GI for 5th Port Ghes Injection

[pzr2874]

DJ, the R4 software run on all platforms? (windows, mac, w7, etc) ??

Just asking ahead of time is all.

[Dano]

god dammit Dustin...this is coming together and looks awesome man!

love seeing you in-vision this coming to the mazda DISI masses and making it a reality for the guys that are pushing the limits of OE fueling, which doesn't take much now a days, and basically giving them a plug-and-tune solution.

I think we can all agree that upgraded DI injectors are a pipe dream for the foreseeable future and this certainly will bridge the gap.

a big shout out to the others that have helped bring this to life and I know for one, Anthony has been a big contributor....that man isn't afraid to try ANYTHING!

god bless America and MSF.org!!

[superskaterxes]

dustin,

let me know if you want me to send the latest version of the excel file we have been working on.

[TWOptSL0W]

i am mildly erect...is that normal?

[djuosnteisn]

Quite normal.

I didn't get anything boxed... but everything is there pretty much. Was up til mid-night getting marco's top mount ms3 up and running. Still needs some TLC and spit shine under the hood... but car fired right up without issue.

So first top mount ms3 has started breathing.... hope to have it tuned in a week or so and see what the setup can do


I'll buy some boxes at lunch and try to get things packed up tonight

[jmhinkle]

Jesus, don't buy boxes. Come steal some of the 40 million I have in the garage.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 DJ, the R4 software run on all platforms? (windows, mac, w7, etc) ?? Just asking ahead of time is all.

Works fine on my windows 7 lap top. No clue about a mac though... chances are slim i would say.

Originally Posted by jmhinkle Jesus, don't buy boxes. Come steal some of the 40 million I have in the garage. Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Done and done.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by TWOptSL0W i am mildly erect...is that normal?

as long as it doesn't last longer than 4 hours....4 hours is Ok...but not any longer....lol

[burn813]

Originally Posted by Dano as long as it doesn't last longer than 4 hours....4 hours is Ok...but not any longer....lol

Exactly 4hours or is there some wiggle room?

[Dano]

haha

IDK man but all the Viagra/Cilais commercials just indicate 4 hours...not sure where they came up with that particular time-frame....im pretty sure i wouldn't wait that long...2-3 hours in with a raging boner and I think its time for some medical attention....or a room full of Asian hookers...whatever.

[TWOptSL0W]

Well the way an erection works is that you cut off circulation out of your penis sonthe blood pools up in there. If you cut off the circulation to any part of your body, after a while, the cells inside will die due to lack of oxygen and the entire thing will die and fall off, just like if you tie a string around your finger...so yes, it will literally fall off

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by TWOptSL0W Well the way an erection works is that you cut off circulation out of your penis sonthe blood pools up in there. If you cut off the circulation to any part of your body, after a while, the cells inside will die due to lack of oxygen and the entire thing will die and fall off, just like if you tie a string around your finger...so yes, it will literally fall off

Biology classes in the 5th port thread...

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Originally Posted by Dano haha IDK man but all the Viagra/Cilais commercials just indicate 4 hours...not sure where they came up with that particular time-frame....im pretty sure i wouldn't wait that long...2-3 hours in with a raging boner and I think its time for some medical attention....or a room full of Asian hookers...whatever.

I vote for the asian hookers then if I still have a boner, I'll go to the hospital.

[vrspeed10]

Subbing for one sweet setup

[djuosnteisn]

I took viagra with my ex, had a boner for over 3 hours i'm sure, and had lots of sex. We took a break and watched tv on the couch... still with a boner... and then had more sex, lol.



But yeah.... fifth port is awesome. Kinda like the viagra of fuel for us

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I took viagra with my ex, had a boner for over 3 hours i'm sure, and had lots of sex. We took a break and watched tv on the couch... still with a boner... and then had more sex, lol. But yeah.... fifth port is awesome. Kinda like the viagra of fuel for us

So the real question is, will fifth port make our penises bigger?

[bcmurphy87]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 So the real question is, will fifth port make our penises bigger?

I second this question. Might get the wife off my back and allow for more mods.

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Usually the saying goes the faster you go the smaller your penis. But with the fifth ports I'm sure it's the opposite.

[Easter Bunny]

damn 17 pages in a thread before penis talk, that has to be a record on MSF

[NJSPEED3]

And here i was thinking this was a technical thread. So where do you mount the 5th port penis? Who has the 5th and 6th option i wana see pics please.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[djuosnteisn]

It's up to the gf on where they're mounted. But it's up to you on when they spray, and how much they spray. That's the beauty of it


I've failed at retrieving the boxes from hinkle's palace. I'll go over during lunch and grab them. CFM was short 5 fuel taps, but the remainder should be shipping in just a few days. So hopefully not too much delay there. A few of the beta testers are down for one reason or another, so i'll ship their packages last.


