Stage 1 buildup with before and after dyno runs (Agile Automotive Performance)

[Captain KR]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Just ordered the Autotech upgraded internals for the CDFP from EdgeAutoSport woohoo! And I've got a couple people, to remain nameless for now, who are willing to help me through the process. It's like as soon as I donated everyone stopped being a dick to me :-P

That def helps people lighten up a lot. The brownie bashing is pretty hardcore on this website but not without good reason. You definitely had good intentions behind your cause but sometimes letting people who have done it before help you is the best way to go. Until I see agile automotive make some real power on a car in our platform and don't blow it to pieces I will fight to keep every Mazda away from them. and if you have to ask why.......because racecar

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Just ordered the Autotech upgraded internals for the CDFP from EdgeAutoSport woohoo! And I've got a couple people, to remain nameless for now, who are willing to help me through the process. It's like as soon as I donated everyone stopped being a dick to me :-P

Originally Posted by gitarpik at least nothing has broken completely, right? Even before you tested this hearsay about HPFP's, i realized from reading around that i shouldnt do anything until i can get a one along with SRI and AP (1,500$ investment) (and until warranty expires) thanks for making it even more obvious for me and grats on the donate love

The OP displayed one of the main reasons new guys are asked to donate. This site is not run by the vendors, it is run by the members.

What I mean by that is the members have ultimate say on what mods are good for the car, what companies make quality products, etc.

Reviews are unbiased this way, and mod paths, suggestions on who makes the best of a particular modification go uncensored, and we get the benefit of not making costly mistakes.

There are also a ton of how-to's that would pay for the donation 100's of times over in cost savings from either buying a shitty part, or paying a shitty shop to install them.

Also, if you notice, there isn't a bunch of banner ads all over the place.

[bigriver]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Just ordered the Autotech upgraded internals for the CDFP from EdgeAutoSport woohoo! And I've got a couple people, to remain nameless for now, who are willing to help me through the process. It's like as soon as I donated everyone stopped being a dick to me :-P

Naw, we can still be dicks, haha. Donating helps, but its more that you are on the right path and accepting advice from the guys. At the end of the day we all love this car and so everyone is passionate about doing things the right way based on years of tried and true experience from the collective group. Things get heated when a new guy comes in saying he wants to see dynos to prove if a mod really works or not. Plus modding is expensive so really, the guys also dont want to see cash being thrown away.

[makjur]

I plan on donating soon, for now just lurking reading and studying and posting here and there
not quite ready to start tweaking my new ms3, still getting a feel for it and enjoying the upgrade from a 1.8t gti

as for zoom zoom boom...
this guy seemed like he did everything right - Another Blown Turbo...
sri, ap, internals, rmm
but his turbo went puuuu

i thought all those mods were a good starting point and had to be done together
does turbos just go shit because they were going to eventually anyway?
His story makes me not want to touch my pu anymore and drive it like granny

[vrspeed10]

I thought there was another big shop outside of Baltimore on rt 40.. JE performance. I don't know if they are into Mazdas but I have seen a lot of thier work they do in magazines.

I have a 2010 w/ sri tip and AP and my hpfp crapped out so I ran stage 0 till I got my fp internals

[Captain KR]

Originally Posted by mrspeed10 I thought there was another big shop outside of Baltimore on rt 40.. JE performance. I don't know if they are into Mazdas but I have seen a lot of thier work they do in magazines. I have a 2010 w/ sri tip and AP and my hpfp crapped out so I ran stage 0 till I got my fp internals

The only Mazda specific place in md is CP-E..... as far as I know and I personally wouldn't let them work on my car. I have let one place do an alignment for me and that was IAG PERFORMANCE they are subaru specific but when I need my fenders rolled I will take it back to them. Other than that I will be the only one touching my car or my friends car....

[Elusivellama]

Originally Posted by gitarpik I plan on donating soon, for now just lurking reading and studying and posting here and there not quite ready to start tweaking my new ms3, still getting a feel for it and enjoying the upgrade from a 1.8t gti as for zoom zoom boom... this guy seemed like he did everything right - Another Blown Turbo... sri, ap, internals, rmm but his turbo went puuuu i thought all those mods were a good starting point and had to be done together does turbos just go shit because they were going to eventually anyway? His story makes me not want to touch my pu anymore and drive it like granny

Yet, in the same thread, is a guy with a genpu rolling over 80,000miles without an issue. Just drive the car, mod it responsibly, maintain the hell out of it and stop worry.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by gitarpik I plan on donating soon, for now just lurking reading and studying and posting here and there not quite ready to start tweaking my new ms3, still getting a feel for it and enjoying the upgrade from a 1.8t gti as for zoom zoom boom... this guy seemed like he did everything right - Another Blown Turbo... sri, ap, internals, rmm but his turbo went puuuu i thought all those mods were a good starting point and had to be done together does turbos just go shit because they were going to eventually anyway? His story makes me not want to touch my pu anymore and drive it like granny

Like ellusivellama said, this forum is filled with guys who are pushing the limits and turbo failures are few and far between.

