read, donate. And buy a Speed3.

TIS

LOL, beware you will be flamed for this thread! But ill give you my .02 cents. I don't understand why you would go from AWD to FWD, if you read enough on the forum you will see that people do the opposite, they go from a speed3 to sti's, but mainly evo's. Maybe there's a slight less drivetrain loss but that also depends which subie diff's your comparing it to. A speed3 is a fast, fun and relatively cheap car. The torque steer is not bad, but can be fixed with stiffer motor mounts (see james barone racing). Its made fairly well, and so long as you don't drive it like an idiot can last a bit too. Go to a dealer and drive one, that's the only way you'll know what to get.

In my opinion I think you should test drive the cars you have in mind and go from there. The MS3 is a great car, don't let the torque steer scare you away. With a good winter wheel setup the MS3 does a great job in the snow, of course it won't be as superior as an AWD car, but you get the idea.

MS3 all the way, I've owned an 04 wrx, and a built 06 STI! Both were fun, but for the money and value I absolutely love my 13' MS3. I bought it brand new cheaper then you can (Generally) find a lower mileage 06/07 sti! :biggrin:

Well I will admit that I have not read enough and thats because the dealer is planning on bringing down the one I was interested in thats about 100 miles away and I wanted to get some info from current owners before I waste the dealers money transporting it. I am kind of short on time in that respect. I do appreciate the info you posted especially about that 6th not being an overdrive which is one of my major bitches with Subaru. As far as Im concerned if I had a pair of Nike's and someone asked me what I thought of them I would give them a straight answer. It should be no different whether its shoes or cars. while I may be a "noob" on the MS3 Im at least not a noob in life experience and general decency on an enthusiast forum.

If you're looking for general decency, you've come to the wrong place. We're a bunch of sick, angry, mean pieces of shit, but the knowledge about the platform on here is extraordinary if you have thick skin and can dish out what you get thrown at you.

Now, meet us in-person, and it's a different game altogether. Become a member here, be accepted as one of the family, and it's amazing what you'll get out of your time at MSF. I've only been here just longer than a year and I've already fallen in with some great people.

You've got to get through your trial by fire if you're going to last.

TIS

That is exactly the type of information I was looking for. Thank you. Its nice there is intelligent life on this board. I dont mind flamers they just confirm their juvenile thought process and insecurities by cussing and ranting. Makes me laugh really.

If your budget of 20k can be extended a bit more, I talked my local Mazda dealer down to 23750 out the door for my speed3. It doesn't have the tech package, but they come very well equipped for the pricing and being a "base" model!:fingersx:

Ya the one Im looking at isn't the Tech model either. They are asking $19,900 for it. Thanks for the input.

what year is it?

2010

Get an evo or an MS3.

I had a gen2 MS3 and would def buy another one

i KNOW most of us will tell you mazda SpEED!!

:hitwithrock:

i have owned a 06 and liked it, bought a new white genpu and LOVE IT!!!

the interiors not bad for base model IMO.

I can get a JDM 03 Evo with 50K at the same dealer for the same price. 7 years older and the wife isn't fond of it. Thats the problem.

Would you take your genpu over a 03 Evo?

Get a mini cooper S. It suites you.

Funny

Just found out that the EVO sold and hour ago. Oh well.

get a pontiac aztek, you can carry sodas in the middle console, and take it out its essentially a cooler. its sooo coool.

Doesn't seem like a terrible price, but I think most people will tell you to buy new. For reference though I paid $20,300 for mine with just under 30k on it. (Grant it that was almost a year ago now, and they offered me a really good price on my trade in).

Yay the flamers must have got off the school bus. Should be interesting now.

The wheels on the bus go beep beep beep.

tappy-tap-tappytalk

I wont ever pay for the depreciation off the lot on a new rig. Its just not necessary. If whoever owned it before went through the proper break in procedure then at 20K its just finding its legs.

1. Offer $19k.
2. Get the car.
3. Donate
4. Have fun!

All lined up for ya.

[QUOTE=faeker;1858391]The wheels on the bus go beep beep beep.

Oiteh cabron vuestros ruedas están destrozadas

Gotta disagree with Anitix87's interior assessment. I'd put the Focus ST 1st, and the GTI among the worst interiors ever put into a vehicle. EVER!

So the Focus interior is pretty nice huh? Im still researching them. Thats one thing I overlooked when we paid 23K for our Forester. It seemed that for that much money we got jipped in the comfort dept. I dont want to make the same mistake which is why Im hitting the forums. Thanks for the input.

See my sig? Yeah...that should tell you how I felt about the Scooby...owned it for about 5 months. Loved my old Cobalt SS though.