I took thur and fri off as well this week, so i have a 5 day weekend to be super productive. I'll get the how-to wrapped up and finalize Anthony's tuning worksheet. With the top mount ms3 pretty much done, i should have quite a bit more time on my plate (which i'll need to get caught up with tunes, haha... sigh).

[doubleflusher]

Originally Posted by bcmurphy87 I second this question. Might get the wife off my back and allow for more mods.

Well that's your problem right there.

Your wife thinks your penis in on your back.

[bcmurphy87]

Originally Posted by doubleflusher Well that's your problem right there. Your wife thinks your penis in on your back.

tapawhat wins again.....well done sir well done

[TWOptSL0W]

i dont need the cfm tap and i have absolutely NOTHING to do for 2 months...send me my shit lol im bored

[bcmurphy87]

Stoked about this!!! ready to spray mas fuel

[J-Liss]

this is awesome, you guys are awesome!

[djuosnteisn]

Shipped out 3 boxes today (mike, frusha, and chris). Andy's will go out tomorrow, and the rest are waiting for the last of the fuel taps (shipped to me today).


I installed the stuff on my 6 yesterday, and snapped a couple pics for a rough how-to. I'll make a thread right now and copy pasta a link here.

I'm also going to make a quick video showing how to use the R4 software.

Oh, and when i installed the kit on the 6, i did so without a base map in the SS controller..... i figured it was zero'd out. I hooked everything up, including aux injector plugs.... started car and it idled normally. I tapped the gas and heard the aux injectors start to fire, and stalled my car out. For a guy who had previously hydro locked, it was pretty scary, hahahaha. So needless to say, i flashed 3.25" maf base maps in each controller before shipping. I figured 3.25" maf was what most of you will run, and if not, it'll be enough to avoid hydro doom.


Preliminary testing on the ms6 looks very very very very very promising. While setting up the split second controller... i decided to go with a 2 cylinder 2 stroke approach, for better atomization with fifth port. Here's the short and skinny of it:

When set up as a 4 stroke, the SS controller will fire the injectors every other tach pulse. We're using the COPs transistor control wire as our source for tach, so you get 1 per crank rotation (1 per rpm). So when configured as a 4 stroke, the SS controller is really only firing the aux injectors every other rpm (this is 100% correct for normal port injection). When you set it up as a 2 stroke, it'll fire that injector every pulse, thus every rpm. The R4 software notes tell you to mentally double the IDC it reports in the fuel maps when using 2 stroke mode....

BUT.... that's from the perspective of conventional port injection, where 1 inj feeds 1 cylinder. Our injectors are feeding all 4 cylinders (fifth port), so the rules are a little different. At 7000 rpm, 1 crank rotation will take about 8.5 milliseconds, and when set up as 2 stroke, that's your upper limit before the inj goes static.... and that's right in line with what the software reports.

I'll expand more on this when i write up the how to for the R4 software.

Long story short, there's significantly more fuel in this setup than i had previously thought.



I have the boost turned down to like 24-25 psi on the ms6 right now (despite what my broke ass oem map sensor says, lol). I threw in 5 gallons of e85, and reverted to my no meth 4" maf curve. I did zero scaling for the e85, and set the fifth port up to spray a max IPW of 7ms at 7000 rpm around a 550 g/s maf voltage (i wouldn't hit this at 25 psi). My LTFT's at part throttle were +15, and my wot AFRs were in the 9's, hahahaha. That's huge to say the least.

I've only made one revision thus far, pulling some fuel and enabling full time closed loop, same boost. Here's a plot showing IDC's in the 60's.... and the g/s in this plot is roughly 15% lower than it should be (scaled down for the aux fuel):




Here's the v-dyno (again, disregard the broken map sensor):





I have a feeling i'm easily going to meet my target of IDC's in the 90's at 550 awhp uncorrected. I honestly think i could hit 600 right now with no other changes to fuel... and who knows what i could hit after i add a surge tank and convert to a return setup.


I can't wait to see these kits installed on your guys' cars and see people push the fuck out of it.

