Wow! 1900 miles and valves are caked

[vatordoc]

So...

Since I'm an asshole and I deserve it I dropped one of my shroud cover bolts. Fell between the starter and block and those of you who know it's impossible to get to without tearing shit out.
I tore what I had to to get the bolt out which included taking the IM off and with only 1985 miles on the car I was astounded at the cake of shit on the valves, I'm not talking just a scaling of carbon deposits but full on 1/32 - 1/16" caking of build-up with a defined, visible ledge where the valve seats.

This is a well known and a well discussed issue with our engine but it still made me stand back and think. I installed an OCC a few hundred miles ago and must say it is a must. I went with a PAE kit and was not blown away with it's fit and finish but looking at my intake valves and the cost of the kit I feel better knowing that it's there. I will be ordering a intake manifold gasket along with James Barones' EGR block off kit Monday after seeing this with my own eyes.

In short, OCC+EGR block=cleaner valves. OCC+EGR+50/50 Meth+Valve Breather mod=clean valves.

Pictures to come

[ruthless013]

really hope you meant 19,000 miles, otherwise at 25,000 miles im screwed.

[NCZ13]

If youre screwed, im taking two because Im at 52k.

We just got a new fuel induction service product for DI vehicles through my job since all the Hyundais are going DI. Apparently its a sort of foaming product at engine temperature, and is supposed to go up and clean the valves. The guy says its a great product and that the lexus store goes through them like water.

Ill post up when we get them in, should be this coming week.

[Cataphract_40]

Is it called BG Fuel/Air induction service?

[NCZ13]

Yeah BG is the company we deal with so its probably that.

Im skeptical about any product like this, but we will see. Our vendor seems like an honest guy.

[WRX_Fan_0717]

In for pics.

[Soto]

this guy posted 1900 miles.

If so, wtf

I have 1400 miles and have a OCC sitting here next to me waiting to be installed

Waiting for next Nator install day on the 30th, i might have to do it sooner then.....

[rtabagaboy]

In for pics and that BG crap.

[WRX_Fan_0717]

Jesus with the acronyms on this forum......

RMM, OCC, HPFP, CDFP, DDM HID, DHS, ADD, WTF....

[Boosted Beluga]

Shity man. In for pics

[Speeed3]

Picsssssss

[wolly6973]

j/k, it is good info, but seriously... PICS!!

[Nataphen]

Just think about how quickly your exhaust tips get dirty on this car, then think about the fact that the valves get even more of that shit on them than the exhaust tips. Meth, meth, meth...that's all you need to know. Alan's gen 1 had 60k miles on it, no OCC or EGR block, and seeing those valves made me wonder how the car was even still running. Nasty stuff.

[vatordoc]

Hard spot to get good pictures, I'll try better later.

[goodfella16]

occ? orange county choppers? i want in

[vatordoc]

Originally Posted by goodfella16 occ? orange county choppers? i want in

O.K.

[Soto]

Originally Posted by vatordoc Hard spot to get good pictures, I'll try better later.

So seriously 1,900 miles???

not 19k?

brb installing my OCC

or for you acronym hating fags

OIL CATCH CAN

[goodfella16]

im no AHF just un-informed

[Soto]

Originally Posted by goodfella16 im no AHF just un-informed

+1 for imagination

[Cataphract_40]

Originally Posted by Cataphract_40 Is it called BG Fuel/Air induction service?

Originally Posted by NCZ13 Yeah BG is the company we deal with so its probably that. Im skeptical about any product like this, but we will see. Our vendor seems like an honest guy.

Yep, I've had it done to my car. They insert an atomizer just before the throttle body and rev the engine to about 2000 rpm or so while they spray this stuff (BG 44k I think) into the intake manifold. I don't have before/after pics of my intake runners/valves so I can't comment on its effectiveness.

HOWEVER, I will say that BG 44k is great stuff, my pistons looked like shit with so much carbon caked on a few months back. I ran some 44k through the gas tank...voila...clean pistons.

[2007speed3]

So these commercials i hear on the radio for BG services isnt a crock of shit?

