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 Old 08-06-2018, 09:33 AM   #1
 
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Arrow Whats Next? HPFP or AP?

Currently installed a CS TIP & SRI and BPV. Had all three installed for a couple weeks now everything runs great, dont seem to have any fuel cut or any sort of issues at all. Should I get the HPFP next or an AP? Would it be better to get the AP to tune it and monitor fuel pressure and such, or just go straight to the HPFP for 'danger prevention' so to speak.

I have a 2010 MS3, thanks for opinions!
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 Old 08-06-2018, 09:48 AM   #2
 
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Originally Posted by Tru3 View Post
Currently installed a CS TIP & SRI and BPV. Had all three installed for a couple weeks now everything runs great, dont seem to have any fuel cut or any sort of issues at all. Should I get the HPFP next or an AP? Would it be better to get the AP to tune it and monitor fuel pressure and such, or just go straight to the HPFP for 'danger prevention' so to speak.

I have a 2010 MS3, thanks for opinions!
HPFP first. Then shortly after get the AP to monitor and tune. You can read around here why the upgraded fuel pump internals are so important.
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 Old 08-06-2018, 09:51 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
HPFP first. Then shortly after get the AP to monitor and tune. You can read around here why the upgraded fuel pump internals are so important.


Is it necessary at this point in time to get either of the two if Iím happy with my car the way it is? In the future if I want to mod more I would definitely get the HPFP before anything else


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 Old 08-06-2018, 11:17 AM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by Tru3 View Post
Is it necessary at this point in time to get either of the two if Iím happy with my car the way it is? In the future if I want to mod more I would definitely get the HPFP before anything else


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I think you need to spend some time here reading to understand the order and importance of things.

Your mods do not "require" the HPFP internals. However, it is cheap insurance you never drop below proper pressure levels when WOT. So just do it and be done with it.

Now if you want to go to a bigger than stock diameter intake and/or get more power then yes, you need a tuning tool. Either Cobb AP or Versatuner. Cobbs come loaded with OTS maps specific to your modifications. You will achieve higher boost (15 psi stock) and hence more power. There is more to it than that, but you get the picture.

The tuners here on this forum also offer OTS maps that are far better than Cobb. However a custom tune from one of them is always superior in terms of efficiency and power.
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 Old 08-06-2018, 11:38 AM   #5
 
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I'd say getting both a HPFP and AccessPort should be up there on your priority list. You'll probably be fine but without being able to monitor the stock pressure, you are running a little bit of a risk.
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 Old 08-06-2018, 11:13 PM   #6
 
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It should be noted that his mods added almost zero power. Yay load tune.
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 Old 08-07-2018, 06:09 AM   #7
 
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With respect dyno charts posted here show substantial power gains from intake alone, either SRI or CAI, typically +15 whp or a little more.

Gen 2 cars have fuel pressure issues with even modest mods, including just an intake. That pump is marginal with no mods on Gen 2. Then, there is the matter of eight years of wear on the OEM pump.

Were I OP, I'd upgrade the pump internals first. Now. Then consider a tune.
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 Old 08-07-2018, 06:19 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
With respect dyno charts posted here show substantial power gains from intake alone, either SRI or CAI, typically +15 whp or a little more.

Gen 2 cars have fuel pressure issues with even modest mods, including just an intake. That pump is marginal with no mods on Gen 2. Then, there is the matter of eight years of wear on the OEM pump.

Were I OP, I'd upgrade the pump internals first. Now. Then consider a tune.


Iím going to do both, pump first. According to cork sport website the Sri / tip is suppose to add 33hp and 25tq? Now rather or not that is with a tune they donít say


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 Old 08-07-2018, 09:18 AM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Tru3 View Post
Iím going to do both, pump first. According to cork sport website the Sri / tip is suppose to add 33hp and 25tq? Now rather or not that is with a tune they donít say


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It wont add that power until you put a tune on the car. If you get the Cobb AP just pick the OTS tune that most closely matches your mod list and flash it to your ECU. Takes minutes and then enjoy the new power.
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 Old 08-07-2018, 02:18 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Tru3 View Post
I’m going to do both, pump first. According to cork sport website the Sri / tip is suppose to add 33hp and 25tq? Now rather or not that is with a tune they don’t say


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No, you will not see anywhere close to 33 whp from an intake alone. Maybe half that. But, that's still decent for just replacing the restrictive stock air box and filter on an otherwise stock car.

I don't think there is any credible evidence that replacing the stock TIP with another actually makes more power on the stock K04 turbo running pump gas. As oddly shaped as the stock TIP is, it still flows more than the turbo can use. About all an aftermarket TIP can do is slightly improve spool up time, which is already lightning fast on the K04. At K04 power levels, the restrictions are in two places, the pre-maf intake and in the downpipe and midpipe low flow cats on the exhaust side.

The real gains for you will come from a good tune in conjunction with a good SRI or CAI intake. An aftermarket TIP does not hurt, it just does not really help on the K04 on pump gas.