Let's see, you ask this on a forum full of ms3 owners.....get a Tiburon.

[quote=voodoolord;1858446]so, you call people immature about swearing and here you are calling me an asshole. methinks you'll get treated appropriately here. Now I think you'd be better off in a Fiat.

[quote=faeker;1858570]LOL! at least you read spanish, I think. Love the Fiat comment.

Well I guess I could have asked a bunch of Hyundai owners what they think about their MS3. That makes alot of sense huh.

Honestly the Focus ST looks pretty bad ass. I had not even heard of it until today. I appreciate the tips for sure.

meds kicked in; being nice for a moment.

there's a sister forum connected to this one dedicated to the ST platform.

Ha! your empathy and respect is kicking in. Thanks!

Shut your whore mouth and buy a MS3

Sent from GalaxyS3

Why do the guys from the North east seem to have the worst attitudes? Here in Oregon we have lots of guns. Maybe thats why were more laid back?

Probably too provocative and off topic. I used to live in Queens so I do know the attitude. To be honest part of my decision is based on how well the community relationship is on the forums. As good as nasioc is for information theres alot of immature users and that gives it a bad rep. forester.org has alot of really knowledgeable people and no flaming therefore a great rep as a valuable forum. Your forum represents your car and probably visa versa. so far have 15 positive and 7 negative responses not counting mine. oops make that 15 and 9.

I am confused, I thought respect was earned. Maybe I am a bigger faggot than OP.

who drives a speed any more.... get a Prius

It might look good and have a better interior but a speed smokes it there slow. And they have a stupid e diff instead of an LSD. If u plan on doing any tracking at all a ms3 is a much better choice IMHO.
Also the st is more expensive

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Yes you probably are.

I think that kind of dis was worn out a few post ago.

Dont be a pussy get a GTR and call it a day

Hell I forgot about that one! Thanks!

yeah no. geez, i actually make a nice post and you gotta be a smart ass. get back to shopping for the pink fiat.

Ill give you the break down here.

When people come in here asking questions like this, they get flamed like you are getting. Why? Must mazda guys will say mazda.

Ms3 is practical, affordable, and fun to drive. Once you become part of the community, you will be part of something that's more like a family.

We don't hold your hand here, you need thick skin. If you are lazy and don't read and ask the same question that has been answered, then no one will respect you.

Now SEARCH and you will realize why you should buy a MS3. Greatest example of how this community comes together is by checking out the Sandy thread.

I'm fucking done with this.

Sent from GalaxyS3

Why the fuck would you waste the money to build the motor on a forester? You need to make that family car your everyday car and buy a speed3 and make it your race car. I do not care how fast you think your forester will be, it will still be gay.

Nice. I would love to hear what your buds have to say when you tell them you got your doors blown off by a gay Forester lol! I think she looks pretty good.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG_0739-1.jpg
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG_0738-1.jpg

Oh by the way my Busa's faster than your SV too.
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/...d/IMG_0834.jpg

But that 'busa can't turn, and even if it could defy physics for a brief moment... 4 wheels > 2.

Welcome MS3 ftw. Nice forester by the way I've always liked your model/year with swaps. A stock turbo e85 ms3 will still probably pull you from a roll. Go test drive one and see if you like it!

Thats what I had heard before I rode it. It turns better than I thought and out runs anything on the flats. Check out some Busa cornering on youtube.

Thanks! The 07-08 is by far the best looking years. Mine came with the STI lip and wheels from the factory. The STI VF43, intercooler, steering rack, rear sway bar, Kartboy locking bolts, balanced crank, decked case, Manley rods, Wiseco pistons, ARP studs, ACL bearings, Crower springs, valves, keepers, ID 1000cc injectors, Perrin intake, Perrin crank pulley, Exedy race clutch, Invidia turbo back and Turbosmart Eboost street boost controller are all me.

You just called your own car gay. :squintfinger:

I really like the forester sti's. You have a nice list of parts on there. Now go 18g and make it a really fun car. And get a ms3 already....

I know I think after this build Im going to regret not getting the 18G. The swap up from the 43 should be pretty easy but Ill have to dyno tune it again. I went with the VF cause it was going to be the wifes ride but it will be mine if I get another car so maybe the 18G is the way to go. To be honest the Focus ST is looking pretty good. Im going to have to drive both.

Dude you still didn't answer my question. Why would you waste the money to build a motor in a car like that. If you would have said well I am gonna do some baja off road races with it then I would have been like oh okay that's cool. But trying to race that on the street will just get you laughed at even if you beat a few cars.

