One full tank of E down, and mostly all is well. Since I have been monitoring FP like a hawk, I can actually pinpoint the exact point when my PRV started to shit the bed :) Oh well, I wanted a 2150 anyway.

2150 will not work.
2050 maybe.

You will not be able to keep from hitting fuel cut with anything over say 2050

Tappin

Stay stock, or buy my 2075. I'll post a thread if you're interested.

ewwwww, Enki is about to get a vacation! lolz :D

4sale Nazis comin, er, wait, is that supposed to be cumming?

675 miles with zero hints of any kind of pressure related issue so far.

*knocks on wood*

Nah I'm not actually trying to sell anything outside of the rules. If he has interest, I'll obey the rules and post a thread on it.

pshhhhh
you know I'm just causing trouble.....
no cares eh?

Well if I get banned, then I'll only be updating Facebook for 30 days or whatever the ban is.

Better watch your attitude. [emoji38]

I never had problems with my stock PRV, have you figured out how much more volume you get with a 200 psi change and e85's viscosity? Can't be that much...



Sent from my iPhone 6

Couldn't tell you. All I can say is that I'm MUCH happier on the stock one.

IIRC, it's not the relief valve, but the pressure sensor that's the issue and that it reads substantially below the relief valve...

Thanks fellas. I'm aware of the issues and the fact that the sensor maxes out a little over 2050. I only plan to command 1950 at WOT. I want some room between my commanded pressure and PRV crack pressure.

from my experience, it doesn't matter what you command, within reason, it will bang the FP sensor limit and you will face plant into your steering wheel. This is well documented.

I was commanding around 1600 above 5K (logging 1990s) with my 2150 and around 6K the pump is moving so fast it will still peg the sensor limit. Some guys have had luck tuning the 2050s and maybe a 2075 but I think its a PITA to get all the CDFP tables just right then the weather changes and bang.

but hey I'll line up for a ban with Enki and sell you my 2150 if you are a glutton for punishment.

:)

It's already on it's way, so I may have to learn the hard way. I read threads with people describing the experiences you mention, but I also read many accounts where people had no issues. We'll see in a couple days.

I was commanding 1250 @ 7k and 2.0 load and it would still hit cut.

Currently, on a stock PRV, I'm still peaking > 2k PSI on full corn.

yeah...its a losing battle. IIRC when I 1st installed the 2150 it worked and I commanded in two tiers. Below ~ 5ish K I asked for 1835 and got 1950ish and above 5K I asked for somewhere in the 1600's and got 1950ish.

somewhere along the line..maybe winter or when I had (or thought I had) the ITFP and CDFP issues it started banging the sensor limit and I never got it to work right again after the beforementioned issues were resolved.

LSS (Long Story Short) I am running my 07 OEM RV...lol

the pressure increase, and minimal fueling overhead, is not worth the trouble.

I'm going in with my eyes wide open. Some people had issues, some didn't. I like to experiment.

I have a theory that I unfortunately won't be able to prove one way or the other. In ATR you can set fuel cut limits for boost, but we know that the ECU won't cut fuel immediately when you exceed that threshold (you have to be over for a period of time). I'm guessing it's a similar situation for fuel rail pressure exceeding the sensor limit.

I'm also guessing that not every PTP valve has a consistent flow rate when it cracks (also possible the crack pressures may not be set as accurately as they claim...). These variables, as well as how well a given spill valve regulates rail pressure, could mean the difference between triggering fuel cut or not.

So what I'm basically saying is I'm hoping to get lucky :) If I wanted nice steady FP with my stock PRV I had to stick with commanding 1669. I'm willing to gamble a bit on the chance for a 16-20% increase in pressure.

Well, I ain't no bitch, so decided to go back to full e. Should be a little more fun now that I'll be able to tell how much of it I actually have... Until the sender decides to shit out again...

You are correct. I dug deeper and found that this fuel pump internal is new to the market. It finished its beta testing around 2014. Also the bore on the APR/CPE is 9.5mm and IE's pump is 9.8(same as Autotech) so there is absolutely no way this is a CPE. I wonder what that guy was talking about... Hum?

It will be interesting to see how these hold up on corn. Could have great results, or it could cause unforeseen failures. Either way should be fun. They will arrive tomorrow. I will most likely get some used AT's and install them in my spare pump incase I'm left stranded on the road. Now I just have to dig around for some loose change so I can buy a new AP.


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When you unmarry an AP, does it throw the stock tune back on the ecu? If not, I'll sacrifice mine for you @littleloogy; until you can replace yours..

