Stock fuel pump limits

[eugenes18t]

I just picked up a 2010 MS3.
The car has a an ultimate cat back and I wanted to get the Cobb SRI.
But after lots of searching i am getting mixed results.
Lots of people state that i would need to get a HPFP for just an intake an others said that for just intake it is not needed.
I am perfectly happy with the cars power and just want the intake for the nice sound.
Do you guys think the car should be fine with SRI and CBE without the pump upgrade.

Also I heard issues with CObb throwing cels is there any reason for this?

Thanks.

[zkrick]

Good luck.

[m4tic]

you "heard" but didn't read?

This will not end well.

[speed23]

No CEL will occur with the cobb intake and it's highly unlikely that you would need a fuel pump with such minor mods.

[Vansquish]

Read the stickies here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f511/

When you've done that, see if you can answer your own question.

[eugenes18t]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Read the stickies here: http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f511/ When you've done that, see if you can answer your own question.

Like I said I have searched this forum and read probably 30 threads on this topic the problem is in each thread there seems to be 30 different opinions on the issue,

[Ex_WRX_driver]

Mods in sig, no pump, fine.

[ms3rick]

Make sure you have a monitoring device. :-)

[eugenes18t]

Originally Posted by ms3rick Make sure you have a monitoring device. :-)

Yeah I was thinking of picking up a scan gauge or some sort of OBD2 interface for the iphone.

I found it kind of odd the car does not have a temp gauge, actually did not realize this for first few hours of driving the car.

[ms3rick]

I have a SGII, works great theres a few X-codes on here so you can read everything... but the refresh is 1sec...

ultragauge is 40$ cheaper, reads all the same stuff, and 6 at a time, with a refresh of .3sec.
http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/index.htm

[bigriver]

Scangauge is good. All the obd2 interfaces for iphone suck because of response lags. The wireless ones tend to drop signals. I have a hard wire one which is okay but there is a lag.

[duappleganger]

OP basically you're not getting the answer you want. With just a CBE and SRI you would probably be fine but some peoples stock pumps have quit with as little as that. To be absolutely sure you need an Accessport and fuel pump internals. It's as simple as that, you are not going to get a yes or no answer on this.

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by eugenes18t Like I said I have searched this forum and read probably 30 threads on this topic the problem is in each thread there seems to be 30 different opinions on the issue,

You clearly haven't read enough if that's your answer.

The general consensus for the MS3 is that until you add a downpipe, or are running an E85 mix, you don't need to upgrade the HPFP. However, without a way to monitor and tune for the mods that you've got (even an SRI can cause problems), you will have no way to know that your pump is failing until you vent your block.

You're welcome.

[m4tic]

I think we are getting a little confused. On the genpu, the ecu strategy for handling the HPFP is very different than gen1. It makes the HPFP much more sensitive to simple flow mods. Something as simple as a Sri could cause the ecu to dump fuel and drop pressure. (depending on altitude and weather)

Your best bet is to get a monitoring device, like an AP, and see for yourself.

[manila]

Just get an AP to monitor. Then you can tune for your mods

[makjur]

Originally Posted by manilaMS12 Just get an AP to monitor. Then you can tune for your mods

upvote

[SpdDemon89]

Get an AP and autotechs. will make you car run right. if not, dont do anything to your car. just getting an intake wont help.
i had AP and sri+TIP and i was having problems. so just because one person says they were fine, doesnt mean you will be.

buy and ap and autotech internals, or buy a civic and sell the speed to someone who will run it right.

[Voltron]

2 months ago, I was running only a cobb sri and a tp. Came home from Long Island, started doing top end pulls with another member on the LIE. Car felt strong, pulled hard all the way to 150 3x, and then cel pops on. Plugged my buddies ap in, and code was engine too lean. That was all I need to see to buy internals and a ap.

The thing with these cars is, no 2 run alike. I knew plenty of guys who ran just a intake and tp, and never had issues. Also knew another guy who ran the same shit, and bought an ap, and one night doing logs, saw his shit drop to 1000 at wot. You could risk it, but this isn't the car to start cutting corners. These bitches are finicky. But then again, it's been awhile since a pretty stock pu popped a motor.

[ms3rick]

[QUOTE=voltron;1460311These bitches are finicky. But then again, it's been awhile since a pretty stock pu popped a motor.[/QUOTE]

FINICKY, be safe not sorry :-). If your going to run stock FP, get something to monitor.

