When I originally went full E (Modded spill valve) I had death develop very slowly. I felt invincible until I started loosing pressure. You can tell when it starts. Just listen to your pump. If it starts to sound funny or louder the usual, its time to rebuild the pump.

Sent from a Galaxy far far away...

Sadly, this doesn't make it a fix but a deterrent.

In other news, car started perfectly after sitting for two days, and ran perfect all the way to the gas station; and that's when I checked my tire pressure. :(

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml

Just an FYI both Modern Automotive Performance and Rally Sport Direct sell it if you are ordering anything from them, might be worth throwing a bottle in your order.

@CHUNKYBOWSER;

Well Shit. another 30 miles, did a full pull. one Cell every 5-10 cells still drops out below 1600, which is Bad! It is possible that I have been leaning out the Mixture, since I have been toping of now instead of putting in 1oz to 1 Gallon like I was doing in the past. (having a broken fuel Level sender sucks balls) I am going to richen up the Mixture of The additive, drive around a bit tonight, let the additive try to work its magic, then do one final Pull. If I still have pressure then Woohoo! If not I will Pull the Pump in the morning and start over. Might test more oils, Might Go back to HPFP Mods. Maybe both, who knows. Attachment 153149

Thank you for your persistence; while it very well may not wind up being a permanent fix, it sure is buying way more time (tanks between cleanings) than some of us have had.

Well Shit... I don't know what to think anymore. I guess I wont rebuild the pump after all. Pressure looks good again after increasing the levels of in tank Si-1 by 50%. Logs started bad, then got better the more I drove. here is the last log of the night before I parked it. Attachment 153171. I am going to go for a mountain drive in the morning, I will take another log on my way home to compare after burning though this tank.

So i took the MSF e85 challenge as well (love it) On Penzz Plat oil i changed about 500mi ago

started off with 7.5 gallons of 100% E85 and a full bottle of redline si 1 , watched pressures like a hawk.. wishing i had a dashhawk lol

no issues at all with pressures, idle pressures around 430 and WOT never dropped once below 1600.

second fill up of 7.5 gallons of 100% E and 1oz additive per gallon, thought i saw pressure dips but turns out i am only seeing that downhill @ light throttle the pressure drops, seems normal just never paid this close attention

still no issues at idle or WOT

currently on the 3rd fill up @ 6 gallons of E and 1oz additive per gallon and have about 3 gallons or less in the tank

no issues to speak of yet -

wasnt keeping track of my mileage because our cars will vary so i am only going by gallons consumed.

Do you think that the cells dropping out could be fixed by your spring mod? I am running a stock spring at the moment.

Here is a log. Forgot to post
Attachment 153238

So I'm well beyond my due oil change. My thought is that the oil being broken down and in theory thinner, would allow more oil to mix with the fuel in the pump and try to increase chance of sticky.

Would this be a logical theory, or minimal difference? I'm kind of going for worst case scenario for T6 to induce failure.

Just tapa it in.

I don't know; what I do know is that not doing the spring mod properly causes excessive pressure to build, so sometime today or tomorrow I'll be pulling my spill valve to fix that. When I do, I'll check for sticky and we will potentially have that answer.

If I recall correctly one of the reasons T6 is the oil everyone uses is because it simply doesn't dilute with fuel; T6 is honey badger oil, and we all know about honey badgers don't we?

Agreed. But it was also the worst offender to sticky spill valves and black death wasn't it?



Just tapa it in.

That's what the report says. However, I believe someone is testing the oil with the additive now. If not someone do it. I am still waiting for Blackstone's lab report to see how bad this shit is for my oil. People on different oils should do the same.

Sent from a Galaxy far far away...

I'm on T6 testing the full E85 with the different additive. So far so good.

Just tapa it in.

I'm curious... What are the benefits of running redline on a primarily e93 setup? I only have about 4 gallons of e85...but I work at a parts store so picking up a bottle of redline every now and then to keep things clean would be hellaeasy

Tapa Tapa Tapa

Pulled my SV today. Its not magic, its just sticky goo! http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/byvaqysu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/6a2yqepu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/6e4uny6y.jpg

Took some fuel out of my pump and a tooth brush, cleaned the sticky right off. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/y9ygu3ur.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/e3e4e4uj.jpg

I inserted Enki's button valve spring mod. Pressure was still dropping every couple cells. I am glad to see that even when the spill valve is caked with sticky shit, it still preforms like it should when soaked in the fuel.



I just played with my tune, changed my pressure targets, Leaned my AFR a bit. Did a MAF CAL. I'll See if anything changes.