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Yes.

Aww... I tried.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...d45fde2940.jpg

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^This.

You can reduce and taper your fp settings to keep pressure near or below the RV crack point. May keep you from wearing it out prematurely. Not sure if maybe my original speed 6 just had a shitty valve to begin with but it only made it a couple of months before wrecking the rv at 1900-2000psi.

^and this.



I replaced a bad RV on my speed 6 a few years back with a 2050. Never got it to work. Even with 1200psi commanded tapering to like 900 psi it still ran away to 2000+. John at PTP got upset with me and repeatedly told me it was a tune issue not a hardware issue heh. Replaced it with a stock unit and the problem went away, wierd eh?

With that second stock unit, and my oem RV in my speed 3 now, I've got FP set at 1600psi tapering to 1500psi or so up top to keep pressure below the 1850psi crack point of the valve. I have played with it as well and haven't seen any gains to be had when going from 1600 psi to 2000psi anyway.

Basically, even IF you get it to work by severely decreasing and tapering your fp settings in ATR, which may not even be possible at all, you won't see any benefit from it. Also, what happens if/when your internals begin to fail and now you actually achieve say...900 psi at WOT.....is it a risk you want to take when there isn't any benefit anyway?

Also, it is not at all like boost cut. When I experienced it is was much faster, and it happened in all gears, and it was ghey. And not like the good "MSF ghey". Just actual ghey.

I have a 1975 rail valve...anything larger than that and it wouldn't work, regardless of the tune. I had a 2050 initially but had to send it back. I even let John try to tune the fuel tables, and he could not get it to work. The 1975 works great...but if its in around 35 degrees I will still get the cut at around 5700rpms. When its warmer it isn't an issue. John sells a 1950 rail valve. This is with Autotech internals though, other brands might play different.

This is the difference between too big a rail valve and stock on my car, roughly the same tune (pay attention to how I handle the 1st and 2nd gear redlines):

2075 PRV:
Also notice how I shift a bit early...


Stock PRV:

Touch faster out of the hole.

Thank you sir, but Worry not. I already ordered one. And I had enough crash to pay my taxes, Winning.


Sent from my iPhone 6

So a little update, seems the replacement fuel sender is already shitting the bed. Just filled up again, and i'm missing 1 bar... I'm really surprised that it would go after only a couple weeks, being brand new. After this tank I think I'll just throw 93 in there and run that for a couple weeks, see if it does anything, if not, fuck it. I really don't see myself replacing it again, not anytime soon at least.

Had some fun racing this e85 fueled WRX on the way back from the gas station. Went 3 times, were neck and neck each time. Netiher pulling on the other, cool dude.

I bet it was nice to have a fuel gauge again. I have not had one for 15,000 miles. The dealer said they would put a new ITFP free of charge. (Warranty)So I'm waiting for the part to come in so I can get that done. I think I've been on petrol long enough where they won't suspect anything.


Sent from my iPhone 6

Honestly it was very nice, and no other lights on the dash also. Now to just do a lot of random driving because I want to get pump back in there asap and see if that "fixes" it for the time being. If not, once my under-pipe kit from HTP comes and I start taking things off to put that on, I'll pull the sender again and see what it looks like.

Maybe I could just put a night vision camera in the tank, install another 3" screen on the dash, wire it up, and just look at my fuel level through there to know when i'm getting low, lol.

For some reason the word speculum comes to mind. Where's Chris Hanson at lmao

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Dammit, why did you jerks have to be right? I installed the 2150 psi RV and took my car out for a good flogging and a couple 4th gear pulls, all with no issues. I was getting optimistic when the next day I was running through the gears at WOT and there it was: fuel cut. Fuck.

I'll have a stock RV tomorrow and I'll be returning the 2150. Good news is I was able to swap the RV in about 20 minutes (only had to remove my intake).

Other good news more relevant to this thread is I'm on my third tank of E85 with no issues :)

You want headahce? try bringing the rpm up without being under load. I bet you can't get very far past 5k before it cuts.

I'll take your word for it :) Taking it easy until I get this damn thing off my engine. Pretty fucked up they're still selling these.

He probably had a million of them made for like $50 from somewhere.

I've got a few suggestions for what he can do with the extras.

More E85 news: loss of traction on dry concrete on back to back fourth gear pulls on Saturday. 50 degrees ambient, 235 40 18 Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports that were well warmed up. I should probably tweak my tune a bit...

Yeah, I used to spin in 4th, then I mounted 235's now I spin my clutch.


