GI for 5th Port Ghes Injection

[Ziggo]

Here is where I bought mine from. Need a little less than 2 feet to get from the HPFP to down around the throttle body, so its ~7$ per kit.

Braided Stainless Steel Lines

[superskaterxes]

dustin,


this is what i bought for mine

JEGS Performance Products 100910 JEGS Pro-Flo 200 Series Braided Hose

[doubleflusher]

Stainless Steel Brake Lines

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes dustin, JEGS Performance Products 100910 JEGS Pro-Flo 200 Series Braided Hose

That one's nitrile. I would swap it out with teflon at some point so you don't have to worry about degradation or gunking anything up.

Originally Posted by Ziggo Here is where I bought mine from. Need a little less than 2 feet to get from the HPFP to down around the throttle body, so its ~7$ per kit. Braided Stainless Steel Lines

Originally Posted by doubleflusher Stainless Steel Brake Lines

Love both you guys.

[mtnrunner]

If you need more monies for the added cost let me know so i can pay you more pennies.

[djuosnteisn]

Siliconeintakes.com was more in line with what i had hoped for. So no need for more money.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn That one's nitrile. I would swap it out with teflon at some point so you don't have to worry about degradation or gunking anything up. Love both you guys.

it says its compatible with alcohols (including methanol) [which we all know is more corrosive then ethanol] so why wont it work?

[djuosnteisn]

Meh, i've only read bad things about it, despite what their ad says. YMMV.

I'll be using PTFE hoses in the kit.

[Ziggo]

Teflon is just the brand name for PTFE.


Zigatapatalka

[silvapain]

Polytetrafluoroethylene bitches!


Tapadatass

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Teflon is just the brand name for PTFE. Zigatapatalka

Since my plant makes a variety of Teflon® films and coated products, I can mention that there are lots of varieties of "Teflon", with considerably dissimilar properties..

FEP, PFA, PTFE are the main groupings, but even within those are many different grades.

Just FYI...

Fluorinated ethylene propylene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fluorinated_ethylene_propylene

Perfluoroalkoxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perfluoroalkoxy

Polytetrafluoroethylene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PTFE

[Dano]

OMG!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano OMG!

Chemical Engineering FTMFW!

[superskaterxes]

im having a REALLY hard time finding one article that says nitrile is bad to use with E85.

here's one from Gates that explains how they tested their hoses and say that nitrile is compatible with E85.

http://www.gates.com/oreilly/tech_ti...patibility.pdf



and i think the most convincing article is from goodyear. here's a blurb about the FUEL PUMPING HOSES they use at gas stations for E85. take a look at what their lined with.....


Flexsteel® Futura


i dont think i have ever been to a gas station and seen another hose besides goodyear on the pumps. not trying to knock your solution dustin but if people can save using nitrile theres no real reason not to use it.

i also called jegs tech line and they confirmed they have never heard of someone even in their pro drag cars having a problem with E85/methanol using their 200 series hoses.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Chemical Engineering FTMFW!

hahahaha

it was just too funny to let go...you 3 guys in a row and your chem talk...lol

and of course you took it to the next level...which was expected

[SilverDemon]

Zoisaojlkasjdfaokdijkdlene <---------see, I can type like I am a chemical engineer, as long as I put the suffix of "lene" behind the word it sounds important.

I must go bang on a rock now.....

[djuosnteisn]

Anthony, i'm not saying your lines are gonna leak, or that Jegs is full of it. All i'm saying is i've read enough questionable statements about nitrile that i'm not going to use it. You can use it all you want man, no big deal. And it'll probably work just fine for years to come.

Here's just a few articles from 10 minutes on google:

Some quotes:

Ethanol is highly corrosive. many modern cars use nitrile fuel lines instead of the old neoprene. That helps with 10% ethanol content. Even the nitrile lines give up with high concentrations of ethanol.

E46Fanatics - View Single Post - Who runs their nonM E46 with E85 ?