If your turbo is going to fail, it is probably going to do so regardless of your mods, it will just fail later.

The number of modded ms3's having a blast vs. modded ms3's with k04 turbo failures is overwhelming, @ least imo.

[StayBroke]

If it fails its just an excuse to go big turbo, so dont worry about it.

[Elusivellama]

K04 TURBO REPORT FROM NEUSPEED

^ Useful info about the stock turbo. Also oil is extremely important to your turbo (duh) so make sure you're using at the very least a quality 5W-30 synth. Many people run Shell Rotella T6(5w-40), or Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30, and/or change oil much earlier than recommended in the manual. If you are unclear as to how a turbo works, go read up on it and you will appreciate the importance of quality fluid and maintenance. Don't use Mobil 1, reports suggest that our DI engines kill that oil.

[makjur]

Thanks for making sense out of this

[SofaKingAwesome]

Originally Posted by gitarpik I plan on donating soon, for now just lurking reading and studying and posting here and there not quite ready to start tweaking my new ms3, still getting a feel for it and enjoying the upgrade from a 1.8t gti as for zoom zoom boom... this guy seemed like he did everything right - Another Blown Turbo... sri, ap, internals, rmm but his turbo went puuuu i thought all those mods were a good starting point and had to be done together does turbos just go shit because they were going to eventually anyway? His story makes me not want to touch my pu anymore and drive it like granny

PS, zoom zoom boom refers to motors, not turbos.

Sent from my Evo 3D

[makjur]

Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome PS, zoom zoom boom refers to motors, not turbos

I would like to think I have done a lot of reading here, but I still havnt read about exactly what goes boom
fuel cut happens to prevent damage, as far as i know
does it go boom when fuel cut doesnt actually happen for some reason?
and what exactly goes boom? jumps timing?

and to repeat previous posts (want to make sure I got this strait)...
the turbos shit the bed because either they were going to already, and people sent them to early graves or they are pushing too much boost, and driving too hard for too long

[Elusivellama]

The latest zoom zoom boom I read about (only in the VIP section) was a textbook example of what happens when the recommended/tried and tested upgrade paths are ignored. You should donate and go read about it.

[fortressofcomfort]

Hey all,
While I wait for my CDFP internals to be installed, I went ahead and tried out three of the less aggressive Cobb maps to find one to use in the interim.

1) Stage1 w SRI, TIH, but with 91 octane instead of 93. I did not notice anything different about this map (compared to what I've been running, the Stage 1 w SRI, TIH and 93 octane). Sure enough I was able to recreate a low fuel pressure scenario. EDIT 2012-03-08: I did a manual comparison using ATR side-by-side between the 91 and 93 maps and the only differences are in the AFR ratios. The 93 drives them down to a fair enough 11.4 range while the 91 map drives them more conservatively into the upper 10s. I couldn't believe there was no difference in ignition timing. DAMMIT will someone create a .Net program to allow you to load 2 maps and show you the differences for f sake?

2) Economy + SF. This is the one that is rev limited to 4,800rpms, speed limited to 70mph, and boost limited to 12psi (at least that is what I logged). Car felt decent and no fuel pressure problems could be recreated. Fuel pressure stayed above 1,500psi at all times. I did not notice better fuel mileage however (using a short 10mi highway drive which isn't very representative so I really can't be sure about this).

3) Safe mode + SF. I got about 13.5psi sustained boost with this one, no fuel pressure problems, and the car felt stronger than ever. Oh and you have to download this map from Cobb's website as it does not come preloaded on the AP.

I did not try the stage0 map. I believe this one is a stock map and I wanted a map that takes the SF intake into account.

I am thinking that 13.5psi of boost with plenty of fuel pressure actually runs better and feels stronger then 16-17psi of boost and running the fuel pressure on the ragged edge, at least on these cars with the finicky direct injection logic. I find this interesting but not all that shocking after I thought about it for a while.