Sent from my iPhone 6

I'm getting a lot more afterfires since switching to full E, maybe a couple a day during shifting. Does that make sense? I have a catless DP.

I get afterfires fairly often on 93 between shifts. Usually hard acceleration between 2-3. I'm completely catless.


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I wasn't getting any went I was full e i'm catless DP also. Fuel trims look ok?

Fuel trims look great. Single digits.

I only get afterfires when the engine is really hot from stop and go traffic or having it parked for a few minutes after running.

I would get/still get them rather often. But I attribute that to the VTA bov.

the more open the exhaust system the more prone to after fires as you have removed the muffling effectiveness of the orig system in both reduction of mechanical barriers to the sound (baffles/CATs) and fluid dynamics (backpressure). Add alternate fueling and it will almost always happen.

Within ATR you can modify the Shift Control Tables (Beta) to reduce or enhance it with:

IGN timing clutch in/out
Ign timing (Throttle Closed)

@Enki. your ECT compensation within the above tables is likely why it only occurs when the car is hot..tweak them to reduce the negative ign (-13.5) and you may reduce or eliminate it. (that is if you care lol) cut that in half -7.00 and see what it does. Ignore the low ECT tables and only mod the others.

I have def changed the characteristics of my afterfires with these tables. I think you can even tune them out completely with a VTA setup which is quite an accomplishment.

I believe these tables are also used in part for MegaSpool/antilag. i.e. clutch out = more neg timing ( more afterfires/spool)...throttle closed = more fuel delivery (also afterfires/spool). they will also spool the turbo with little to no load for boost at launch.

I must learn this...
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...03c0ae41cb.jpg

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Thanks @Dano;, though it's rare enough that I (still) enjoy shooting fireballs at the people behind me.

haha I thought as much. I can't shift without after fires with any more than ~40% throttle...I think that happens to coincide with my WMI kicking it at >8PSI.

I had it tuned out at some point but then changed E85 ratio/scalar/offset, or Meth nozzle size or any number of other variables changed and I have not cared to go back in and tweak it.

Keeps the peeps around me honest :)

lol surely there is an entire thread dedicated to it but IDK where. The drag racers especially, have used them a lot. IIRC some launch at 20+PSI.

@Realgib3; do you know of any threads that cover this (see my post below #844 ) or are you guys keeping it a secret ;)

So now that I have a job again, i has monies. So I am ordering a few a few fuel level senders and will be soaking them in E85. I will be applying different treatments to each test subject. Once I get it figured on the bench I'll throw it in my car for some more testing.


Sent from my iPhone 6

so Mark comes in here and likes a post but totally ignores my request for knowledge on the megaspool...guess that is an answer of sorts regarding its secrecy. :)

let's try this again...ya know just to make sure...

@Realgib3;

No you didn't... Lmao 1hr... Wanted to hulk smash my phone three minutes in....

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Maybe start with the obvious and compare genWIN pump assembly with a genPU?

I wish I was being sly with that, but really I haven't fully tested anything. It's all in Nishan's head at this point.

O I C.

Then I say, off with his head!

So, little update that doesn't really pertain to much about e85. I've been trying to empty my tank by driving around (yes I know there are easier ways, but they aren't as much fun), so I can go back to 93 and see if it fixes the fuel sender problem since I just replaced it around a month and a week ago I believe and it shouldn't be dead this quickly.

This morning as I was driving down past my local shell station, I was literally 500-750 feet away, I feel my car hiccup a bit, and just kind of go limp. I'm literally able to coast to the light, turn left, then turn into the Shell station, and stop at a pump. Tried to start the car, no gas. Either I'm fucking awesome with my calculations, or I'm just lucky, i'd like to think i'm fucking awesome, but that's just my opinion.

I filled up 93, switched to my 93 tune, drove home, fuel level went up to 2 bars, CEL went off for the fuel level sender. So going to see if this fixes the "problem". Hopefully it will keep going up the more I drive. If so, I might just be staying on pump for a while (groan, i know, but I do like knowing how much fuel I have).

If I still have an issue with the sender, then fuck it, back to full e85. Also, I haven't done anything to the fuel pump, or added anything since about a month ago when I put about a half bottle of SI-1 in the tank and went to a 50/50 mix, after a fill-up with e85 started giving the sender problems already. So if this doesn't work, and I go back full e85, I still won't touch the pump and see how long before/any/if problems arise, for science!

Was your issue on the connector or on the float arm? Can't remember, and the phone isn't search friendly. @g00s3y;?

