Trying to get over 300HP
 

So @phate said he could probably net me some more horses if I got on a dyno and tuned with him for a few hours ( 150 bucks an hour - sux )
Any other ways for me to get over 300 at this point staying cheap? Obviously BT, not in the budget.
Does a DP make much of a difference with an E85 tune with the stock turbo?
Would probably stick with a catted one if I did go that route, well, maybe not, would have to look into the inspection process for NY cars since I'm moving.
Ideas?
Keep in mind I'm cheap, just had to pay out of pocket for traveling models, and 2 more coming in this weekend.
I'll attach pics of said models, for your viewing enjoyment, and to say thanks in advance.

Intake, TIP, FMIC/TMIC can help too.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8oAR10IRbQ...3242838ac8.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D5e0XL3B12...ac7a33495f.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MM4SmH1Bte...f219bd35a7.jpg

Have an intake already, thought the FMIC didn't really help with the corn tune?

I think my brother @mingenyx was making close to 280-285 at the wheels prior to downpipe, but he had FMIC prior to that.

Corn prevents knock, but a cooler more dense charge is still getting more air in the cylinder and that means more power.

Adding pics was a nice touch sir. Sorry I have no good info to offer.

Donate mod, with my mods on the E85 tune in the cold im around 300, day time 290s this is on Vdyno 1.8.9 DynoJet Smoothing at 6

Like what @Raider said.... you'll need those too. But yah... DP will definitely help.

Get fully bolted and you should be able to make it

Eh, donate mod isn't happening this year for a while. Last year fine. It cost me too much in the for sale section.
Besides, with all the exclusive free porn I provide here on my NSFW thread, I should get a pass :naughty:

Intake, HPFP internals, DP, and AP and you can hit 300WHp no problem.

You're being held back by the stock downpipe.


Tapadatass

Yeah, actually changing out the DP, combined with a tune, is good for 25-30 hp. You want that exhaust flow moving as quickly as possible, and the stock design sucks.

If you eliminate both Cats you will get a CEL.

The AP can disable the codes. They will show up as 'not ready' if the state/municipality does an ECU test as part of emission inspections though.


Tapadatass

If you have an AP and download ATR you can opt to ignore those codes so you don't get a CEL

FapaCalk

Some may disagree, buuuuuuuuuuut, the best bang for your buck right now is rent the dyno for an hour. Even if you add a DP, @phate can only add so much timing on the street. You already have the corn, and he already has a good base tune. Guarantee one hour in the fyno and he gains you close to 30hp. No other mods needed. The stock DP actually flows pretty good. I only gained 7hp on a car that went from Stock DP to catless. We gained likes 25tq, but you are looking for hp at this point. The extra timing found on the dyno will get you there. And it will be cheaper than a DP+tune

Im confused as to how you have been creating threads since 08-19-2011 and don't know what is required to hit 300hp. I would see @Raider signature for a list of stickied threads that should be able to help you.

I know how to get to 300, was asking advice on which way to go now, the cheapest. Was really wondering how much the DP helped with the corn tune really. Trying to figure out if the cost was worth the price. If it's only 7hp'ish gains, then no, I would just go towards the dyno.

Lol Silva beat you to it! But yeah APs can filter out that code, and it isn't really an issue, if your state/town has no emissions testing.

Yes that's important too lol luckily for me I don't have to worry about emissions.

I made 295hp/325 tq prior to downpipe just test pipe on a mustang dyno. Front mt and e85 tho

Lex has gone over this with my car, I dont know what your G/S flow is(mines around 250s cold 238s hot).. For me a bigger TMIC/FMIC, and a lager Intake would net far more HP then DP... Downpipe would add more boost in higher RPM range, but would it be efficient? (this is on corn sri/tip/test pipe)

So my advice.. Open up your intake air > Dp. (Dyno time for both choices would be a great addition to extra power Phate could work some corn magic.)

i agree with @atvfreek, i have an UR catted DP, had two friends tuned by the same guy as me all on E85, one with catless, one with stock cat. We were all honestly so close in a race it realistically came down to whoever started first, when you're making the kind of torque E85 does a 10 whp difference is negligible between the cars. an intercooler of some sort, if not a front mount would be better than stock. Obviously your looking to keep this cheap so Top mount + E85 isnt a bad option, ran that for about a year before switching to front mount / BT.

If you wanna go cheap why not just get the ebay downpipe?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2

if he wants to stay catted a DP will run him a couple hundred, but you're right if he can go catless may as well.

I would tend to agree that if you want to build HP (as opposed to torque) why not just do it with the timing above 5,000rpms? The resolution of our ECU's timing maps are very good and most of us just plug in numbers at 1.75 that work and interpolate. Pretty crude when you really think about it. The reality is that the car is running all sorts of calculated loads during a real WOT run, especially above 5k so why not get into the nitty gritty and tune each individual cell? Even small improvements in the timing can net BIG results, more than say running an extra psi of boost at high rpms.

atvfreek nailed it. With E85, there are no power gains beyond intake/downpipe (dyno proven), and a downpipe is worth MAYBE 10hp after everything is tuned.