Even so, neither an intake improvement nor a tune is safe, IMHO, until you first upgrade the pump internals. It only takes a split second for the engine to lean out and go boom, if fuel rail pressure drops. It can happen with absolutely no advance warning, but will show up on data logs if you were logging just before the catastrophic failure.

You will want to use your AP to log your fuel rail pressure before and after installation to make sure you did it right. But do NOT load a higher boost map until after you have first confirmed that your pump internal install was done correctly and that it is holding rail pressure at 1,700 psi or higher under all load conditions on your stock map before flashing to higher boost maps.

There is a natural tendency to throw multiple mods on these cars all at one time. Then when something goes amiss, you can't figure out what or why you have a problem and have multiple troubleshooting trails to follow. Slow it down and go one step at a time, confirm that it works as intended and then move to the next one.
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 Old 08-09-2018, 04:07 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
No, you will not see anywhere close to 33 whp from an intake alone. Maybe half that. But, that's still decent for just replacing the restrictive stock air box and filter on an otherwise stock car.

I don't think there is any credible evidence that replacing the stock TIP with another actually makes more power on the stock K04 turbo running pump gas. As oddly shaped as the stock TIP is, it still flows more than the turbo can use. About all an aftermarket TIP can do is slightly improve spool up time, which is already lightning fast on the K04. At K04 power levels, the restrictions are in two places, the pre-maf intake and in the downpipe and midpipe low flow cats on the exhaust side.

The real gains for you will come from a good tune in conjunction with a good SRI or CAI intake. An aftermarket TIP does not hurt, it just does not really help on the K04 on pump gas.

Even so, neither an intake improvement nor a tune is safe, IMHO, until you first upgrade the pump internals. It only takes a split second for the engine to lean out and go boom, if fuel rail pressure drops. It can happen with absolutely no advance warning, but will show up on data logs if you were logging just before the catastrophic failure.

You will want to use your AP to log your fuel rail pressure before and after installation to make sure you did it right. But do NOT load a higher boost map until after you have first confirmed that your pump internal install was done correctly and that it is holding rail pressure at 1,700 psi or higher under all load conditions on your stock map before flashing to higher boost maps.

There is a natural tendency to throw multiple mods on these cars all at one time. Then when something goes amiss, you can't figure out what or why you have a problem and have multiple troubleshooting trails to follow. Slow it down and go one step at a time, confirm that it works as intended and then move to the next one.


I appreciate your very detailed response! I ordered the HPFP and going to get an AP here also. So after installing the HPFP on the AP I just monitor the fuel pressure during idol, cruising and WOT? Just to make sure it donít go below 1700 or is there certain Ďtestsí to do


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 Old 08-09-2018, 07:26 PM   #12
 
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Basically, yes. I use a different logging system than AP, so you will want to read the AP logging threads to set up a logging file to cover what you want to monitor besides fuel rail pressure.

You can just real time view rail pressure while looking at it, but a drop in pressure can happen too fast to see. It may only show up on the log file.

Hopefully one of the hundreds of AP users here will come along and help you get started.
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 Old 08-10-2018, 06:30 AM   #13
 
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With his mods and HPFP, he really won't need to constantly look at fuel pressure. I'm full bolt on with a BNR S4 and making good power. I keep HPFP act. Pressure as a parameter on my AP, but I never really look at it unless I am logging. You will only be able to see drops and such when you look at the raw log data, it is 99% of the time too quick to notice on the accessport itself.

After install, keep an eye on pressure just to make sure you didn't bitch anything, and take it easy on the throttle and boost for a little while until you can make sure that the car is acting properly and not doing anything that might point to a bad install. Get that AP hooked up before the HPFP so you can monitor the pressure on first startup. Then go get a protune. You won't see the gains they are flaiming, but it never hurts to pick up a few extra ponies and help your engine breathe better. Good luck.

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With having the intake and especially the bpv, you want a tune. Sometimes with the intakes things get finnicky in the higher RPM band with it flowing more air. It won't hurt to get a tune and a maf Cal just to make sure everything is running as good as it can.

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Originally Posted by _Mazdarati View Post
With his mods and HPFP, he really won't need to constantly look at fuel pressure. I'm full bolt on with a BNR S4 and making good power. I keep HPFP act. Pressure as a parameter on my AP, but I never really look at it unless I am logging. You will only be able to see drops and such when you look at the raw log data, it is 99% of the time too quick to notice on the accessport itself.

After install, keep an eye on pressure just to make sure you didn't bitch anything, and take it easy on the throttle and boost for a little while until you can make sure that the car is acting properly and not doing anything that might point to a bad install. Get that AP hooked up before the HPFP so you can monitor the pressure on first startup. Then go get a protune. You won't see the gains they are flaiming, but it never hurts to pick up a few extra ponies and help your engine breathe better. Good luck.

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With having the intake and especially the bpv, you want a tune. Sometimes with the intakes things get finnicky in the higher RPM band with it flowing more air. It won't hurt to get a tune and a maf Cal just to make sure everything is running as good as it can.

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