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Right where the pins connect, was completely corroded. This time I don't know what it looks like yet. I haven't been motivated enough to pull it again and look. Maybe when I do the battery relocation I will check again.

Went 70 miles so far today, fuel level is only showing 2 bars, and range says 63 miles left. When I filled up, range was at 37 left.

I have a GenWin, so only speculating here but maybe next time you replace the dielectric grease with an RTV?

Permatex® Clear RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant 3oz Tube 80050

Temp, chem resistant etc like the grease but would be a more permanent seal as opposed to being subject to washing off gradually.
@Enki; @littleloogy; thoughts?

Yeah, i'm definitely down to try something else the next time I replace it. Not sure when that will be though. On my second tank of 93 right now, fuel level went to 2 bars again after fill up. Range started at 53, drove about 15-20 miles, went down to 36. Came back out from Target, started it up, range was 56. After last night and driving this morning, it is back down to range 0 and 0 bars for fuel level, after doing 83 miles.

I'm actually going to be free tomorrow, I may pull it to inspect since I can get to it from the top. I won't be replacing it, but I'll post up some pics of what it looks like if I inspect.

I'm really questioning how this new sender went so quickly (lasted less than 2000 miles), when the original one went 53k+ until problems started.

I think the issue is that the contacts corrode so using RTV will just permanently keep them from working...Unless I'm misunderstanding the situation there's not a way to keep the fuel off of them (which is what causes the corrosion) without disabling the fuel level sender.

Maybe it would be better to either solder over each individual pad or replace the contacts with something that won't fail like this...

Just out of curiosity, maybe I missed it, but has anyone ran the RP Dexos oil without S1?

Doing it now with IE internals over 900 miles without issue.


Sent from my iPhone 6

Yeah, I did. It lasted far, far longer without issue than my car did on T6, but alas, it too was short lived (< 2 tanks before spill valve issues, which, arguably, was an easy fix but came back again anyways).

I'm well over 1k miles now, without a hiccup. Also, I have not touched my pump since the last time, which was several months before I even switched over to full corn.

Hmm I think I misunderstood how the contacts were being exposed. Are they open to fuel intentionally? I was under the assumption the fuel was simply seeping in between the connection points and then getting at the actual contacts, which is why I suggested RTV.

Going off of this picture it seems the contacts themselves could be covered/sealed completely in with RTV. It won't affect the signal as the line underneath is still complete. We did this in the Navy all the time with wires and connections for jet parts that had to deal with corrosion.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...1&d=1430738432

Though in another thread @Voltwings; said he "covered" his contacts with "silicon" so IDK if he meant RTV or what? Or whether it worked out for him.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ensors-119655/


For the life of me i cant remember what i used. It may have been some sort of di-electric grease?

You running E? Or did you switch back to petroleum?


Sent from my iPhone 6

Sold the car a while back, but i want to say i ran the car for another ... probably 40-45k miles after that fix on a 25% E85 blend with no issues.

So, i dont know if i should attribute it working to the grease / silicone, or going down in concentration, but going down in concentration on other cars i tuned seems to have prevented that problem for them. Lots of ifs, ands, and buts, but that's my assessment of the situation.

Ah, got you. I'll tell you what. I'll test this sometime in the future on your behalf with 100%E. If it works then we will give you credit for fixing the gen2 fuel level sender unit.


Sent from my iPhone 6

I used di-electric grease on mine when I replaced it, still went dead within a couple months. Was doing 50/50 for a week or two I believe, then went to full e and on the 3rd fillup it started going out. I switched back to 93 only, hoping that might help, and still nothing.

I wonder if there is just something that makes some cars more prone than others, because it seems a lot of people who have this problem have had it multiple times, and usually in quick succession after the first replacement ... interesting.

Deluxe Liquid Gold Plating System Jewelry Immersion Kit Gold Plating Kit | eBay

"It will NOT work, however, on stainless steel, lead, pewter, tin, aluminum, lacquered or non-metallic surfaces."

I'm not sure what the current contact is made from, but it might be worth $30 to try it.

E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=164812

Post 372 and so on...


Sent from my iPhone 6

So, just pulled mine again, here's what it looks like.

E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives
 

You have a meter?

Edit: Does it ohm out okay?


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To be honest, I didn't even check, could clearly see the corrosion and that it wasn't making contact. Phone pictures, sorry they couldn't be better. Just finished soldering it and will be checking everything before it gets all put back together.

That a baby. Hope it works!