Thats over a 1000 miles on full E before cleaning shit...Thats awesome. I hated it when i would be out and like 50 miles driving my spill valve would stick and lose pressure. Now even going 500 miles without cleaning id be happy since i dont daily my car at all.


Lets just see what the oil test says tho lol

Even thought it now looks like this isn't a permanent "fix," it certainly improves things to a huge degree. Bravo, sir; bravo.

I've been contemplating taking the plunge to add another data point, but I'm a bit concerned about this: I've been running a 1:2 ratio of E85:93 for a couple weeks now, and when I start my car in the morning there's a faint 'squeak' that lasts a fraction of a second and then doesn't repeat. Sound like a sticky HPFP? On that mix I wouldn't have expected any issues. I certainly haven't had any pressure issues.

I have 83K on my car, 5K after the rebuild. Shortly after the rebuild I ran 3 cans of seafoam on three consecutive tanks of gas. This past weekend I put a bottle of SI-1 through (I propose we just refer to this as 'the substance' going forward). If the squeak goes away I'm going to try 50-50 for a week, and then go whole hog. I use T6, btw.

@crutch77; have you read this thread?
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=105223

Sent from a Galaxy far far away...

Nope, hadn't seen that. You're the man!

I only get the squeak on cold start, and reducing the pressure makes sense but I don't think that is *why* it's squeaking. I don't squeak any other time I'm getting 1800+ psi - so I think it's a lubrication issue. Might be quad rings, might be PRV.

Once they get some liquid love it's done chirping, and since I've added the redline si-1 I might get one or maybe two chirps, but more often none. (3/9 mix) If it was a damaging phenomena, people would be tearing up internals as it's been going on for hundreds of cold starts - I'm thinking it's just gaskets.

I have a chemist coming in today. If I get a chance to talk to him I am going to pick his brain about e85, oil, and additives. Maybe he can steer us in the right direction...

Sent from a Galaxy far far away...

Well, I just talked with him. He was a moron, he did not have anything useful to say about E. He beat around the bush back to the product he was pushing. He sounded more like a salesman then a chemist. I will be trying this product however. Supposedly it decreases blow by, and increased MPG by 4-7miles. I told him theses are bold statements, I told him to send me a sample and I would do my own controlled test.

The problem with looking at this issue from a chemistry perspective is you need to know the exact composition of the fuel, oil, and anything else that may be present in either.

The guy that came in probably was a salesman with some kind of chemistry certification from his place of employment that taught him all the right words to use with intelligent people like yourself. Even then, since he didn't really know anything, he wasn't able to fool you with his speil.

When i changed out my button valve I left it to soak in a 1/3 oz of e85 treated with redline. I found this after letting it sit for a few days. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/e9e5asu8.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/use4y4e2.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/asyjahyt.jpg

The button valve assembly was completely spotless, no goo, no nothing (double negative). Even the spring was sticky free. I remember cleaning the outside of the base beforehand but that was it.

I wonder what the white stuff is... Water? It does not seem to be mixing with the brownish goo. Smells like ass. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/02/6aduru4a.jpg

Not anything conclusive, just thought it was nice not having to rub the valve clean with a cleaner.

are you going to try and mix oil in with it next?

Yeah, that's probably water + alcohol. When I doused the corn fire from the hotplate testing, it was white like that as well.

Through a total 17 gallons over 250 miles. Had a couple cells drop into the 1500's during a datalog but was not there on the 2nd. Other than longer crank time during a cold start, my testing is going well so far. I have gone back to 1oz:1gal for this next fill up in light of the low cells.

Just tapa it in.

How low? If you're hitting 1590s with others around it being mid 1600s then it's probably fine and likely a big injection event that caused the dip (running out of fuel due to long spray time).

It dropped to 1540 on one cell.
Pretty minor, but I also had the min/max drop to 54psi after the log while cruising.

Edit: @Enki; it should be in the log I sent you the other day.

Just tapa it in.

A 54 is certainly cause for concern, but only if it keeps coming back.

It looks like you're right on the edge, so anything that happens now (including upping your additive) will be fantastic information for the thread.

Just keep in mind: losing HPFP pressure on full e85 is nothing more than an *annoyance* and is not cause for concern regarding the longevity of your engine. I'm proof enough of that (as I probably have the most miles on my car of anyone at ITFP pressure).

Any oil test results yet seeing if additive is breaking down or causing any no-no's?

Think I can add this to a tank of 93 only in attempt to reverse some sticky?

Try it and let us know.

using a graduated shot glass for car related chemistry experiments, awesome I love when hobbies collide.