Anyway thought you might like to know this stuff. I am leaving the safe mode + SF map for now until I can get the internals. Seems that once fuel pressure drops below 1400psi then you don't know what you are going to get from the engine (including boom if you aren't paying attention to what the car is saying).

I'm thinking for those that want to get an AP.... Get internals first at least if you have a GenPu.

Cheers.

[fortressofcomfort]

Hey all... I know this is somewhat of an old thread now but I wanted to show an example of the difference a good CDFP makes and just how bad a brand new stock CDFP can be.

@wdawson4 and I installed new Autotech internals tonight. Well, he did most of the work. Not a particularly hard job but definitely time consuming... took us about 2 or 2.5 hours to complete the job. Thanks Will !

Anyway, we reflashed to stage1 + SF + TIH + 93 oct , the same map I was running before when I was having fuel cut. See a sample of the before and after logs below. Although this is only a sample around 4,700rpms, it is very representative of the entire WOT pull as a whole.


Before:
A/F Boost FP KR RPM Adv TPos%
9.19 12.97 752.72 0.00 4771 7.00 55.77

After:
A/F Boost
11.37 15.77 1770.85 0.00 4755 6.00 72.93

So as you can see, with NO other changes other than the upgraded fuel pump:
- A/F ratios are much more desirable at ~11:1 instead of pig rich 9:1
- Boost is actually maintained around 16psi which is what the Stage1 map is supposed to deliver
- Fuel Pressure, well obviously it is worlds better (the lowest we recorded was about 1670psi)
- Spark advance doesn't get "cut" anymore like it did with the bad fuel pump
- The Throttle Position doesn't get closed by the ECU; it maintains 75% (which is actually 100% when scaled up)

What does this mean? A bad fuel pump can:
- Cause your ECU to close the throttle
- Cause your ECU to dump too much fuel / run too rich
- Cause your ECU to retard spark advance
- Cause your ECU to cut boost

What does this mean?
Even if your car is running ok, it may not be running to its full potential if you have a bad CDFP. It is extremely important to monitor FP even with only an intake. I would say an AP and then internals if needed should be the #1 power upgrade for anyone.

The car feels SO much better. It pulls from 2,500 to 6,000 like nobodys business, one long smooth pull with no dips, choking, hesitations, nothing. Just very smooth power now.

I am so happy! Anyway, now on to a test pipe and stage 2 lol.

Hope this helps someone.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJeremy Anyone on here should know what turbo back exhaust is. You misread or didn't know the difference, its okay. Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

rghispanic88 is Florida's master dp installer (just about everyone in FL. hopes that he'll help them with theirs), the author of the best hpfp internals how to install thread (imo) and the author of the best spring install how to.

He does his homework.

[WhoIsJeremy]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 rghispanic88 is Florida's master dp installer (just about everyone in FL. hopes that he'll help them with theirs), the author of the best hpfp internals how to install thread (imo) and the author of the best spring install how to. He does his homework.

Did you not see the comment made before saying a turbo back only gets a gain of 5hp? He misread my post or didn't know the different between tbe and cbe. Never said he didn't know what he was doing.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by WhoIsJeremy Did you not see the comment made before saying a turbo back only gets a gain of 5hp? He misread my post or didn't know the different between tbe and cbe. Never said he didn't know what he was doing.

Not looking to argue Jeremy. My post was just to straighten out that RG knows his shit.

[WhoIsJeremy]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Not looking to argue Jeremy. My post was just to straighten out that RG knows his shit.

You can't just complain about someone's complaint and not expect them to argue. Especially when it's a little irish fuck. jk

I wasn't either. Just a little confused with his post.

[Onelovesoccer]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort @wdawson4 and I installed new Autotech internals tonight. Well, he did most of the work. Not a particularly hard job but definitely time consuming... took us about 2 or 2.5 hours to complete the job. Thanks Will !

i'll be making the trip up to MD for the same thing. haha

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Onelovesoccer i'll be making the trip up to MD for the same thing. haha

Oh? Is Will doing your install? Be sure to bring your AP with you. He's going to ask you to do a log up to 6k in 4th so I hope you don't mind driving 100mph somewhere

[Onelovesoccer]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Oh? Is Will doing your install? Be sure to bring your AP with you. He's going to ask you to do a log up to 6k in 4th so I hope you don't mind driving 100mph somewhere

yuppppp. as well as my plugs and TP. i have no issue doing some 4th gear WOT logs. i just finished my stage 1 tune with @atvfreek and had to do a ton! i'm sure Will can point out a decent road for me to do it on.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Onelovesoccer yuppppp. as well as my plugs and TP. i have no issue doing some 4th gear WOT logs. i just finished my stage 1 tune with @atvfreek and had to do a ton! i'm sure Will can point out a decent road for me to do it on.

