I have decided to stop using Si-1 in my fuel tank. It is expensive and I feel that we may just be wasting the product. Therefore, I will be adding 2 ML of additive directly into the HPFP every night when I get home from work. In theory, as the additive sits in the pump it will soften and/or eliminate any sticky buildup that will be developing as the fuel boils in my pump. I also believe that this will help with my sticky internal morning start up.

At any time my internals start to stick when I am driving, I will pull over and add a 2 ML's of additive directly into the pump, like so...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/ebyba2yq.jpg
Take some fuel out so it does not over flow.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/evezy8e6.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/edy9u2y5.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/29/9uhepa4e.jpg

This will simulate (more/less) how my direct additive injection will work, and how the pump will react to the short high dosage of Si-1.

I'm also interested in the fact that there's two ports on that plate so in theory you could run a second pump/line to it while also simultaneously feeding a tertiary fuel rail. If we hog out the hpfp and/or mod it to allow double the flow into the pressure cavity through the spill valve (and there actually IS cavitation due to flow starvation) then who knows how much power we could potentially get out of the "stock" fuel system.

Not to mention the potential benefits of having a return style secondary fuel source cooling the pump body off.

with an upgraded ITFP that should not be needed with the FPR crush mod, as far as preventing cavitation

Epic find guys super stoked to see if we can try another test with a possible baffle mod. seems like an awesome idea.. You said that was off a 2.0t?

Yes. Audi AND VW with the 2.0t engine. Pumps are very similar, the internals of the pump are the same. IMO There is a better seal on the retaining nut for the piston on their pumps. Unfortunately the pump has a different bolt pattern which inhibits us from bolting directly to the MZR. They are new on eBay for 200 bucks. If anyone wants to grab one.

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Is the retaining nut similar as far as the threads go?

Completely identical to ours.

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Except a better seal. Stock piston size is the same as well.

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HMMMMMM....

It sure would be nice if our flow limit on the HPFP was due to cavitation and resolving that would actually allow 400 WHP on full e85...

Can you compare measurements on the retaining nuts?

Yes, tonight. To bad we are talking about modding the fuel pump in an additive thread, we get a little excited... And organization goes to shit [emoji33]

Yes, but it's for science. Make a new one and tag me in it and we can go all Scientists Gone Wild.

I don't know about all that. Someone might get the wrong idea start posting nudes while preforming science. Which would be OK with me, depending on how they look.

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This is how similar the pumps are...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/tu9e9u5u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/ada7u9ug.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/5adyde6y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/tadegaze.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/7y4asupy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/6a5ymyve.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/6adydehu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/sudy7uqu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/ysu2u3u6.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/a9ahute2.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/u3ete6eh.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/pa6epaha.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/30/esa5ysub.jpg

I fucked up that retaining nut in the hopes that the scraper was pressed in. In case anyone wants to know... It is not.

I could have told you that the scraper is a thin piece of plastic backed by an oring. I had a retaining nut that I was able to remove the scraper from...I don't recommend trying to run it like that though.

How far off is the bolt pattern on the housings?

just tapa it in.

If I remember right the pattern was the same, but one side was a little more spaced out then the other pump. It is unfortunate, I was sad when it would not line up...

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So far so good on the additive direct injection testing. I have gotten to know my car pretty well over the past year from being on E mixes. I can now tell early stages of sticky death by sounds, feel of the car, and fuel pressures.

For example. Every morning as I have documented, my fuel pump sticks then breaks loose. Then the first 2-3 miles I can hear my relief valve squeak and my fuel pressure bounce all over until is stabilizes. After I started injecting 2ml of additive directly into my pump (under the button valve) after the last shutdown of the day. The nasty startups in the morning before work have became smooth. No relief valve squeak, no harsh slapping of the pump and a very stable idle fuel pressure +/-10 psi of target.

I was able to drive over 60 miles this evening without having any episodes of the fuel problems like I experienced after leaning out my mixture of additive in my tank. I will continue to run this way as well as document my findings.

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I have been subscribed and lurking since the beginning. I just want to express my sincere gratitude toward you guys with all the research and testing that you are putting into this.

I'm with Kay on this. Thanks to everyone who has contributed for the better of the community. I plan to be running full E soon, and look forward to doing so as more testing is done.

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@FSUMazdaSpeed; this is what I was talking about. Pretty interesting stuff.

Tapa Tapa Tapa

Can you use this stuff in your oil instead of gas tank?

... You can not be serious.
Aww you changed your statement

I would not recommend that

Lmao. I realized what I said after I pressed post lol. Def wasn't thinking on that one.