@littleloogy; update on the oil results?

Sorry for the delay guys. Had some problems with my little boy. Apparently after 2 open heart surgeries his heart is better, but now he may have a problems with brain. He is going in for a brain MRI to make sure his blood vessels in his squash are ok. Its possible that he might be prone to brain aneurysms. So that's what I have been focusing on.

I will get the results on Monday for the oil. I am at 2500 miles and I have yet to have any problems. At 3000 miles the pump will be pulled as it went through an entire oil change interval.

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Dude fuck that shit with the e85 fix
Put ALL your time into your son and family. My son had cancer and beat it and I never regret a day for putting my family first. I wish him the best

I too get pressure drop during every log in the high 1500's every 10-15 cells below 4500 RPMs, I assuming its fine.

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Family first bro. E85 can wait!


Hope everything is well and works out!

Need to see some logs if I haven't already. PM me a link or mention me or something and I'll see if I can help.

I also want to help by providing more data. I currently run a 4/10 mix, but I'm due for an oil change and would like to use my car as tester too. Problem is that I don't know how to tune for full e


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I haven't gotten any low pressure since I went back to 1oz:1gallon. But I think I and going to have to back out of the testing. The added cost of additives at every 8 gallons every 3 days is hurting the wallet and with a rebuild also going on, just can't swing it anymore. But I know I can run at least 600mi on T6 with the additive I was using.

just tapa it in.

The car is a very close second, but family always comes first. Especially young offspring. Hope he pulls though healthy.

Ok @Enki; I did a quickie for you as I Was coming home from Jamba Juice. I almost spilled my drink. It is pretty similar to how my other logs looked. Attachment 155424

You have a separate thread I can post comments in? Don't want to clutter this one...

Thank you for helping me understand my Fuel Pressure issues @Enki;

Here is the Report from Blackstone. For some reason i wrote down a 10w40 Oil Type. They knew better and do pay attention.
Attachment 155994



This Report looks good minus the Silicon levels. I am Digging the Moly plating compared to Penzoil Ultra.

Might want to get rid of your personal info from that report...

Thank you for looking out @phate; I forget sometimes of what kind of world we live in. Here is the updated Oil Report.
Attachment 155995

Looks like it's thinning the oil out pretty good tho.


But good to see no crazy harmful shit happening.

Yes, I am relieved. I don't see why I can't keep going with this test. I will continue to drive it hard until 3000 miles at which time I will post up how the pump looks after 3000 miles of Full E along with another oil report. I am concerned about the Cam Follower, as it was slapping my pump when the internals were sticking on the cold startup on my road trip.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think the "thinning" comment they made had to do with the fact he's actually running a 5-30 oil but listed it as a 10-40.

This is correct. I did not list the correct oil on my slip. I am running 10w30, not 10w40.

Ohh well that makes more sense then lol.


Can't wait till my shit is back together to run full E again!

Any updates?


Sent from your girlfriends tapabedroom

I would just keep an eye on it and inspect it closely every time you pull the pump. It will be obvious if it is wearing. VW's FSI engines are still eating cam followers to the point of breaking through them. Lol.

I have finally determined the source of my high silicon levels in my recent oil report and have concluded that the elevated levels were caused by a hardware malfunction and not from the fuel additive as Blackstone theorized. My 3 port EBCS return to intake line was not connected to the tip, this allowed dirty unmetered air to get into my system.

I am approaching the 3000 mile mark on Full E85 with this additive, and I still do not have any problems to report. I do need to change my oil soon. I got a lot of requests to test Rotella with this additive. It seems to be the most popular choice of oils.

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I know with the additive I was using with the Rotella, got me about 600+ miles. I had to give up testing as added cost of the additive and burning through 8 gallons E every 3 days was killing me. I would hope to see similar results with a different additive as well.

just tapa it in.

First, awesome results so far.

Do you think it would be more beneficial to get a larger sample size with oils before switching? I ask because I know there was quite a bit of difference in oil's tested in the King's of Corn thread.

For what it's worth, I run T6, so I am without a doubt interested in seeing it tested. I also have been using this additive with each fill up of my 50/50 mix. I started that after last oil change about 1500 miles ago, and cleaned my pump before at the time, it didn't need it. I plan on getting UOA after another 1500 mi, and inspecting the pump then as well.

I would, maybe open to running full e with t6 in tandem with your testing.

TL/DR--MOAR DATA=BETTER, MAYBE?

So test it.

So you still running 1:1 or w.e or u running less additive now?