[NCZ13]

Im getting up there in mileage, its probably time for a good engine overhaul. Fluids, plugs, FIS, OCC. I was looking at the devils own site at the meth injection products. they arent too pricey. How often do the tanks need to be filled? Im hoping this year Ill be able to do an AP and DP

[Nataphen]

JacksonMS30 used his washer tank for meth, and he figured that he could do about 50 3rd or 4th gear pulls before needing to refill. I can't remember if it was 3rd or 4th, sorry.

[BLK_MS3]

Originally Posted by Cataphract_40 HOWEVER, I will say that BG 44k is great stuff, my pistons looked like shit with so much carbon caked on a few months back. I ran some 44k through the gas tank...voila...clean pistons.

So you dump it in like any typical fuel injector cleaner? Best place to get some?

Thanks.

[goodfella16]

Originally Posted by BLK MS3 So you dump it in like any typical fuel injector cleaner? Best place to get some? Thanks.

BG Products 44K Power Enhancer

[SpeedSixxx]

i'm sorry to burst your bubble brah but an OCC and deleting the egr won't dlo didly shit squat to prevent the carbon build up on the valves..

we have a DI car direct injection which means... it's not a PI car port injection..

with PI the fuel is sprayed into the intake manifold and hits the valves and the stay much cleaner much longer..

with the DI cars the fuel is sprayed right into the cylinder block bypassing the intake valves thus not cleaning them...

the only real way to keep your intake valves clean is to install a meth kit and spray at least once a week....

an egr delete will prevent your intake manifold from getting soot in it but can also cause knock in some cases as the egr is there to cool combustion temps...

hope my info was helpful...

[vatordoc]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx an egr delete will prevent your intake manifold from getting soot in it but can also cause knock in some cases as the egr is there to cool combustion temps... hope my info was helpful...

I thought the egr valve was only open upon cold engine start up and how does recirculating exhaust into the intake cool the combustion temps?

You should see the amount of oil in my intake manifold. I took delivery of the car with 10 miles and the occ went on at around 1600 miles. The build up is solely from blow-by and IMO our engine requires a catch can. My next mod will be and upgraded IC and meth injection.

[Nataphen]

EGR delete hasn't caused any knock for me, but SpeedSixx is right about the valves. Meth is the only answer there.

[cesaros]

Seafoam should clear that up lol

[Lex]

2 points:

1. OCC isn't going to resolve your problem

2. Methanol and a high quality oil will do much better. Further, use the stock washer tank for meth and T from the stock washer pump outlet. The meth pump draws right through it.

[Nataphen]

OCCs and EGR delete will only help with the intake manifold cleanliness, I wasn't trying to mislead anyone there. Sorry if it came across that way. Sea Foam is a great cleaner, but unfortunately, it doesn't stay on the valves long enough to clean hardly anything off, no matter where you put it.

[vatordoc]

Originally Posted by Nataphen EGR delete hasn't caused any knock for me, but SpeedSixx is right about the valves. Meth is the only answer there.

Good to know, I'm already trying to chase down random KR on my beta tune with Cobb. Logs included if anyone cares

Originally Posted by cesaros Seafoam should clear that up lol

Going to pick some up before I put the IM back on

Originally Posted by Lex 2 points: 1. OCC isn't going to resolve your problem 2. Methanol and a high quality oil will do much better. Further, use the stock washer tank for meth and T from the stock washer pump outlet. The meth pump draws right through it.

Where do you guys mount your pumps, looks like the drivers side has plenty of room? Just curious. I like the coolingmist kit with the S-HSV solenoid so far.

Both of these where done back to back same road 4 minutes apart. Nasty stuff

[speed23]

Might I suggest mopar combustion chamber cleaner/conditioner to clean the valves. That stuff is strong.....I put an old spark plug fouled with carbon in it for a few hours as a test and it was eating the carbon right off. For the record, I am not using the plug...was just a test to see how it disolved the carbon buildup. I think its better than seafoam myself.