[SpdDemon89]

Lets all just sit back and enjoy the movie.

[eugenes18t]

Originally Posted by SpdDemon89 Get an AP and autotechs. will make you car run right. if not, dont do anything to your car. just getting an intake wont help. i had AP and sri+TIP and i was having problems. so just because one person says they were fine, doesnt mean you will be. buy and ap and autotech internals, or buy a civic and sell the speed to someone who will run it right.

Wow great advice dude.
Also I am not sure but whats wrong with civics?
We have quite a few ST class civics in our SCCA division and they are quite fast and capable cars.

[SpdDemon89]

Originally Posted by eugenes18t Wow great advice dude. Also I am not sure but whats wrong with civics? We have quite a few ST class civics in our SCCA division and they are quite fast and capable cars.

I never said anything about speed. Its about having your car run well.
and you sir, will have a sick car. Either take the advice, or have a sick car.

i brought up the civic because your OP sounds like a civic post with the "intake and CBE only" and the general disregard to tuning.

i mean do whatever you want...but dont come on a forum, ask for help and answers, and then not listen. I had a problem and the people on this forum gave me ideas, and i followed them. the car is running GREAT!!!. read and learn baby

[eugenes18t]

Originally Posted by SpdDemon89 I never said anything about speed. Its about having your car run well. and you sir, will have a sick car. Either take the advice, or have a sick car. i brought up the civic because your OP sounds like a civic post with the "intake and CBE only" and the general disregard to tuning. i mean do whatever you want...but dont come on a forum, ask for help and answers, and then not listen. I had a problem and the people on this forum gave me ideas, and i followed them. the car is running GREAT!!!. read and learn baby

Fair enough, I mainly wanted the intake for the throttle response and quicker spool up. As I feel like the car has more than enough power for a DD.
I will look into getting a scan gauge and a drop in filter for now to see how the FP behaves and go from there.
Just dont want to spend 600 on AP if I am not going to turn the boost in the car up ever as i already have a truly fast car sitting in the garage for when the mod bug bites me again.

[cshunter]

Forum history is why there is dislike for Civics, well Honda in general. I have the Cobb SRI and was fine with it and never had any codes but had seen some dips down to 1590 or 1580. I do know someone who had fuel cut when they had added a TIH.
So it is your call on what you feel comfortable with, but Internals will make things safer.

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by Ex_WRX_driver Mods in sig, no pump, fine.

And how do you no that with no monitoring device ?

[Voltron]

Sole purpose of an ap is not to crank boost up, but to monitor what's going on, and to tune the car to its max potential. As for power stock, this must be your first car with capable power. My car felt pretty good stock too, until I met nator nj a few months back. Check sig nigha, that's a fun daily driver.

As for civics, nothing wrong with them aside from the fucking rice a roni asshats who fucked that whole scene up. Plenty of fast ass Hondas running around, they just got over shadowed and fucked by all the idiots who think a fartcan and strap on parts make tires explode when Vtak kick in. I'm a former Honda owner who bounced that scene in the early 2000's cause of that reason. But I'll tell you this, I had an all motor b series ek, and a turbo bubbleback, that would have raped my speed all day long. But ask me how much I put into them lol.

[SpdDemon89]

the corksport SRI+TIP and an AP will help with spool up, and it will make the car a decent DD. getting the internals will allow this to be safe.
even if the pump holds up now, it may not later on.

[Ex_WRX_driver]

Originally Posted by StayBroke And how do you no that with no monitoring device ?

30,000 miles with mods on it and still running. lol

[eugenes18t]

Originally Posted by voltron Sole purpose of an ap is not to crank boost up, but to monitor what's going on, and to tune the car to its max potential. As for power stock, this must be your first car with capable power. My car felt pretty good stock too, until I met nator nj a few months back. Check sig nigha, that's a fun daily driver. As for civics, nothing wrong with them aside from the fucking rice a roni asshats who fucked that whole scene up. Plenty of fast ass Hondas running around, they just got over shadowed and fucked by all the idiots who think a fartcan and strap on parts make tires explode when Vtak kick in. I'm a former Honda owner who bounced that scene in the early 2000's cause of that reason. But I'll tell you this, I had an all motor b series ek, and a turbo bubbleback, that would have raped my speed all day long. But ask me how much I put into them lol.

