Wheel spin in 1st through 3rd gears- darn FWD
 

So I'm relatively new to the FWD performance arena having grown up wrenching on Toyota MR2 turbos which honestly are a bitch to work on compared to the MS3 btw.

I bought a used 2013 tech package with salvage title and within 2 months I sufferedturbo failure and blue clouds of smoke.

I bought corksport turbo "package" including Access Port, High Pressure Fuel Pump internals, and the turbo itself. also bought colder spark plugs, 3-port boost controller, and a "full" intake including the intake and inlet - but it's still a shitty corksport regular 2.5 inch outer diameter or whatever stock intake size is. Oh and I bought a tune from Will Dawson at "Purpe Drank" tuning. (he was great to work with, btw)

So to summarize:
Intake + "SRI" (CS) + "TIP" (JBR)
Turbo, CS
spark plugs colder NGK,
fuel pump upgrade CS,
boost controller CS,
Tune from Will Dawson.

(stock exhaust, etc)


I see people with many more upgrades than me and I wonder: how are they putting down any additional power? I can get wheelspin if I mat the throttle in 3rd gear even at 40-50 mph. (!)




I have shitty tires on the car, so maybe this is the entirety of my problem and I'm an idiot for aksing this question. I will get Michelin Pilot Sport tires when I wear down these crappy new econo-tires thatthe previous owner put on right before the sale i'm tempted somtimes to just do a epic burnout but I'm not a rich man.

I was planning to buy a Corksport 3.5'' full intake and a "race pipe" to get rid of the 2nd catalytic converter and also a re-tune from Will.... but I'm now wondering what is the point of doing this? ----I already make way too much power for a FWD car at least with shitty tires.

I'm wondering - does everyone out there with big turbos (my corksport turbo is relatively small right?) just have wheel spin in every gear? are they doing burn-outs on the interstate? or are they running vastly superior tires and that will totally change my mind?

It's crazy how much wheelspin I'm encountering. New experience for me. Kind of fun, but also not as fast as my old MR2 or my dad's 300ZX when every run goes up in tire smoke.

Honestly, a lot of it is probably the tires...

I went from crappy kuhmos to hankook rs3's back when I had my 3071, and the difference was night and day...

The kuhmos would struggle in 4th (any sort of uneven surface or water and they'd spin), whilst the rs3's gripped in 3rd on the same tune... As for 1st and 2nd, that's going to require tune adjustments, as stock turbo on pump can easily overwhelm most tires in those gears

My current tune has been limited in 2nd, as I'll never go drag racing so I have no need for more power than I can put down on street tires... And on super sports I grip and go (first is still useless)

^^^ This is the reason. It sounds pretty commonsensical, doesn't it?

You also need a RMM. It will help a lot with wheel hop.

1.) You need tires. If you have the buget get wider wheels, or maybe run FDs with a really nice tire and a meaty sidewall.

2.) A BT almost helps with wheel spin to some degree. Its a slower spool and it comes into power later, which helps keep traction. Although at some point, the fucking tires are coming off and you're just gonna have to get over that.

3.) A tune can make a hell of a difference. Tell whichever tuner you go with, tell them that you want traction. Unfortunately, the sacrifice is power/power delivery, but grabbing with less power is still going to go faster than sitting there spinning with more power.

^^^ Before doing that last one, get some really nice tires first before you start correcting the tune. Don't dial your shit back on shitty tires. Otherwise, you'll have less power/aggression than you could have had, had you started tuning with good tires. Oh and, softer sidewall helps.

thank you guys. appreciate the tips!

Better motor mounts helped my traction slightly and also I noticed improvement a while back when I got coilovers and set them a little harder in the rear. That being said, a new pair of tires was the difference between spinning 5th and mostly holding third after the new set

Get Extreme Preformance category summer tires and your problem will probably be solved. You should also consider front struts from Bilstein or Koni with that RMM upgrade. Higher horsepower on FWD without corresponding traction and suspension upgrades is just wasting the power gains.

Even with my much more modest power mods, I was overpowering the front tires in the lower three gears and could burn through third on all season tires, even very good ones.

Look into the half dozen extreme prrformance tires out there. Tire Rack has comparison ratings and customer reviews. I went with Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R over the Michelin Sports because they are true EP tires. The Sports are not and do not compare to true EP tires. The AD08Rs have incredible pure dry traction and turn in sharpness and wet traction is superb. They are very close to R spec track tires. Another choive close to them would be Bridgestone RE-11A. EP tires have the softer, stickier compound you need. They will make little more noise, will have a stiffer ride and may not last as long, although mine have held up very well.

Tires.

Tires and driver mod.

Learn to roll into boost and find the point at which the tires break loose.

These posts always boggle my mind. If you're spinning tires, why not give it less throttle? Seems all too logical to me.

@WetzMS3; beat me to it. Just like he said, you need better tires. Possibly those with softer sidewalls as they seem to help with straight line acceleration. You also need to roll into it instead of just mashing the gas pedal. Our cars makes a lot of torque down low and mashing the gas pedal, along with the sudden weight transfer that lifts the front end of the car up, doesn't help the front tires gain traction. You need to drive this car like its a FWD car. I have stock size (225/40/18) all season tires and I don't have traction issues as long as I roll into the gas pedal.