As for bikes I buy and sell them. I have had a dozen or so super sports in the last two years. I have had everything from a vfr400r to a zx14. So you can stop trying to measure dicks. Someone will always be faster than you. It does not change the fact you think your forester is worth pouring 1000's into to have 350+whp and still look like you should be driving in the desert or some mountain pass. Get over it you shoulda bought a wrx if you wanted a raced out subaru.

Opinions are like assholes. Every one has one and they all stink. For starters the curb weight is 100 lbs less than the STI. The motor is nearly identical with the STI before my build. A built Forester is as fast and handles as well as nearly anything on the road. Why not put the money in it? I like it. Is that good enough? Its my money how about that? Are you saying that if you put that money in your Mazda it would be better used? I hate to say it but even if you put that much in your Mazda it would still be less of a car than my Forester. I really dont know how you get off with that attitude considering what your driving. I think you all have made my mind up for me. thanks for the good input from the guys that offered it. Cya.

blah blah blah

Lol someone got thin skin. Go buy an ST you will fit with those idiots better anyway

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I'm another that went from subaru awd to speed fwd. For my DD needs and spirited highway runs it has no drawbacks over the WRX. But the interior and tranny are leaps and bounds better in the speed.

BTW does the wife need a turbo, why not regular 3, impreza, golf, ect?

Op is a faggot, we don't want your pussy ass here anyways. Mazdas are typically a drivers car. You own a fucking forester, should have bought a wrx wagon and not been such a fag. Anyways go but a gti for your wife it's a chicks car and you'll probably love it with you limp wrist.

All I see is a list of how much money you pissed away on a slow forester.

Might as well buy a big strap on for your wife with that MS3, since you'll be taking it up the ass when your wife has a faster car that can outhandle your faggy ass forester for less than 1/10th of the money you pissed away building that fagmobile.

Ironic isnt it, since you're from "Queens"

For some reason this thread makes me feel like this:

http://i.imgur.com/D7X2q.gif

Not sure what that means, but I think it has something to do with op causing me to lose brain cells.

I'm not one to flame, but if you are an experienced forum user, you should know that you can't just come in here and ask questions like that. I think we're all happy to share advice and comments, but you just gotta go about it the right way.

Purchasing my MS3 was the best car decision I've made so far. It being my daily driver, to me it's a spacious, gorgeous, comfortable, reliable powerhouse and still gets decent MPG freeway. You really can't go wrong with one.

DO IT!

where are you in oregon

Get the speed3 man...I'm pretty new to the speed family and I love it. It's affordable, fast, different, and practical. I've had my 2012 for 6 months and realized very quick that MSF and the community is one the best, most knowledged out there. Almost everybody on here is willing to help you with questions, comments, and concerns. Whether you plan on keeping it stock or tinkering with it, its an all around great car. Got it, FWD isn't as good as AWD but like stated above, with a decent wheel/tire setup you'll do fine in the snow. Torque steer, sure the car has it but that just makes it all the more fun. To me, it's a very personal car/driver kind of vehicle. But still being completely practical, lots of room if its ever needed, nice cozy seats, nice interior. Just an all around awesome vehicle. Plus my favorite, you don't see them every corner you turn. Unlike your SI's, Subaru's, and what have you.

Buy the PU!
Donate, search, and let MSF take your virgin soul :wank:

and let the wife take the forester:wink1:

I hope OP doesnt get a speed id feel degraded just by the thought of him owning one with so much stupidity its oozing out his asshole. Who the fuck builds a forester? You cant polish a turd

I owned a 03 Evo (450 whp), 03 G35 coupe, 2000 vr6 jetta, and now a 2010 ms3. When I was going to buy a new car this last time I was considering between a 06 xi evo w/ 40k miles or my MS3 with 33k miles and ended up going with the MS3 because the payments were 120.00 cheaper per month and insurance was 50 less per month (using as a secondary car).

The evo was great for speed and handling, but sucked for gas (@ 450 whp ~8mpg average). Looked amazing too. Maintenance was a bitch on it though for dealer quotes (timing belt ~800 in 92835 area). It had good trunk room and passenger room, but lacked interior creature comforts and had a minimalist approach so you more focus on the driving.

The G35 coupe was also shitty on gas with a 3.5L engine and a heavy foot I averaged 14 mpg mostly city. No passenger room for anyone over 5'8" in the back and one of the smallest trunks if you don't remove the spare. Drove nice and sounded nice though. Interior was amazing.

MS3 handles fairly well and gets me with a heavy foot about 22mpg average which is the highest from any of my cars thus far. Interior is pretty interesting to look at with the light up dash functions and has a good set-up with the buttons. Good passenger room and the hatchback is very useful. In terms of looks I personally am not very fond of it and my gf thinks it looks like a shrunk down version of an SUV, but oh well. I like the mpg and performance so far.