Same additive content as before. I am hesitant to lean it out as this is my daily driver. This weekend I finally will have a few days to myself, and can risk some car trouble. Therefore I will run a 1oz to 2 gallon ratio and see how she does.

E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives
 

My engine is about a month or so out from being in my car, after break in I am really debating running full E with this additive along with redline 20w50. Hopefully there is more data by then but if not I am still up for it.


Sent from your girlfriends tapabedroom

I hope I can deliver. What are you looking for as far as data goes? Tonight is my HPFP teardown and write up night. Maybe I can address some of your questions at that time.

I guess by "data" I meant more people running full e successfully like you are. I will for sure be running 20w50 just because the thicker oil will help keep oil temps down. The reason I picked redline is because you have been successful with redline oil already. Hopefully different oil viscosity's dont play a roll in if "black death" occurs or not.

I understand. Let's see how the pump looks tonight. I called Redline today, the "tech" was out for the day. I will be calling again on Monday to discuss the testing of the product and possible side effects from prolonged use. I do not want to take a chance is being responsible for killing motors.

Edit:
Redline by default runs cooler and thicker as it is. When my Redline oil (10w30) warms up it actually becomes close to a 10w40. So a 20w50 may actually be a 20w60...

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I'm praying for this to work out. If it does when my vvt is fixed I'll be running 100% E85. I've been running chevron delco for a few months. I was planning on getting a uoa anyways. So we can compare before and after to see if it affect the oil any.

Removal of the pump was delayed a day due to mother nature being a bitch.

I was really disappointed when I removed my internals this morning. I guess in the back of my head I knew they would look like this, but I was hoping for better results.

These internals have not been touched for 3000 miles on Full E. The internals were in good shape considering. Not to much black death, but were coated in sticky death.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/27/4uvasu2e.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/27/ehuneqah.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/27/e7egybes.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/27/9ezeny2e.jpg

When I tried to pull the internals apart they were damn near seized. I was able to pull them apart with my hands, but it was really tough. I GOPROed the removal if anyone wants to see it what it was like.

When I think back I remember my cold startups have not always been crisp. The engine would briefly (less then a second) stumble until the pump worked itself loose then would idle and run flawlessly. This is caused by the fuel drying out between the piston and the sleeve as the pump sits over night. When the motor turns over it forces fresh fuel onto the sleeve and piston freeing up the internals for normal operation.



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I don't care what anyone says man, 3000 miles on full E is a fucking victory in my book.

I know we don't have VW'esque cam follower deterioration, but I have to wonder what this is doing to the follower or cam lobe with the additional resistance. If it's just on startup, it's probably not a big deal.

Is everyone running this test using ATs? Anyone using the CS internals and what might be a different coating on the piston?

I pulled my Cam Follower and it still looked new. Even after running like this for 30 miles... Cam follower slapping HPFP:
Edit: This was from my first experience with black death. Fun times...

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@TiGraySpeed6; interesting read if you haven't already seen it, man. Let me know what you think.

Also, does anyone in here think there is an advantage to running a round of redline through my car just to clean things up a bit? I work at O'Reillys so the stuff is basically free for me. I'd like to clean up if I can, even if I'm only on 4 gallons of E right now.

Tapa Tapa Tapa

This was asked earlier in the thread. "try it" and let us know.

Oh shit ya I did ask that. I couldn't remember if I did, or just thought about it and never got around to it.

Alright. Well, I don't see how it would do any damage do I'll try it out and see if it helps.

I'm only getting like 10mpg right now and can't figure out why... So I'm hoping something like this redline stuff will clean everything up a bit and help.

Tapa Tapa Tapa

does the pump prime itself with the ignition on? the only way to break the gunk loose is actually turning it over right? ive been on fulle E for quite a while now, my situation is my car sits for 4 days and i drive it on the weekend, cold starts are a bit stumbly but once it warms up its all good

The pump only receives the pressure the ITFP sends which is 60 PSI in my case. This is the only prime it sees.

I am a 12' with tech package so this may not apply to everyone: After my speed sits for a few days or on really cold startups I floor my gas pedal and clutch so my engine turns over but does not start. I monitor my fuel pressure closely, when it climbs past 1000 PSI I release my gas pedal and my engine will start without a stumble.

I don't usually do this because the battery in my car is about shot. And I don't want to kill my starter with prolonged low voltage cranking.