[Nataphen]

Devil's Own is one of our vendors and they have a complete MS3 kit. On the meth install that I helped with, we removed the front bumper cover and installed the pump on the driver's outside corner frame rail end. There was plenty of room there, and if you run the wiring right, it's a super clean sleeper install.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by vatordoc I thought the egr valve was only open upon cold engine start up and how does recirculating exhaust into the intake cool the combustion temps?

the egr valve is open under cruise only.

it has nothing to do with start up or boost.


"When combustion temperatures exceed 2500 degree F., atmospheric nitrogen begins to react with oxygen during combustion. The result is various compounds called nitrogen oxides (NOX), which play a major role in urban air pollution. To reduce the formation of NOX, combustion temperatures must be kept below the NOX threshold. This is done by recirculating a small amount of exhaust through the "exhaust gas recirculation," or EGR. valve.

The EGR valve controls a small passageway between the intake and exhaust manifolds. When the valve opens, intake vacuum draws exhaust through the valve. This dilutes the incoming air/fuel mixture and has a quenching effect on combustion temperatures which keeps NOX within acceptable limits. As an added benefit, it also reduces the engine's octane requirements which lessens the danger of detonation (spark knock).

The EGR valve consists of a poppet valve and a vacuum diaphragm. When vacuum is applied to the EGR valve diaphragm, it pulls the valve open allowing exhaust to pass from the exhaust manifold into the intake manifold. Some engines have "positive backpressure" EGR valves, while others have "negative backpressure" EGR valves. Both types contain a second diaphragm that modulates the action of the valve. This prevents the valve from opening unless there is a certain level of exhaust backpressure in the system. EGR valves are calibrated for specific engine applications. The wrong valve may flow too much or not enough exhaust and cause emission, driveability and detonation problems.

EGR valves do not normally require maintenance or replacement for preventative maintenance. But the valve can become clogged with carbon deposits that cause it to stick or prevent it from closing properly. Dirty EGR valves can sometimes be cleaned, but replacement is necessary if the valve is defective.

Some newer engines are so clean from a NOX emissions standpoint that no EGR valve is required.'

[BlackMS3]

I'd hate to see mine at 120K miles....

[BLK_MS3]

Originally Posted by BlackMS3 I'd hate to see mine at 120K miles....

And ya know what, if your shits running good, don't worry about it.

[deyomatic]

Originally Posted by speed23 Might I suggest mopar combustion chamber cleaner/conditioner to clean the valves. That stuff is strong.....I put an old spark plug fouled with carbon in it for a few hours as a test and it was eating the carbon right off. For the record, I am not using the plug...was just a test to see how it disolved the carbon buildup. I think its better than seafoam myself.

I wondered about this stuff, too. A lot of people swear by it, and I've used it before but never took anything apart to see how well it worked. It seems like there should be a port somewhere to spray it in while it's running.

[speed23]

You can get it in the can too (like seafoam) not just in the spray. After watching the carbon caked plug in the cleaner, I have come to the conclusion that you need to allow that stuff to soak on the valves for way longer than 15 minutes to get that carbon off.....maybe more like a few hours or overnight......

[MATT DAMOND]

Yeah, adding an OCC won't do much for the cleanliness for the valves on these engines. It may, if your PCV valve has failed and the car is literally shooting oil on the valves, caking the oil to the hot valves over time. The main reason to have an OCC is keep the oily blow-by from going into the cylinders, potentially causing detonation and a slight loss in performance.

Meth isn't going to make your valves 100% spotless again either. It does help to prevent more possible build-up, by slightly saturating and cleaning the valves. If you're looking for shinny valves, the best solution with meth is a port injection set-up, ran often... very often.

From what I've personally seen on these engines, the only real solution is to actually take off the mani, and physically clean the valves. It's pretty easy to do, just very time consuming. I'm hoping to see if the stuff NCZ13's work is getting in, and if it really does clean the build-up. Most of those fuel cleaner machines do wonders on PI cars. I really don't know how well they work for DI, since no one has really done any before and after. Also, if you do a lot of city driving and idling, more valve build-up may occur. If you go WOT/are in boost often, your valves should have less build-up.

From what I've researched, for valve build-up on direct injection cars, we have the least amount of deposits sticking to our valves.