In the end of the day I wish I had gotten another evo just from the pure thrill of the drive. It is honestly a super car hiding in a sedan. For me my main concern is speed > handling > MPG > maintenance costs.

dont buy an MS3 buy an AMC grimlin our world s are about to be fucked for at least 5 years.... YAY OBAMA ... plus if you got a MS3 and spent 2k on it in bolt ons your wife would wax ur ass on the daily.

so what, thats like saying oh hey that turbo minivan just blew my doors off thats was sick.....no its still fucking gay. Buy a mazdaspeed 6 awd turbo. but i figured you probably want something with a warranty still?

OP, I work for Mazda/Subaru and a built Forester is truly faggoty, no matter how u try to spin it. That bitch can take u to the moon for all we give a fuck. Its still gay. Plus the interior on Subbies are shit. Well known fact. For the money, MS3 is a million times better than a Forester. AWD is only gonna give u a holeshot from a dig. Build an MS3 motor like you built your Forester and I guarantee that Forester will be eating shit in no time. U can call it flaming, I'm just being honest.

I thought I needed a wrx for the bad weathers in Chicago. And that's the only reason for getting the Subie, I can get four wheel motion and turbo! But my speed3 this winter has changed my opinion. You have one Subaru already....time to get into a mazdaspeed and join this great community. You won't regret it.

And don't forget to donate and read read read
:nutkick:

ahhahaah faggot OP built a forrester

Another one bites the dust!

The 2013 civic si looks pretty sharp

Tap tap taparoooo

Get her one of these, straight six and room for four, reliable as hell.

I find no thrill in having a computer do all the work for me. :puke:

wrong car for the job
 

if this is really just a commuter car, why would you want one of these? Why not almost anything else? I've campaigned variants of Mazdas, WRX's etc, they all have wonderful qualities as performance/competition vehicles, I have a '12 MS3 that is freaking magnificent, and yes, it has limitations that you have to deal with at 8/10s and above, as they all do, but in regard to almost all normal driving duties, these cars are simply more than most people need, the new sky active mazda 3 is a great car for most people, it handles much better than most cars in its segment and gets great mileage. (btw, I can get 30 mpg on the MS3 if i lug the engine on the freeway, which, given what the car can do, is simply amazing) You could also get a very nice late model Bimmer (I know, I know) but you could and they have ineffable (look this word up fellow knuckle draggers) balance voodoo, if that even matters here. And yes, they all can be made to be snow safe, etc. (torque steer only matters for people that shouldn't be driving the MS3 in the first place) And to be clear, the MS3 is a live beast, everything is "on" when driving this thing, you feel the road, heel-toe is ez pz, turn in, even with crap stock tires, uncanny, maybe the focus st does the same, its more or less the same car after all, but you can get a MS3 for 21k, which considerably changes the calculus here. Also, the mazda 3 chassis is tested as the safest out there now and mazda's are notoriously reliable generally. Read this review http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...eed3-take-two/ which pretty much sums up most reviews about this car.

seriously?

best looking year or not, it still looks like a fawkin boxed tampon.

I didn't think his forester looked too shabby. Of course I've always wanted to make an sti baja B-). I can't say I've spent a lot of time in any subaru so I have no clue about the interior.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I was talking more about the AWD/ weight distro/engine output

ITT: Bunch of people driving econobox hatches making fun of a dude in a CUV.

Guys, the Genpu looks like shit, get that through your heads.

If you care about performance at all, get the MS3. There is so much more knowledge and support for this platform than for the ST. Plus, the MS3 has so much more potential than the ST (ST has a smaller turbo, is less upgradable, etc.). If all you want is a decently fast comfortable daily driver and you don't care about making it faster, then you should just get the ST. This forum is almost completely performance-based and if you don't plan on modding/making your car faster you probably won't fit in here.

Oh, and the assholery you might experience on the forum keeps the quality up an prevents MSF from turning into a forum like mazdas247... If you're respectful and have a desire to learn about performance aspects of your car, this forum is about the greatest thing since sliced bread.

ST (us market) is like ms3 6 years ago, there was no intake for it yet 6 years ago. But @kmac; is fully bolted and big turbo and holy fuck his ST is crazy.

The looks card for GenPu is played out. It's grown on me and the white 2013 is sexy as Hell.

The STi is a lot of money for an awd ms3 with uncomfortable seats. It looks sick though.

If money isn't on objective go for the Sti.

I hate subi

You have 4 posts.

You have no avatar.