I just got home from a 200 mile road trip and Pulled in my driveway. I started my timer at the same time I clicked my engine off. I rushed into my garage and grabbed my tools. I pulled my spill valve and waiting for the boiling point. It took 2 minutes 48 seconds for my fuel to start boiling in my pump housing. If you pull your SV before boiling point, pressure is very minimal.

Anyway, the drive went good. I did not have any pressure spikes or loss, the pressure stayed pretty consistent. I hit 400 miles tonight on this new direct injection method. I have yet to see any early signs of sticky death. I have used less then 1 OZ since I started this experiment. I am not going to get my hopes up, death shows up when you least expect it.

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Ever since I started working at VW, I've been intrigued by how similar the pumps were, but I never thought that plate would bolt right on. Does everything internal still line up with that plate from the 2.0T? I should check and see what my price is on a 2.0T pump, but knowing VW, it'll still be ridiculous even with employee pricing.

Boiling?

I have no other words..... I'm dumbfounded

See... Boiling fuel. I try to add the additive before the fuel does this in the pump

Boiling fuel:

Ebay has the pumps new for close to $180. I keep my eye open for good deals. Sometimes you get lucky and find a low mile pump with a broken spill valve that sells for 50 shipped.

I also check craigslist for cars that have a 2.0t engine that are being parted out part out.




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The VW baffle cap on the right is very interesting as it opens up a possibility for passive cooling; fuel heats and passes out of the the HPFP, drawing cool fuel in (the same principle as hot air rising).

Do you know the purpose of the baffle cap inlet/outlet for that motor?

Perhaps you could check if VW list a part No. / price just for the baffle cap?


Edit - should probably continue this discussion in @littleloogy;s HPFP hardware thread

Fuel in the pump is actually cold right after shutdown. I can put my finger in it and get a chill. Temperature increased drastically once fuel stopped moving. Literally, one second its cold the next its seems to almost burn my finger. I think if we setup a return line for after shutdown, we can prevent the sticky from forming in the first place by keeping temps below boiling point.

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Have you put a thermometer to it yet? I'm curious. If you say it's cold in a matter of seconds..... where is the boiling fuel going? (meaning, fresh fuel is being pushed in while the old/hot fuel is exiting). There is no return on our car (so I thought)

It's just boiling off.

There isn't a return hence I would assume the sticky problem

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I should reiterate that this comment pertained to what happens when the spill valve is off the pump. With it on, pressure would increase until the regulator in the fuel tank cracks open, allowing a cycle of boil-off to pressure drop to heat soak to boil, etc. Eventually the only thing left in the spill valve area would be hot gas/ethanol fumes and oil residue which doesn't evaporate (thus, sticky).

I'd rather run the additive than putting it in right after shut down. Seems like too much work.


And I don't daily my car it shouldn't be too expensive running the additive. Guess we'll see. Car will be up and running in a week or two.

I think he is seeing if it in fact works then he might or someone might devise a direct injection device that would keep the need from injecting it manually. That shouldn't be too hard. Like he said earlier. A button you press right after shut down

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Ahh yes yes....My bad. for time being ill just run additive in the tank!

Its not that bad actually. It takes me 4 minutes to complete the direct injection process. I do not do it after every shutdown. I do it at the last shutdown of the day, Right before I go sleepy time.

I have started creating a parts list and doing a bit of studying for the best parts for this kit. The hardest part will be finding VW/Audi covers, as I don't believe the covers are sold separately.

Ohh I kno it's easy to do, taken my Cpe pump apart 50+ times when I ran 100% E. Now I'm trying to get my car put together to run full E again tho.

Here is what my pump looked like after about 500 miles of just adding 2 ML of additive under the button valve every night.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/a2a9ezub.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/5uhujuqa.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/rahane4e.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/ape7u5e8.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/e3e9u8u2.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/y5umyve9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/9uvysusy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/05/ge6a5ypy.jpg

Internals had a slight sticky feel. But was able to wipe off without the need for a cleaning agent. They came right apart. No black death on piston or retainer the black you see was soft, it was not sticky

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if this works out, having a cover machined specifically for this use wouldnt be that much of a hassle.

Cap off the outlet on the VW cover, get some sort of solenoid on the inlet with a small cap/opening/tank for dumping in some of this additive. Wire it up to be a switch or button you hold for 2 seconds and it'd be a cakewalk to maintain.

Gee why didn't I think of that? Oh wait...

Read the thread before posting shit that has already been mentioned.

@littleloogy; and @Enki; , the mad scientists! Little loogy, you are stubborn and it gives results! What you guys are doing for e85 on this plattform is epic and will go down as its own chapter in the msf chronicles!

Consider it approval of your genius idea! I'm not tryin to rip off you more so thinking out loud, it sounds like a sweet setup!