Select Buna-N (nitrile) and check out the ethanol resistance on this site, it gets a C grade (PTFE gets an A):
Chemical Compatibility Database from Cole-Parmer


This article suggests added precaution when running nitrile, at least routine inspection:
Performance Fuel Hoses - Hot Rod Magazine


Emphasis on "resistance to low levels of ethanol" in this article:

By "75, car manufacturers had updated soft fuel system parts from Neoprene to Nitrile (a.k.a. Buna-N) that made them resistant to low levels of ethanol.

FINESSE: A guide to Ethanol blended fuels


And from du pont's own mouth (which is probably somewhat biased):
Fuel System Components and Aggressive Biofuels | DuPont Automotive

[silvapain]

Dustin, I looked Buna-N up a while ago for HPFP O-rings, and according to my research it was very compatible with Ethyl Alcohol (Ethanol)

General Chemical Resistance Guide

Select 'Ethyl Alcohol'.

EDIT: also here
http://www.efunda.com/designstandard...SC=Ethanol#mat

[djuosnteisn]

Yeah, i know, i've seen lots of mixed reports of it. Lots of articles saying it's fine, even in high concentrations. Lots of articles saying it's only okay for smaller concentrations.

I'm not a chem-e, and don't know what to trust, so i simply dislike the fact that there's so much wish wash in the results.

My gut tells me there's nothing wrong with running it, but my brain tells me not to risk it with the kits. So PTFE it is.

[Dano]

who's building this kit again?

alright then...if he wants to use Polytetrafluoroethylene lined lines its his rodeo...

see what I did there with the cowboy reference

besides what could the cost delta be on 2' of line?

Originally Posted by SilverDemon Zoisaojlkasjdfaokdijkdlene <---------see, I can type like I am a chemical engineer, as long as I put the suffix of "lene" behind the word it sounds important. I must go bang on a rock now.....

IDK Scott...that word looks suspect....

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Dano who's building this kit again? alright then...if he wants to use Polytetrafluoroethylene lined lines its his rodeo... see what I did there with the cowboy reference besides what could the cost delta be on 2' of line? IDK Scott...that word looks suspect....

we MSFers never just accept something because someone said it lol


and its always good to check and double check and question things on a platform no matter what. my argument wasent meant to be the start of a fight, but i just wanted to be sure what i was using was ok (because when i had to make my own hose decision 6 months ago when i bought the kit, no one was there to tell me PTFE vs nitrile would make a difference).


what if everyone just assumed methanol was ok to use 100% in the tank without checking? Phate would have had some interesting results lol

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes we MSFers never just accept something because someone said it lol

+1. If we're not discussing, we're not learning.

Originally Posted by Dano besides what could the cost delta be on 2' of line?

Funny part is PTFE is slightly cheaper.




.... All part of my plan for EPIC MARKUP.










I'm gonna snap some pics of the kit components tonight now that things are showing up. This kit is gonna have a ton of shit in it.

[Dano]

hahah

agreed...nothing is taken at face value here which is why we excel

and Anthony just wants to be argumentative...its his nature.

[Ziggo]

Pipe is done, the things you do when you don't have a bead roller...





Relocated BPV, I think I can recirculate from this position pretty easily. You can see the injector bung sitting in there nice and pretty. Its actually going to be shorter than that, I have shorter standoffs and bolts on the way.



The injectors are on back order so I am kinda stuck till it gets in. I need to find a way to plug the hole, or cap off the BPV tube on the other pipe or I will have a massive boost leak.

In-Process pics

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Do uou think you should of placed the injector bung down a little so it will spray straight into the TB?

[djuosnteisn]

Looks great zig!

I'm gonna be building a similar one like that for Tomas tonight / tomorrow. I'll post pics when i get em.

[Tomas]

But mine will have pretty pictars of unicorns no?

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) Do uou think you should of placed the injector bung down a little so it will spray straight into the TB?

There is room for that, but I chose to do it this way since it was more common this way, and I didn't want to squirt only down the center of the pipe.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Ziggo There is room for that, but I chose to do it this way since it was more common this way, and I didn't want to squirt only down the center of the pipe.

I don't like to squirt down the middle of the pipe either so I tilt my hip just a lil.


Tappin

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

I got ya Chris.