You are brown.

Yet you are making fun of someone.

Gtfo


Sent from GalaxyS3

Very entertaining.

Your on a mazda speed enthusiast site and your asking our opinion about the car we build and tune.

I hear the honda forums are much more welcoming- if you want a commuted look there.

FYHN

Use your head.

Just had to say. The Foresters are well respected. they were WRX killers in their day and with some mods where extremely fast. Had more potential than the 2.0 boxer as well. You can do tons to them to this day an Forester STI's will not get laughed at. Except by those who have no idea.

I had a forester XT I love it, I had an Duramax w/850 ftlb tq, loved it. I have a MS3 now, freaking love it.

It's all good :)

RE the Focus ST,

Yeah, If I was dead set on tuning I would stay away from the Focus for a bit, but as a stocker it's nice. No one really knows the Fuelling limitations and the K03 isn't helping anything....

SCT put out a dyno tune, looked amazing, then you realize it's running MI...and other stuff and is in no way representative of a tune. Frankly Until guys like LEX get to play with them I sure as hell wouldn't run a black box tune like the SCT.

@ Raider I hate your friggin arm-wrestle avatar....I just can't do breaks and dislocations for some reason and I gag just a little every time I see it out of the corner of my eye.

I can't freaking look away....snap....gag...rinse and repeat:tongue-tied:


HAHAHAHA

1981 AMC Spirit should do nicely..

[QUOTE=TheSaxton;1862854]Just had to say. The Foresters are well respected. they were WRX killers in their day and with some mods where extremely fast. Had more potential than the 2.0 boxer as well. You can do tons to them to this day an Forester STI's will not get laughed at. Except by those who have no idea.

I had a forester XT I love it, I had an Duramax w/850 ftlb tq, loved it. I have a MS3 now, freaking love it.

It's all good :)


Good post. Alot of people don't know anything about the FSTI and how far these cars can be built and modified. Your list of vehicles tracks mine to the T. I traded my 05 Duramax 3500 in on the 2011 MS3. Yes I said it I got the MS3. Got it for under 20K with 37K on it. Came with the Tech package too. The ST was nice but seemed a little cramped. The MS3 looks better in my opinion and it has decent power plus was 10K less. Thanks for the helpful posts.

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/...d/IMG_0894.jpg

Test drive a MS6

Congrats, that is a better deal than the 2010 you were looking at. I was cracking up when you said that you didn't want to take the hit on a new car, but you were going to pay new car price for a 3 year old car with 1/2 a warranty. You can get brand new w/o tech for under $22.

Congrats on the purchase. Read everything possible on the forum, once you realize how ridiculous the amount of helpful technical information there is here, DONATE! Also if you've spent 5 minutes on the forum already and curious to what your first mods should be, catch can's and motor mounts! Enjoy your ride! Cheers :beerchug:

OP- I do not even own a speed(saving to get one) this forum give amazing advice. You need tuff skin to last but if you get through that it is filled with a lot of guys with knowledge about the MS3. They provide knowledge that no dealership will tell you, the information provided on this site is what your looking for when you purchase a car and want to find out as much information about that car as possible.
If the car is going to be for your wife to use as a DD they why are you looking to get a performance car? If she's doing 70+ miles a day you might want to look for something that has good gas mileage since she's not going to be doing any work to the car.
P.S. why would you build a forester?

rofl at mazdaspeed peeps pushing new people to get a Ford on a mazdaspeed site.

[quote=voodoolord;1863140]Nice car.

I was looking at WRX in the 2011 range but found my mazdaspeed 3 and was on average 8k less than any thing I was looking at. I hadn't even considered one before I test drove it. I was impressed completely. Sure it's not AWD but as someone who lives in the most northern large city in North America aim uniquely equipped to answer the question of how good these are in snow.

...the answer? Short of an AWD this car is in the top 1% of 2 wheel drive cars in terms of snow performance. Why? One word LSD (not the drug ;) )

With two wheels going and traction control that isn't stepping in all the time to just stop one wheel I find this car unusually effective in winter.

Any how off topic but I know others will find this thread in search of a car.

Anyhow 8k less, service that's only 10min away. And cheaper to repair and fast as heck from a roll. Rolling acceleration is far more useful to me locally vs light to light. If I run into someone who wants to race there is a much better chance its from a roll.

Hard launches in my Forester XT while ridiculously effective made me cringe...you just know you took some years off the drive train....frankly 2wd is more than enough and the few guys I have driven in my car have been stunned by the performance. It's easy to forget that while there are faster cars in the world, a rarefied few have ever really been in something faster than what these cars do. I am talking about the average joe.