Thinking about buying a MS3...need your help
 

Okay before you say "search is your friend" I have searched this to death on google, this forum and 8thcivic. I absolutely love the look of the Genpu...even the shit faced grin looks good to me. Here is my dilemma, and again I know this has been beat to death but the past threads are more "my car is faster" or "fuck VTEC" which I find humorous but doesn't answer my questions. I'm trying to decide between the MSP3 and an Si sedan.

Only a few things make me apprehensive about just going out and getting a slightly used speed. This is where I hope you guys can help me out. Reliability, I just got married so I can't afford to be fixing a new car all the time. I've read about stock motors "blowing" while driving down the road. Now from what I understand its from WOT in higher gears? I also read its mainly from lightly modded ones without an upgraded fuel pump? I don't plan on modding the car at all really (maybe SRI) beyond suspension. So how would reliability be? Also I've read a lot of complaints on the transmission being "clunky". How is the trans in the Gen2s?

What has me considering the Si is the reliability behind Honda. Also the transmission (although some have problems) is nice from the ones I've driven. Which car is faster isn't important to me. The handling, comfort and reliability is what matters most. This wouldn't be my first boosted car. I've owned 2 SRT4's and a GS-T so you guys don't think I'm so asshole buying a car I can't handle.

I've enjoyed reading through this forum. It seems to be a great community to be a part of and look forward to reading and appreciate any help other then "search" you can give me.

Buy the Honda, it won't just blow up going down the road. Plus it has VTEC. The time you save rebuilding motors can be spent reading.

Mazdaspeed protegé 3?
Dafuq?

if you aren't gonna mod it why buy it?

Honestly...

The Honda transmission feels better, and the engine is probably more reliable. But the MS3 out handles, out brakes, and out accelerates the Honda.

Styling and interior feel is personal preference.

If you really don't plan on doing any power mods at all and you don't care about speed, I might look into the Si or some other na car. The stuff you read about engines blowing up...depends on how the car has been treated. If it was modded properly, driven properly, and given a good tune then you don't have much to worry about. However, you are taking a risk buying a used ms3, I personally would not buy a boosted car used unless I was very familiar with the history and records or I had enough mechanical knowledge to know what to look for.

Thank you for some of your responses, I appreciate the unbiased thoughts and opinions. I never said I don't care about speed in general. Just which is faster between the two doesn't matter to me. ESP since IMO the Si is slow to begin with. I don't plan on modding the motor simply because of money but will enjoy the car for what it offers stock. To me it's faster then what I will need most of the time anyway. I do however care about handling which is why I would get a full suspension. Not just springs.

So for the people who said the Honda is more reliable, are you saying that even if I don't mod it I will have problems down the line? It's not my first boosted car so that doesn't deter me. I've had two srts, one which was stage 3 that I got tboned by drunk driver in. The other was just basic bolt ons and a map clamp. I bought my 2nd one stock (or so I thought) turned out to be abused so I got rid of it fast and I had a 97 gst with all the bolt ons and a 14b.

This is purely anecdotal, but I bought my car at 22K miles in 2009 and have put on 65K miles, and the only things that have gone out on it that WEREN'T due to me bearing the ever-living piss out of my car were the front struts and the MAP sensor.

But @silvapain; that Honda tranny won't handle 700whp, regardless of how it feels.

Better get a good alarm. Hondas are stolen more than Speeds.

Also, ms3= hatchback. Si= boring car.

Carry more crap in Speed.

Honda is overrated.

No you're right it won't...just like they sound like lawn mowers and can't handle torque either. Since it will never see anything near that whp I could give less then a fuck:shrug:

I agree...the speed looks better and has a nicer interior. My only worries were what I've heard and read. If there aren't any major things to be wary of with a stock ms3 then that is the car I prefer.

Stance it out yo.

Fa sho with rolled fendArs and butt secks camber so I look part beaner and blast reggaeton with mad bass :biggthumpup:

If you are passionate about your car, get the MS3. If you just want something that looks sporty and has a more plush ride, the Si is probably your car.

I would still be driving my Si if it had another 100hp/130tq... but it doesn't, and the reliability would go right out the window with an aftermarket FI setup.