I've seen typical gains of 15-25hp with a 2 hour dyno session, with cars in a similar state to yours Dan.

I've also shown no airflow is lost with high BAT's...thread somewhere about that haha.

I was trying to work a deal with the tuning shop here with some web design or broadcast commercial work, for dyno time but they weren't having it.
Moving to NY this winter, my brother has some dyno friends there, so maybe we'll plan for it around then.

Thanks all for the help. And ya, I knew DP would help, but would it be enough to warrant the cost + labor? Meh.

hate to say this but there is no such thing as cheap hp. But thank you for creating this thread I am learning some good info.

You can easily have a high flow cat welded in. putting total price at around 150-180.. i dont remember the exact price of the ebay dp though.

Hmm, on my "Stockish" setup I am pulling just under 320 on VDyno 1.1.9, Smoothing 4 on 91. With Corn about 45 or so more. Of course that is with BAT's in the 105 to 150 range :(.

i am over 300whp will answer all your questions when you come to NY and visit us at our Thursday meets


















































provided the models come too, with minimal clothing

You're doing something wrong :)

No way a "Stockish" Genpu would put down 365 even with a DP/Meth/E85 all combined. But then you wouldn't be stockish...

Even then you might be looking at 330 if you don't go the NOS route.

I've seen his engine bay nothing but and intake and a ricer cf cold air box.... ;)

tapafuck

stock turbo isnt good for anything over ~330 regardless of fuel or mods (except nitrous)

on the ko4 max hp is right around 5k. so the more boost u can run in that region, givin the same timing on corn will net you some hp. some have achieved this with an intercooler with less pressure drop and or a downpipe. so those are the flow mods i would look at if u only have an intake. i would also agree getting on the dyno may be your cheapest bet to unlocking those horses

So true. I don't know why the damn car is so quiet either. ;)

OP, without a good tune, forget about getting over 300HP. You might have an easier time getting to 300 if you went with a SRI and TIP that is 3" or more. 1 step colder plugs help with KR at higher boost and timing.

He's stocking and holds full boost at redline! Look at stratifiedauto on Facebook, his dyno is posted.


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k some conflicting/incorrect info here

Short list to 300whp

intake
IC upgrade
DP (i was able to hit 305whp with a testpipe, but thats pushing the shit out of it)
CDFP
AP w/MSF tuning guru
1 step colder plugs
RMM
corn if available

Don't know what you are talking about Willis. ;)

Intake & Tip, 3"+ would be preferable.
93 Octane would help push you over the top.
30% E85 would definately push you over the top.
Tuning is absolutely necessary. I was only able to hit the 290's on 91 octane with the old configuration of the car and self tuning.

I think the power curve/power band is more important.

im at 325 on 93 with a cobb sri and tip, 3" isnt necessary

i also hold 19psi @ redline, im on my 3rd turbo but thats a whole different discussion

But on the corn right?

Ding we have a winner!

A peak of 300hp that falls off quickly on either side is not going to be fast.

A 280hp tune that holds it from 4500-6000rpms will be the faster car.

Oh and I got you all beat. 400whp on a K04. According to VDyno. It was a run down Pikes Peak near the bottom but who cares?

So many variables. Dyno to dyno, self-testing methodologies, settings differences, weather, a ringer, good fuel/bad fuel, fuel with octane booster in it, etc etc. That's why I say get the shit out on the street (or preferably the strip) and see what it will do. 2 cars side by side running down the same piece of asphalt; can't get any more closely matched for comparison than that.

No straight 93

Peak tq @ 4k - 360 lb-ft

300hp @ 4.5k

325hp @ 5500

300hp @ 6k

~280hp @ redline

Chassis dyno, 0 correction factor, 0 smoothing same one double and kmac both hit 500 on

I do have a good tune, just haven't sprung for the dyno yet, as my wife was up my ass on me spending money on the escort 9500ix and some new camera equipment.

I try to work on trade when possible, trying to hold out for a dyno shop that needs some work done before I shell out the cash.

*I think we about covered it here, the dyno finish for the tune is the next step for the bang for the buck. Now let me get back to editing my pron*

While I am all about getting back to porn, here are a few things to consider:

1. I am fairly certain your tuner gave you some suggestions to increase HP.
2. Since it appears that you are running a stock interfooler, you could probably pick up a used aftermarket TMIC that could put you over the top for $300 or less. You may or may not need to retune. Run some Logs and post them.
3. If you don't have them already, 1 step colder plugs could let you run more timing to get you over the hump. Your tuner can handle that for you.
Its like $40 for a set and make sure you gap them to .026 to .028.
4. You could wait till the ambient temperature drops 20 to 30 degrees. Turbos make more power in cooler weather.
5. You could install a new DP but it is a pain in the ass to install, will cost you a few hundred $, and you will need to retune to get that power.

That is all I have to get the power you want on a budget. If your tuner thinks he can get you more power for $150 on the Dyno, that seems like a bargain.

Honestly though, you have decent power for the mods you do have.