Tires will help. I've tried PSS, NT05 and just went with the Conti DWs. I went with the 245 - 45 x 18. I've got rubbing issues, but the traction is better than my other tires. I think the taller and softer sidewalls are a major contributing factor. Even with the 340AA rating over the 200, they stick better. They also turn better than I'll ever need daily driving.

Plus all the other stuff. I could spin my other tires in 4th on rough cement roads, once I got the boost up. These don't do much spinning in third. I limit boost and load in the first 3 gears. That helps, but every time I'm racing someone, I get over excited and smoke the tires (that would be where the driver mod would help)

Actually feel faster with the tune keeping the hp down in the first 3 gears

Ambient temperature will have a lot to do with traction too. Not sure what temps you are experiencing at the moment, but that may be compounding your traction issues along with your shit tires.

Tune works better. You will be faster if you work to make your tune as efficient down low as possible, than you would be if you tried to modulate you're own throttle.

My goal was to back it down until I hooked, and then increase it until I started to barely break loose again. We're pretty much there, but I think Rich and I could get more out of it. I can stick most 2nd gear pulls if the ambient temp is above 50*. Then again, we never tried hard enough to fix 1st gear. I can go mostly ham, but not WOT.

There's still work to do, but last time we road tuned it was more for across the board than it was slow rolls. Regardless, I'm happy with my current situation in 2nd.

I have kind of changed positions on this over time. These days my mentality is to set up the tune so that it has a usable "midrange" where I can modulate the throttle for reducing boost in lower gears vs being locked into a lower boost level all the time and not being able to use the higher boost when my tires are hot or the road surface is good.

You can't be that poor if you just slapped a CS turbo on your car right out of the box. Burn those things to a crisp and then toss them in the trash. They are your biggest problem right now.

I don't recommend the PSS for straight line grip at all. They are a handling/lateral grip oriented tire. Very few street tires can keep up with them in the twisties. But the beefy, super-stiff sidewalls and lack of rubber in contact with the road on the inner edge hurts their straight-line big time. The continental DW's OTOH are great in a straight line. If that's what you're after.

I have plenty of midrange power. Only difference is I can only build 12psi in 2nd. I don't think I could use much more without it negatively effecting my traction.

But yeah, temperature change is a valid point. It may not be ideal for that, but I firmly believe its more ideal than modulating the throttle for the short period that is 2nd gear, in hopes of accelerating as quickly as possible. I'd prefer to stay pinned and more focused on my shift point and being able to FFS like I would any other gear.

Oh and Conti DW ftw.

good points - it has been between 10 degrees and 30 degrees so definitely a factor.

and truth be told I am New to the FWD scene and accustomed to mid-engine weight transfer helping me load the tires so i will have to learn to roll onto the throttle with more finesse.

I got excited against some tarted up Mustang and mashed the gas, I admit it. and it was cold. on shitty tires. I have a lot to learn.

I really appreciate the tire brand advice. I'm not sure what I'm most interested in - straight line speed or good lateral grip. I guess nowadays this car is mostly a highway assassin so I should probably get the best tire for straight line and high speed. Maybe the Continentals?

10 degrees and crappy tires...and there's even a question? Come back when it's wet or snowing and you can't take turns at the same speed....

Also @sheston; 245/45/18s are way too tall for this car

I hear you about the FWD man. Last 5 cars were BMW's so there definitely some getting used to but what I've heard the most about is upgrading the rear motor mount to reduce wheel hop. Thats definitely something you should have bought first a long with HPFP internals for your car.

No one mentioned suspension, and that's pretty disappointing. Yes, good tires help...but so does upgrading suspension.

Do you have any upgraded motor mounts on the car? Didn't see it mentioned in your list of mods lol. If you're putting 350wtq+ down and driving like an asshole be expecting poop juice from PMM in your engine bay soon lol. Motor mounts, better tires, suspension, done.

Tires, RMM, and suspension upgrades.

stock out and go back to rwd otherwise you'll never put your foot down with the wheel off-center again.

Get good performance tires and a please change your motor mounts. With a good rmm you will reduce some of the wheel hop and with better tires you will get way better grip.
By the way was your mr2 and your dads 300 zx engine build? Because with mods and tuning you should be able to take them. Ive raced mr2 and 300zx and pull them there's no way they
are faster than your car like you mentioned unless the engines were build and heavy mods were done to an engine level. The only advantage i see from them is the rwd. So in conclusion you should be running faster than your old mr2. Then again change tires and motor mounts and you will see what a big difference it makes on this car.

Tires made a huge difference for me. 1st is still tricky and I still get spin, but way better than it used to be. FWD unfortunately will never be perfect off the line.

Unfortunately that's something we can't change. Awd and rwd setup will always be better off the line over fwd. Hopefully mazda changes this setup to awd in the future. The only thing with this is that it will add a significant cost increase on the vehicle.
This is probably why @brucestopping; felt his old mr2 faster, mr2 is a rwd setup.

If you came from Bimmers, you should have known better. :)
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