[burn813]

Where is muyn?? Lol

[PapaSmurf]

Fucking sweet


Sent from my flying tapadildo

[bcmurphy87]

ahh snap i haz ghes in teh mail

[burn813]

Originally Posted by bcmurphy87 ahh snap i haz ghes in teh mail

So fuckin lucky I am on my phone and can't groan you





























So I guess I will thank you

[Ziggo]

And my injector finally shipped today, so today is a good day for the GHES!

[djuosnteisn]

Here's the initial stab at an install guide. I'll make it more elaborate for future kits, but the beta testers are more than capable of this install on their own (and they all know my email / phone number, so i'm only a ring away).

Rough install guide for 5th port injection kits

[Dano]

I <3 u Dustin!

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Dano I <3 u Dustin!

I <3 fuel.... and finally have enough i think


I may run 50/50 e85 from now on :phillyb:



I'll hopefully be hitting the dyno up in the very near future and we can see what this setup will allow for.

[bcmurphy87]

I

[forgedzoomzoom]

Thank You!

[djuosnteisn]

I have TOO much aux fuel, lol.

Up until this point, I figured "set up the aux fuel map to take full advantage of what it has to offer, then trim the maf curve back as needed to lean the AFRs out"..... but i think that initial logic was based off fear that the aux fueling may be inadequate.

It's far from that. At this point, i'm over 400 awhp with IDCs in the 50's running 5 gallons of e85 in the tank. I'm getting some KR, which i have a hunch may be real (or a dump tube rattling, not sure yet). Only reason i say it may be real, is cause at this point, a very significant portion of my fuel is being delivered via fifth port, and cylinder to cylinder distribution is likely less than ideal. Who knows, it's pure speculation at the moment.


My STFT's are still super negative in the upper rpms, and my maf curve has been scaled down so much that my calculated loads are well under 2.0 (peak torque is around 1.88, and redline is around 1.55-1.6).


Here's some plots:

(again, ignore the map sensor... i'm only at 27 psi right now, and plan on tuning for 32-35 psi when all said and done)








I'm glad i finally got the 6 up and running to start getting my feet wet with the kit, and the various approaches to tuning for it. The base maps i flashed in all the controllers will be much like this one, and likely WAAAAY too much fuel. So you guys will need to pull some fuel out of the aux maps before you start running. I still haven't made the video on how to work the R4 software (it's not difficult at all), but i'll try to do it tonight.

I'm way behind in tuning... need to dedicate some time to that before i'm permanently on the "hate list". I'll see if i can get a vid put together regardless. I Just feel like this is kinda a big deal, since it's going to help us achieve the fueling we need for very very big power. Fuel has been the current hurdle ever since the load cap was eliminated... and it's about time we found a way around it.



Oh, and lastly, when making the line for my setup, i decided to try Anthony's suggestion of leaving out the compression nipple thing out. It seemed to work great, pressure tested just fine... so i ran it. But after things warmed up a bit, i started to smell fuel. I drove home immediately, pulled into garage, popped hood...... and sure it enough, the line was leaking a lil bit while the car idled. I touched the line and tried to tighten the fitting some more, and the whole damn thing popped off, lolol. Woops. Glad i'm not a burn patient right now.



So i had to find the compression nipples, and re do the line the hard way, and so far it seems to be holding just fine. I'm just glad i didn't skimp on the 5 successful lines i made. It's important for everyone to be cautious with this setup, cause we're literally "cooking with gasoline". Plan on making some test runs, and keep a close eye on things at first.

Pushloc ftw from now on. Fuck these lines.


New tuning strategy is going to be supplementing just enough aux fuel such that my IDC's stay in the 80-90 range. Having them stuck in the 50-60 range is just too much.

I'll dial in the tune further over the next couple days while i commute to work. I also was wrong about the aux fuel map approach. Originally i thought that the aux fuel should scale proportionately with the airflow, based off the MAF voltage. But... this results in increasingly negative STFT's in the higher rpms, and a necessary non-linear scaling of the maf curve in ATR to compensate. The problem is i forgot to include a "calculated load" approach. Since the aux injectors are spraying with a given RPM reference, a fixed amount of airflow at 4000 rpm is much different than the same airflow at 8000 rpm, and the aux injectors should only be squirting half as much IPW at the higher rpms. This is why my STFT's are so negative in the higher rpms.


This is gonna be such a powerful setup... i love it.

[NJSPEED3]

This is by far my favorite tnread to read.

Fucking awesome work Dustin.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 This is by far my favorite tnread to read. Fucking awesome work Dustin.

It's gonna get real good once these other guys start posting up their findings as well.

Forgot to mention, Andy and Chris (ziggo), your parts shipped yesterday