Well then you are in good hands. Let me know how you like the TP; I want to do that soon. What kind are you installing?

[Onelovesoccer]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Well then you are in good hands. Let me know how you like the TP; I want to do that soon. What kind are you installing?

will do! i bought the catless UR testpipe after recommendations from quite a few people.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Onelovesoccer will do! i bought the catless UR testpipe after recommendations from quite a few people.

Sweet. So after install you'll still have the one cat correct? You aren't taking the one nearest the turbo out too right? Do you plan to try the AP OTS Stage 2 map as well as your etune? I'm interested because something like this is my next step as well.

[Captain KR]

Just gonna leave this here cough** cough** I know alot of people swear by test pipes but if you have the money this is make everything so much better.
CNT RACING 10-12 Mazdaspeed 3 Catted downpipe (76mm piping) Gen 2

[Onelovesoccer]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Sweet. So after install you'll still have the one cat correct? You aren't taking the one nearest the turbo out too right? Do you plan to try the AP OTS Stage 2 map as well as your etune? I'm interested because something like this is my next step as well.

correct, i plan on keeping one cat. after i get my TMIC (one day), I'll get the upper DP.

haven't decided on the tune question yet. i'm going to talk to justin and see what he thinks. either way, once my shit is on, we're going to start tuning again.

@wdawson4 haha yeah i know.

[rednofive]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Hey all... I know this is somewhat of an old thread now but <snip> What does this mean? Even if your car is running ok, it may not be running to its full potential if you have a bad CDFP. It is extremely important to monitor FP even with only an intake. I would say an AP and then internals if needed should be the #1 power upgrade for anyone. <snip> .

Thanks for posting to "somewhat of an old thread", as you said.
I just read the whole thread and it answered my question, so thanks for sharing your final results and conclusions.

To me, the answer is "rednofive's first power mod should be the Cobb AP".

The timing was unbelievably perfect for me. I'd like to share some info I got from Cobb this morning by phone, also.
Stick with me, this is on-topic because this thread is about someone (you) who chose to buy intake + TIP/TIH AND a Cobb AP.

I was just thinking about doing those mods this morning when I called Cobb to get more info than what was on their site, then I searched the MSF's and hit your post.
I had noticed on their website and their map info that the Cobb Map notes basically show the following in the boost curves (some approx here)
Stage 1 maps give 17 PSI peak with stock airbox and 93 octane (allowing for standard 10% ethanol mix)
Stage 1 maps give 16 PSI peak with intake + TIP (TIH) and 93 octane (allowing for standard 10% ethanol mix)

I was looking at this doc:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/v/accesspo...BASE_07_12.pdf

So, I wondered, less pressure * more intake volume and less restriction makes less boost than the stock airbox???
Maybe, but seems like the boost peak should still be the same or more, right?

I spoke to Chris at Cobb tuning because I had some questions about their "map notes".
I asked the following: what's the point of me buying an intake and TIP/TIH if the boost will be less than simply using the stock air box and filter?
Answer:
The boost is limited to prevent any issues with using the stock CDFP (camshaft-driven fuel-pump), but the turbocharger will work a little less to make 16 PSI and will make the same power/torque as if I was using only the stock airbox and 17PSI.

He then went on to say that I'd probably get a better all-around performance using the stock airbox and Cobb AP than using just the intake+TIP/TIH, though he said there is nothing wrong in using the intake+TIP/TIH without an AP.
Again, he affirmed that the AP smooths out the boost curve and extends it a bit and does a better job of keeping you safe - all for the same performance as if you'd upgraded the intakes.

So, based on what I just read from your experience and what I heard Chris say on the phone, it seems that if one just wants to make a "stage 1" mod that doesn't require a CDFP upgrade, it seems to me you don't need an intake and inlet upgrade, you only need the AP, until you decide to open up the back end, and THEN you need the intake+TIP/TIH to open up the front end to enable better flow through the motor and your back end (assuming it is opened up, too).

I hope this additional information is useful to someone else, so I've added some search targets:
intake TIP TIH versus vs with Cobb AP

flame away if you feel I misunderstood Chris's points on the phone.
I'm sure he got it right, I'm just not sure I learned it correctly...

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