[bcmurphy87]

im so stoked fo mo powa.......r35's look out

[ABQ Speed6]

I'm excited to get my car BT, settled in, and move right into this kit.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Yeah, i know, i've seen lots of mixed reports of it. Lots of articles saying it's fine, even in high concentrations. Lots of articles saying it's only okay for smaller concentrations. I'm not a chem-e, and don't know what to trust, so i simply dislike the fact that there's so much wish wash in the results. My gut tells me there's nothing wrong with running it, but my brain tells me not to risk it with the kits. So PTFE it is.

I agree with you Dustin go with the PTFE hose . See the problem with the rubber hose the fuel fumes seep out of which you can smell it also may cause problems the only reason I know this is because I was running that hose. Unlike the PTFE hose which keep the fumes in. I used the PTFE hose to run new fuel lines. But the other down side of the PTFE hose is the ID" of it is some what small then -6 rubber hose..

[PapaSmurf]

I saw all the goodies that arrived at dustins... I need money for this..

#jealousasfuck

[djuosnteisn]

Lots of the stuff is showing up now.

Injectors should be here in a few days, same with controllers.





Tomas, i started on your pipe, and i think it's definitely feasible. I had to cut a slight wedge out of the radius to make it fit in the 4.5" window, but should work just fine. One of the welds on the pipe got a lil ugly (was a slight gap between the two pieces), so i'm gonna rebuild it tonight. I haven't welded on the inj boss yet, but i'll post a pic of the finished project.


In order to make these easier in the future, i was looking at these short radius cast elbows:

Industrial Butt Weld Fittings

Look at the dimensions on the 2-1/2 pipe size, the outside diameter would be 2.875", and probably still fit in the couplers. And the edge to face length (the 4-4.5" dimension in your sketch) would be right at 4".

I think it would be a much cleaner solution. Kinda tempted to order a few pieces just to check it out (if you'd be okay with waiting a lil bit longer).

[bcmurphy87]

omg pictures and updates..... im ready for fun!

[djuosnteisn]

CXracing has a perfec 2.75" tight radius cast aluminum pipe for you Tomas:

cxracing.com: 2.75" Cast Aluminum 90 Degree Elbow Tube Pipe Turbo Downpipe


I'm gonna use that for your pipe.

[J-Liss]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Lots of the stuff is showing up now. Injectors should be here in a few days, same with controllers. Tomas, i started on your pipe, and i think it's definitely feasible. I had to cut a slight wedge out of the radius to make it fit in the 4.5" window, but should work just fine. One of the welds on the pipe got a lil ugly (was a slight gap between the two pieces), so i'm gonna rebuild it tonight. I haven't welded on the inj boss yet, but i'll post a pic of the finished project. In order to make these easier in the future, i was looking at these short radius cast elbows: Industrial Butt Weld Fittings Look at the dimensions on the 2-1/2 pipe size, the outside diameter would be 2.875", and probably still fit in the couplers. And the edge to face length (the 4-4.5" dimension in your sketch) would be right at 4". I think it would be a much cleaner solution. Kinda tempted to order a few pieces just to check it out (if you'd be okay with waiting a lil bit longer).

Dang dude, how much did that set you back?

[djuosnteisn]

No money came out of my pocket. All the beta testers pre-paid....

But with that said..... it's still a large chunk of change.

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Tomas, i started on your pipe, and i think it's definitely feasible. I had to cut a slight wedge out of the radius to make it fit in the 4.5" window, but should work just fine. One of the welds on the pipe got a lil ugly (was a slight gap between the two pieces), so i'm gonna rebuild it tonight. I haven't welded on the inj boss yet, but i'll post a pic of the finished project. In order to make these easier in the future, i was looking at these short radius cast elbows: Industrial Butt Weld Fittings Look at the dimensions on the 2-1/2 pipe size, the outside diameter would be 2.875", and probably still fit in the couplers. And the edge to face length (the 4-4.5" dimension in your sketch) would be right at 4". I think it would be a much cleaner solution. Kinda tempted to order a few pieces just to check it out (if you'd be okay with waiting a lil bit longer).

Dude, those short radius couplers don't like they have enough material at the ends to hold down the clamps properly. I would say there needs to be about 1/2" of straight pipe on both ends so that the clamps and silicon couplers will sit an a good surface.

But if you think those elbows will work go ahead and do it

Thanks.