Notes in red.
@iggy097 - Let me know and we can do a remote dyno session :)

Phate, so in a nutshell, 30%+ E-85 eliminates the need for a FMIC and 1 step colder plugs?

From my experience, yes.

But, a lot of guys want to make good power on straight gas, as well, so they benefit from the extra parts when they're running it.

I never cared about making power on 93...it's used to get me to the next E85 station ;)

So for the K04 guys who wanna go cheap, E-85 lets them skip the plugs and FMIC.

So for someone who still has a K04 and already has the plugs and the FMIC, the difference in power going to E-85 will be much less than someone who has the stock plugs and a TMIC.

That explains the 45hp jump when I go from 91 to E-85 mix. Being in the hippy tree-hugger state, I figure E-85 would be more plentiful around here but it is not. I have to go 35 miles out of my way to get it :(.

Yep, you nailed it. E85 is the shortcut, lol.

on a dyno jet correct?
i have seen no such numbers on a mustang dyno

Here we go, for those that haven't seen it. This is buried in another good thread talking about gains from parts and whatnot:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml#post1389059

^^It explains why I say 'no gains beyond intake/downpipe' with E85.

I actually sold my ETS TMIC and I am going back to stock, as I saw literally NO performance improvement with the larger TMIC on 100% E85.


Tapadatass

My gs is so low 230-250s depending on temps even with e85 I think I would gain more power from tmic then dp


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g/s is not always a good indicator for power potential.

Good read, I really want a larger intake then cs, but having horrible luck and in California I have to follow fucking carb laws.. Thanks again for that link!


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Agreed. All things being equal (hardware and tune) it is a useful number to log and check. I always do. But think about it, that number represents the mass (amount) of air coming into the system; that's a measurement at the VERY BEGINNING of the air's travel through the system. And by system I mean the turbo, intercooler, manifolds, head, exhaust, plumbing, etc. etc. So a car with 230g/s could very well clock a car making 260g/s.

Boost but even moreso timing could radically change the motor's output irregardless of g/s. There is still a correlation but it isn't as direct. You can flow as much air (and therefore fuel) through the engine as you'd like; but how that air/fuel mixture is converted from potential chemical energy into mechanical energy (pistons pushing down on the rotating assembly) happens well after the MAF reading. There are many other variables that are "loosely" related to g/s readings but all in all it is a reasonable way to keep an eye on your engine's health.

So to some extent g/s is like the old adage "it's not how big you are, its how you use it." lol

lol, I wasn't even meaning that much. 230g/s is not the same as 230g/s in the next car. Hell, 230g/s isn't the same after you change hard parts sometimes ;) I just meant it's a very unreliable indicator. [And vice versa - I've had e85 cars on the dyno making similar power, but the difference in g/s is more significant than the difference in power.]

Then when you want to throw some eth or meth into the equation....it's very easy to skew these things.

That's why Dizzy is #1 in my book (just a tiny tiny bit ahead of other very good tuners like Hypnotic and ATVFreeks company and Stratified). I always learn something from Phates or Bucker's posts and they always seem to be in a good mood. I suppose I could say the same thing about Lex and Justin too. It shows their passion is true, their knowledge is bountiful, and taking time to work with the customer (in this sense, answering a question or comment on the forum) shows their true motivation.

By the way on vdyno my 230g/s on vd 1.8.9 dj smoothing 6 is 290hp hp and cold 250s is 308hp.


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http://www.moccforums.com/forums/ind...?topic=30303.0

They're saying they got this on 91...no way...

Every dyno reads differently. Do you know what shop it was at or what kind of dyno?

Guy love Cobb hard parts, I wonder if he dyno'd at church

tapafuck

My thought, exactly, haha.

To me just stating "STOCK EXHUAST" makes me believe he's under the impresion that its a major bottle neck but I've Subbed to that thread a while ago to se what becomes of it lol

tapafuck

Same here, that's why I bring a 5gallon and 1 gallon container and fill them up with corn, along with my tank, that way I only have to go out there once every three weeks, since I get about a week on a full tank.

to add to the g/s indicator being a bad benchmark

@daafish and I dynod same day,he was at 16psi or so and put down 29xhp

I push anywhere from 280g/s - 300 g/s depending on conditions @ 20-21psi

and that was only good for 25ish HP

the gains of running high boost on the k04 are crippled due to how far off the compressor island you get.

tbh i feel almost no difference between 3/4 throttle and WOT

i'm moving to san diego and pissed that the carb law applies to an intake too. i called up SURE and they stated they've had their entire Aeros line under going carb testing for about two years now. they hope it'll be certified by the end of 2012. i hope so, because i want the full3.

OOOOOOOO Me too! Be sure to check out Nator out here, we are pretty active!

haha.. lol

G/S is a crappy indicator car to car.

I know someone making 400 hp flowing ~ 330 g/s.

@fortressofcomfort :moon:

Yes, car to car it is a crappy indicator, just like dyno numbers.

Within the same car however, it could be used as part of a set of health measurements, just like dyno numbers, no? I dunno I always log it and check it.

I don't know where I said it is a useful value to compare car to car Rob :nana: You know how I hate these car to car number comparison threads.