While entirely subjective, the MS3 interior looks and feels much more upscale and the chassis feels a lot more rigid and refined. A lot of that is probably due to the low curb weight of the Si and its softer suspension - which you might appreciate if you want comfort and don't mind wallowing around corners.

Have you considered an Accord V6? You'd give up some cornering prowess but gain a lot of usable power and daily driving comfort.

I am a car enthusiast so I will enjoy the ms3 but just recently got married so I can't afford to mod the shit out of it. That's why I say it will remain unmolested for the most part. The only reason the si is the only other car I'm considering is because I won't buy domestic so no focus st and vdubs are unreliable (used to have a gti)

^^^This. But I will add that the MS3 will make you smile more every day than the Honda ever will as long as you own it.

Make sure you read @Raider's excellent used MS3 buying guide in his sig.

And just between you and me, I talk to my car now. I thank her for the great ride to and from work. The Si, I just closed the door and walked away. :wink1:

Thanks for the help my dude! I appreciate it

Well you're asking a biased group. Our slogan is Fuck Your Honda Nigga. What do you think we will say?

If you're a car enthusiast, get the MS3. All you'll need to do is rear motor mount, and rear sway bar. Possibly internals. But just those two alone will make you love the car.

OP signed up in 2010, whaaaaaa?
Took you 3 years to ask the question? :smokin:

MS3 > Si
Mod it properly = performs properly

I have the MS6 obviously, but I really dig the gen2. In my opinion its the best bang for the buck. You get more power, a great interior and space for just about the same price as an Si.

OP, I think the reliability of most cars; not all, is dependent on the driver. take care of your MS3 and it will take care of you...now quit being a puss and make the right call. you know you want to.

Awww, shit just got real. I haz rolled fendars bitch. But I also has H&R COs and that's the only way I could fit my 18x8.5" wheels with 245 series tires. Get the MS3. My MS6 has almost every suspension mod and is the most fun in a car I've ever had. Its even more fun than my old 16G VR4.

Now, these bitches require TLC, but given a little wrench time and proper maintenance and youll adopt our FYHN philosophy. Plus your family can grow into the MS3 if you have kids.

Also, if you are a real enthusiast, nothing beats NATOR! This is the tightest group of real enthusiasts ever. We don't hellaflush. Nothing goes on our cars that doesn't make them faster and funner-er.

I've been lurking for years...always been a fan of the ms3 but I bought a double cab v6 Tacoma for work. Thought I'd use it more being a fire fighter but not really much at all. Now the wife has a wrangler and I don't want the car payments and 2 cars that get truck gas mpg

Haha... I'm not biased - I just stepped up from that low rent feeling Honda. They are minimalists, and you can feel it in the car. Some people call it precision engineering, I call it getting by with as little as possible. Lighter weight and normally aspirated is going to equal less wear and greater reliability, but to me it just feels shitty when compared to a solid chassis like a VW or Mazda in this class.

If the VW made more power and didn't have a myriad of nagging issues, I might've gone that route. I've heard too many horror stories to roll those dice, one of them being from a close friend.

Bahaha had to bring it up with the hellaflush comment...the FYHN philosophy isn't new to me I'm an old dsm guy had a 7 bolt gst and 2 skittles so Hondas are nothing but A to B cars to me

Shit...you got me

As far as reliability the speed comes out on top without question.


There are people pushing700whp on a stock transmission except for the clutch, that should tell you how overengineered these cars are.



As far as the block goes, people push 350 all day without issues. There are a few zzb (zoom-zoom boom) around but that's usually from people who pushed the enveloped or tuned unproperly.


An unmolested Speed3 making ~225 whp will last way over 150k miles. I'm willing to bet your kids are going to be in middle school by the time you'll want to get rid of it.



Hondas on the other hand will handle 200k miles, but everything else will fall apart way before then.

I still miss my AWD TSi Talon. Unfortunately you can't find AWD bang for the buck like that any more or the 3100lb curb weight - the STI and Evo price tags have gone through the roof.

Then the choice is made. Also, even tho my fenders are rolled with pretty wide tires im perfectly aligned, NATOR style. I don't need -10°camber on a FWD street car.