May be a dumb idea but could you possibly tap in the hard fuel line and make a drip with the additive alone? Or maybe a version of 5th port to directly add the additive? Just thoughts.

The only dumb thought is the one not mentioned ;D

Tapa Tapa Tapa

I want to apologize for the lack of updates. I am currently Running into a problem. The problem is that I do not have a problem. I have been waiting for death to attack my pump so I can actually collect some data with this oil and install the injection system. I do not know if it is the oil @Enki; suggested I use, or if it is because I used the additive as a Cleaner/Lubricant when I cleaned and installed the pump. I have 800 miles on the pump since the last rebuild, I have opened the spill valve a few times to check for stickiness, which has been minimal. Here is the Log incase anyone wants to see, its hot outside :angryfire:
Attachment 161417

I have decided not to wait any longer for death as it seems as though it will never appear. This week I will try to get the prototype injection system installed and try my best to calibrate it If time allows. I am hoping it works, its about time we all find out.

Can hardly wait for future update on this!

Hell yea dude. That is actually great news.

Have you figured out where/what you might install the prototype injection system onto?

Thank you for all the testing and research that you have put into this. I will be watching this thread closely.

looking very promising. hope you can get a system up and running soon!

In before injection system is made from parts of penis pump.

That would be good news! Since everybody here will be able to replicate it immediately.

I'm still trying to figure out why it's imperative we can run 50-100% E. We don't have the injector headroom and 96 RON ~ 3/9 mix will get you to MBT -2. I'm drunk but this pursuit seems silly for nothing more than beating an obstacle that ... isn't really an obstacle. Splain this shit to me James, and it better be more than "cuz stubborn".

Ethanol carries oxygen. More ethanol = more oxygen AND more cooling.

It's going to be a game changer for stock turbo cars, OR cars with 5/xth port and high comp pistons or redicuboost.

I was sorta applying this to your current setup with the EFR kit and pre-HPFP replacement woes. Seemed like injector headroom would be more important with your pressures normalized, and meth providing much better BATs for your AZ temps.

I will refrain from adding further drunken comments damning the project, as my faux IDCs are currently happy at 95-96% feeding the beener, and a meth kit is my next great hope for defeating the staging lane heat soak.

Meth is all well and good, but it's far, FAR better to reduce the temperature of the air *INSIDE* the cylinder as that has the greatest effect on volumetric efficiency.

Also, send me a log; love to see what an AZ BNRS3 can do.

Its quite simple really. I do not like that when people say things can't be done. I take it as a personal challenge. So yes, stubbornness...
Besides that, after going full E for an extended period of time. I have been working very hard on my tune, at least 40 revisions. With advise from everyone as they converse among themselves in various threads. I have picked up tips on fueling. playing with phasing, VTT, Timing, @and boost, which has enabled me to develop a custom tune that not only is safe to run, but also very fuel efficient (almost as good as petrol). The one thing that amazes me, is that I am mostly stock. I only have a racepipe, and an intake and I am doing the 60-100 in 5.5 seconds.

Answer me this @JgamB; do you want to mix fuel the rest of your life? I sure as hell don't. Would it not he bad ass to top off with E and not have to worry about about how much fuel you have left and calculating ratios? Mixing fuel sucks, fuel trims are always changing because the fuel is never constant.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Ain't no going back now...http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/29/neheqama.jpg FUCK!

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Nice, thanks for all your hard work on this!

Any update @littleloogy; ?

What's the deal, any recent updates or findings?

Yup. Got it figured out.

6,000 miles. Full E. No pump rebuilds. Doing more testing before I say if it actually works or not.

Here is the new type of back death after my latest mod.

New Black Death E85:
Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Recently my car caught on fire and it now gone. I'm saying this bc I want to wish good luck to this project as I'm leaving the mazdaspeed scene. Enjoy your rides and consider keeping a fire extinguisher in the car. It could have saved my ms6. I don't mean to derail the thread, so don't worry about posting about this. Enjoy all

So it feels gritty or like a fuckin booger?

This post is conflicting. Discovering a new type of black death doesn't really bode well, but 6k miles does. I'm assuming this is using your injection system to keep the pump healthy...?

Let's not call it black death that was incorrect. Let's call it brown mushy goo. @pzr2874; It is soft, and not sticky. I found this after my initial test of the new method. After I re installed the pump I have not touched it. I assume the goo is in my pump, just not affecting operation.

I threw that injection mod shit out the window. It was pretty fun playing with and it worked OK, but for my daily driver it was impractical. I wanted to keep this simplified




Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Yes, more like a soft booger. You know, not hard but not too wet. Just a nice well rounded boogie that you can flick and stick on the window at work.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

So in essence, it could go away the longer it stays there. Did you take it apart for giggles or because of drops in pressure?