Its not really my first fast car. Its just i made the decision to try and keep the modification to drive train under control with this car. Dont want it to end up like my last DD which was a mk4 GTI with stage 3 turbo.
I also have a e30 BMW that I race with SSCCA in DSP class, so I want to mainly concentrate on that car as far as modifications go.

It just surprised me that for something as basic as an intake i would need to do so many supporting modifications.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by eugenes18t Its not really my first fast car. Its just i made the decision to try and keep the modification to drive train under control with this car. Dont want it to end up like my last DD which was a mk4 GTI with stage 3 turbo. I also have a e30 BMW that I race with SSCCA in DSP class, so I want to mainly concentrate on that car as far as modifications go. It just surprised me that for something as basic as an intake i would need to do so many supporting modifications.

LOL @your gti. sorry, that shit is gay. Obviously, you did what I did, just bought the car blind, and now youre finding out the hard way. A mazdaspeed is like a whore, you haz to pay to play.

[rfinkle2]

To confuse the situation even more...17 - 17.5 psi is the key boost level here (with a few exceptions).

The more flow, the more chance of spike, higher boost levels etc.

Here is the course of events that lead people to get internals:

1) install flow mod and flow mod increases boost > 17 psi
2) ecu dumps excess fuel due to ecu getting cranky @ <1600 psi fuel pressure
3) car runs silly rich (9.xx afr's rich)
4) flow mod $ wasted due to excessively rich afr's

- I have seen stock pumps fail @ < 17 psi too, but most will hold that level.

IMO, stay bone stock, or get an AP, and fuel pump internals.

[Voltron]

^^^^^^^^^ this guy knows what hes talkin about.

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by eugenes18t Also I am not sure but whats wrong with civics?

Where to begin....?

I'll just put it this way; for every 1 civic that is actually fast, there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 that aren't. They're owned by little fags and they like cars that sound like absolute shit.

[Voltron]

Lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing sexier than the sound of Vtak hittin and makin tires pop from powa.

[SpdDemon89]

hey now guys vtec is a serious thing....
the new si's even come with a Vtec gauge!!!!

great now these idiots are gonna think...
1. vtec is a/or is like a turbo
2. they will brag about their awesome boost gauge
3. they will try to brake boost
4. they will use it as an excuse when they lose to a speed 3
5. they will get an AP to "raise the limit"
6. they will occasionally monitor it to make sure it maintains normal "level".

another thing these guys do is just buy an intake and cbe lololol

@rfinkle2 is the man and he knows what hes talking about.

do the right thing man!!!

stage 3 turbo....sigh

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by Ex_WRX_driver 30,000 miles with mods on it and still running. lol

I'm not doubting you but you still don't no HOW well it is running tho do you?

[Voltron]

Fuck. I keep checking for a popped pu motor thread. I know its coming.

[eugenes18t]

Originally Posted by SpdDemon89 hey now guys vtec is a serious thing.... the new si's even come with a Vtec gauge!!!! great now these idiots are gonna think... 1. vtec is a/or is like a turbo 2. they will brag about their awesome boost gauge 3. they will try to brake boost 4. they will use it as an excuse when they lose to a speed 3 5. they will get an AP to "raise the limit" 6. they will occasionally monitor it to make sure it maintains normal "level". another thing these guys do is just buy an intake and cbe lololol @rfinkle2 is the man and he knows what hes talking about. do the right thing man!!! stage 3 turbo....sigh

By stage 3 I meant stage 3 APR

[jack_hammer]

you are looking for a cut and dry answer where there is not one. the reason some people say they're fine w/o a fuel pump while others say they need one is because every car is different.

the way to KNOW whether or not you need a fuel pump is to monitor. there is no way to predict with certainty. you can only speak in generalizations.

you don't need an AP to monitor, but you can monitor with AP. the cheap gauges will also monitor, but they do not datalog. if you don't do any tuning, you don't really need to datalog, though.

[TrueReddd]

For a CBE + SRI.....you will be fine. Not too many people have problems. I have a Dashhawk via OBDII and I have been watching it and nothing abnormal. Further to this I have installed CAI + TIP + TMIC+ 3' CBE and everything is fine.....no zoom zoom boom.
I think people over react too much regarding internals. But getting fuel internals would be a good idea for the long run if you plan on doing more more.....zoom.

Just my opinion. hahaha love this little dude.