Thanks for the great response...you answered my questions without being a cock masseuse and for that I thank you (tosh reference)

I agree...I actually looked for a gsx a few years back. It's a shame what those cars have become. I 6 bolt with a clipped and ported 14b would ride out. Those transmission would really piss me off though. They were the lulz

Gotta love tosh...


One more point to make, the Speed offers MUCH more storage/haul space than the Honda, have you sat in the back of those things?


Seriously, I've carried my cousin and her bf, plus FIVE fullsized luggage bags to the airport. It was a little tight, but we fit.

Still had enough power to beat a scion TC on the way there. (not by much LOL)

Try that in an Si...

Exactly nothing pissed me off more then said cars (mainly Hondas) sitting with tires like this //car\\

Yeah I'll probably have some little churrens sooner than later so that's a +

Maybe I can lend a bit of perspective, I am married with 3 kids at this point. My car addiction has been long and expensive. Let's run the list real quick. I've owned an 88 merkur xr4ti, 99 prelude type sh, 2000 type r ( wish I still had that car), 01 honda s2k, mazda mp3, mazdaspeed protege, mazdaspeed miata, 04wrx, 06 sti track prepped lots of track days and auto x, rx8 mistake,08 mazdaspeed 3, garage find 04 sti with 2100 miles, 11 wrx. Went to a cash car due to the need to purchase a new home while keeping the old home as a rental, due to the shit market. Got my money right and I'm buying another speed 3 next week. Can't beat the bang for the buck in this car period!

That's awesome...

Speed 3 without a doubt. I've driven the SI and it is a fun little car to drive. The seats fit well, the pedals are placed perfect for heel toe stuff and the shifting is great. Miata great. But it just doesn't hit like i wished it would. The acceleration gives the impression of fast but its just to soft.

Its the torque you get with a mazdaspeed. It just feels good and has a practicality to it. You don't have to ring the cars neck to get moving. That gutless honda requires all kinds of theatrics and it just gets old.

If i lost my six tomorrow i would be driving and MS3. Without a doubt.

On the Si. I had an amazing deal nailed down a few months back on a white 4 door for 19500 including doc fee. Even at that price I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. The car as a whole is sparse and benign as all hell. It had a limited slip, but a soccer moms suspension
Add in the rev hang issues and its a hell no. I have a good price of 24,200 including doc on an in transit speed with tech. package negotiated. The tech pack car for that kind of money.....the stock power plus the potential, plus all the extras, in my opinion can not be beat in our current market.

Dont let anybody fool you, The SI is a great car..... FOR A KID LIVING IN HIS PARENTS HOUSE
But if you want a real car get the MS3, This car is as reliable as you want it to be, you mod it the right way and take care of it, car will take care of you. Do the opposite and go ZZB.

I have always said this... there is no POS car but there are a lot of POS owners......(Generally lmao)


plus most newer cars still have low miles you can still get them under warranty.

one week after you buy yours and you will be like.... DAFUQ was I thinking about getting that SI, FYHN

I have 2 kids. I LOL at the guys at daycare unwilling to let go of their high school civics with 1993 American Racing wheels, and trying to cram 3 kids in the back seat like they are Romanian gymnasts. And then watching them try to stuff a 2 kid stroller in the trunk is just as entertaining.

Reason I went MS3 was for how well it was received for safety. Guys have had 60 mph head on impacts and survived, rollovers, and a bunch of other stuff, and have made it. I just honestly could not see any other 4 door hatchback at the time doing this.

Believe me, once you own the MS3, you spend the $25 for VIP, do the "married guy modding" (I have no $ either for stuff now) and score pre-owned parts for a fraction of the cost. Will save more than $25.

My thread on buying a used MS3 is also golden if you go that route.

So, there's an inherent dilemma here you may not be wary of. The Si will be a huge annoyance (unless you go Si Sedan) with its two doors, especially for child seats. The MS3 wins here, hands down.

However, the MS3 only has a two-star crash safety rating for rear occupants. If your new wife is like my girlfriend, she'll tell you in no uncertain terms that the future kids aren't allowed in the Speed.

Now, I know there are plenty of people who haul their kids around, but might be something to keep in mind.

TIS

IIHS-HLDI: Mazda 3 hatchback

Seems good to me.

I also look at the wrecked ones, too.
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