I took it apart after a few hundred miles just to see if the new idea did anything different. Sure enough, it did. I have been seeing how far I can go, and the results have been incredible.

I will admit I have taken my spill valve apart before every long road trip just for piece of mind, not because of failure. When I change my oil i will take my pump apart, I'll take some pictures with some instructions on how I did everything. Then I guess I will need to find a new hobby.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

I'll see about getting more testers for whatever this new method is on board here in AZ.

That is awesome if you think have this figured out well enough to make full E(or even aggressive blends like past 50/50) a practical option for this platform. I guess it begs the question, what can the stock fuel system support power-wise on full E? @rfinkle2 @TiGraySpeed6

So... We did determine the running redline fuel system cleaner helped though, right? Even if it isn't used as an automated injection system?

I can say @twenty5psi; , stock turbo, bolted (minus mani's) making about 300 @ 3000ASL, I was running 105% + IDC's @ 11.8 afr.

Edit: on full E

Two things.

1. 50/50 is fine for extended periods of time. I ran it for years. This has been covered in this very thread numerous times.

2. Big turbo cars will be limited on how much they can flow boost/GS wise. I ran out of fuel @ 10 PSI on my EFR, but I had fuel pump issues so no idea what it would be at now.

I'm out of fuel on 50/50 at 15psi on a 3076.

Whoops! I meant to say past 50/50, but seems useless for most people to blend past 50/50;at that point you're not going to see K04 gains and BT you'd need more fuel. I figured on full E you could run into fueling issues even on the K04.

Yes. I ran out of fuel on the K04. After a lot of fine tuning and work I was able to successfully maintain fuel pressure and IDC without sacrificing airflow. I am worried about winter though.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Do you have stock boost control/boost reference or have you modded ebcs/reference/wga?

I'm using the GrimmSpeed 3-port in interrupt mode. Stock wastegate actuator.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Boost sourced from compressor or intake manifold?

Right from the compressor good sir @udntknw;

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Elevation is a hell of a thing.

Have you tried or seen the Lucas oil ethanol treatment? It says prevents gunk but doesn't say what is in it. Just saw it at the store and going to grab a bottle

Try reading literally anything in this section dip shit

I am not sure, give it a shot. If you want to experiment with different cleaners make sure you Check the data sheets. Look for items with high concentrations of PolyEther Amine and Aliphatic Naphtha.
These are the agents that will help keep the death at bay. And keep your SV from getting sticky.



Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

sorry must have stepped on your ego. Was at the store looking at them and forgot that was mentioned. Anyways....shall we continue with the path we are on.

No you wasted everyone's time. Go to the corner and feel bad about yourself.

Easter bunny....you hurt my feelings with the words you used and I would like an apology or you can just end your life whatever is easier on you...not really but you get the point that this argument you hold has a greater affect on your life

Uh oh someone's feelings got hurt.

Here is the stuff I plan on trying, Solvent naphtha (petroleum), medium aliphatic 60 - 100%

.http://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-tr...th-stabilizers

Just start your own thread instead of cluttering up a useful one.

Do you even know what this thread is about? Fuel additives....... The lack of knowledge you have astonishes me.:grouphug: Anyways I think you have made your point and you can stop taking up a thread. From my experience though it seems as if the stick in your ass isn't going away anytime soon :hug:

How about you both stop being faggots before threadbans come out.

Do the research/testing, post results. Post ideas, possible solutions, or confirm other findings. Enough bullshit.

Here is a Data Log Attachment 170359 to expose how well the pump is working. It sure does not have trouble pumping E fuel or maintaining pressure; Even after 5,000 + miles of straight E85 without any additive treatment in the fuel. I am going to try to change my oil tomorrow. Lets all hope I find the time to do so and to post up some info for you.

I'm excited to hear what youre currently doing for 5k plus miles on E, just caught up with the thread today.

Ohh im excited!

I bought the fuel additive, but idk if i want to use it...So i just been doing a 60/40 mix for now cause im out of fuel on the 35r after 5k.... Hooking up PI this week.

Got the pump out yesterday. Here is what the internals and pump looked like. The bore was not seized on the piston, it came apart with ease. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...20e8499380.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...48757593f8.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...4a8e06e4d1.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...ee79369177.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...7bebb14646.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...168ff45a17.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...66b531564f.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...7785bef093.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6d12966713.jpg

The crap on the piston was not sticky, it was like chalk or a powder and wiped away with ease. So this new method should help keep costs down for people who want to run E all the time like I do, since it only uses a few MLs per pump rebuild.

Are you still taking the pump apart and dropping 2 mL in every night after shut down or are you doing it less frequently?