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What oil have you been running? I didn't see a post from you in the king of corn thread

I went for a drive tonight. Raced a few cars got on it like usual, but something just was not feeling right. I start to take it easy as I just did not feel comfortable. My radio was on so I turned it off, then I hear that all to familiar sound... "Squeek squeek squeek." The damn relief valve is going off like there ain't no tomorrow. I look closer at my Fuel pressure, sure shit fuel pressure spike into the high 1800's. I get home and find this sticky shit...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/3e7ybavy.jpg
A non sticky button valve! Yey. But unfortunately I also found this...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/agezagyz.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/3aqugunu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/ugagasas.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/9e7e3e6u.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/jumysy4a.jpg

I decided to go back to my Spill valve upper spring Mod. This worked great at allowing the spill valve to work with the sticky death. I took out the spring mod when I started this additive.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/28/5upupy4a.jpg
I wanted to see if the upper spring mod was mandatory or not. Clearly you will need this mod if you are to run a maintenance free full E85 for over 1500 miles.

I reinstalled the modified spill valve without cleaning anything. Here is the hpfp mod thread in case you want more info. http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ations-164812/

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Looks like ill need to mod my spill valve.

@CouldaHadaDodge;

Tapa Tapa Tapa

I've done some orifice measuring on the spill valve and found inconsistencies in available flow area; while I'm not sure that modifying the pump will actually accomplish anything, it will be interesting to try. I also still need to take a look at a fuel pump body as well, but it might get destroyed if modified (which I want to avoid).

I'll post a thread on this later after I've had a chance to give a pump body a once-over.

i just bought two bottles from amazon for 11.95 free shipping each, i found same price on ebay. I dont run any E85 but all cars get 10% ethanol Via normal gas so I plan on running a bottle trough my ms3 and cx7 just to clean shit up.

I am thinking i should maybe split the bottle in half per tank instead of a bottle per tank.

i know this does not help you guys run E85 but the issues could occur with normal gas over long time.

I tried running lean on the additive with negative results. I was having a bad time driving to work. Pressure got really inconsistent. I ended up pouring some additive directly into my spill valve area to stop my internals from sticking... Shit worked almost instantly.

Now I have another idea... Direct injection for the additive, directly into the pump. It will be Controlled by a button in the cab, when internals start to stick... Hit the goo button. Similar to an IV, But pressurized.

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Maybe not something where you press a button but something that flows a small amount continuously or something similar to a meth kit. That way it takes the guess work out so to speak ..hmmn

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I like buttons though...

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You can press my buttons anytime ;)

I was just throwing out an idea for the preventative side
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It does, actually. 3k miles is further than anyone really ever gets without some kind of issue.

It does, actually. Worst pump I ever saw had seized stock internals from black death in a 100k mile CX7. Pretty sure the engine went as a result.

I like this brainstorming!

Tapa Tapa Tapa

So your saying I should clean my 45000 mile pump that has never been touched.

Shit man, that's some frankenstein shit.



I like it.





and thanks for all the work you're putting in man, this is turning out to be a pretty big breakthrough for the power-hungry fellas who just need that 100% E85.



Pretty sure something like this would make the difference between 794whp and 800+whp... hehehe

It definitely wont hurt.... win win if you ask me. and if anyone wants they can shoot me real quick how to add 30% to my speed 6 and ill fine tune myself and help with the oil testing. i am currently running 5w30 royal purple. i have my rx-8 up and running now so i can park my 6 when it needs a fuel cleaning. i have a cpe hpfp also.

Best place to "inject" would be off the blue or yellow clip line; a hole in the pump anywhere else is asking for trouble. You should be able to get an inline tap style setup like what people use for 5th port.

That is an excellent idea. That will give the additive time to mix into the fuel. I will most likely choose this route. However, I do have a pump off of a 2.0t motor. I might swap out the baffle covers and run the additive through there as the cover lines up perfectly.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/na7uhe2u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/menahybe.jpg

If this works well I will work on a Plug and play style kit, that will more likely tap into the relief valve. But I guess it does not matter much.



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This might actually be a good option for creating a return style fuel system for use with 5th/manyport injection, and provide additional cooling to the HPFP...

History is in the making...

Tapa Tapa Tapa

Yup, I had a lot of sticky in my pump when I was swapping in Autotechs at around 17k miles. :sad:

I had some black death in my pump when I first out internals in. Never ran e85 before that obviously. But pump gas contains up to X% of ethanol. I've been on 50/50 corn for three years and never had to clean my pump. Although startups have been getting a little weird so im sure there is black death waiting for me

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Well here are some more pictures of the baffle cover in case you want to see more.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/pavaquve.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/veveru8u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/sazysepa.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/agabu4aq.jpg

I like that this plate could be used to monitor the low pressure side during WOT pulls. To see if we are getting a pressure drop from the low side.

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