Sent from my iPhone 6

She's alive!!!!

E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives
 

Great now go dump your gas tank on the ground and get some EEEeeeee!


Sent from my iPhone 6

Just an update, went out to my car today, started her up, gauge reads 0...

So, pulled it again, found out the contacts on the little "swinger arm" were no longer touching, must have bent them reassembling. Bent them back a little bit so they would make contact, all is now good.

Cutting up the interior a little to get to this thing was the greatest idea ever, because fuck dropping the tank each time to do this...

You want to rig it so there is clamping force on the contacts. Mine still working great! It sure is depressing watching how fast my fuel level drops.


Sent from my iPhone 6

I didn't mean where the wire connects up top, but where the little piece that the arm attaches to, the 2 contacts on the back of that piece were almost flat on the back. Just bent them forward some and all was good.

E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives
 

That's what I was referring to...


Sent from my iPhone 6

Oh, sorry... :smokin: lol

Forgot to post this update. My car finally started having issues.

Was going up the local mountain a couple weeks ago, no issues. Pulled off with some friends at the first vantage point and chilled there for a while. Went to restart the car and it was running like shit, but that was due to the MAF wiring issue I've got. Fix that real quick, and start on my way (low rpm cruising) and every now and then it would buck.

This pissed me off, so I beat the fuck out of it and it started behaving properly again...until the trip down (after sitting). Started getting a touch worse, but nothing serious or permanent.

So, after getting home, I pulled the spill valve, checked it for sticky and found none; just some discoloring. Grabbed up my trusty syringe and sucked out as much fuel from the internals cavity as possible, and injected redline in its place. Did this a couple times, and the next start it ran kinda shitty for about half a mile and hasn't had an issue since.

Oh, and I didn't clean anything.

Pics attached.

Any ideas what was going on?

Probably the beginnings of black death on the internals, if it wasn't my MAF (couldn't tell, happened to fast to log).

How bout we just say fuck it and stop trying for 100% Eth when we only need 4/8 blends on shitty Cali piss for MBT and call it a day :rocketwhore:

Cause swiping the credit card twice is inconvenient.

E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives
 

My car has been on 100% eth for some time now, I'd say close to a year with no issue, however the past 6 months the car has been garaged and only started onc a week and left idling for 20-25 min without issue.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say I've got nearly a year on this pump since the last full rebuild. I'm thinking that squirting shit in the spill valve area a couple times once a year is a fair price to pay for full corn.

I've been running different mixes of ethanol for a little over 3 years, and here are my experiences with it:

I had the black gummy crap on my injectors a few times after 500 miles when I filled up with E50 or higher at shady gas stations. My hypothesis is that these gas stations, when they switched over to Ethanol, used secondhand gas/diesel tanks to fill up the ethanol with so they could maximize on the subsidy that the government was handing out for the Ethanol Initiative. I cleaned up my injectors by removing the crud with a toothpick and soaking them overnight in carb cleaner. Shade Tree Gas Stations had the most mediocre blends. Once, I filled up with E85 and got E57. Never went back to that place. EVER.

However, whenever I went to a busy gas station on the side of the interstate, like Speedway or Shell, I didn't have any problems of any kind. Because they were moving the product, my hypothesis was that phase separation was kept to a minimum since it wasn't allowed to sit for very long. Fresh Ethanol kept coming along. Also, the highway ethanol gas stations had the most consistent blends.

Also, whenever I visited a local Thorton's, which was a gas station with a brand new tank, I would receive the sticky clear goo after 1200 miles. My hypothesis for this is that the gas portion was secretly being mixed with really low octane fuel without additives. To combat it, I added some seafoam to the car every 5th fill up, and the clear goo never came back.

When I did my testing, I used test strips in the beginning, but then I switched over to a Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer to make life easy.

For all of you claiming they are mixing such and such with such and such, how are you verifying your percentages? I can tell you, firsthand, that Ethanol pump percentages vary like a woman on her period.



Also, if you're looking for a good oil which works well with high concentrations of ethanol, try Mobil 1 Full Synethic 5w-40 for Turbo Diesel Trucks. The ethanol didn't cause this oil to separate nowhere near as bad as it did when I used Rotella T6 5w-40 or other oils. The 5w40 TDT has a lot of extra detergents\additives to help make sure that the oil remains stable in the presence of ethanol. Also, a quality baffled catch will really help your oil quality!

MAFCAL within +-5% on pump gas, then swap over and watch trims. It will show.

We don't have problems with our injectors getting gummed up. It's a fuel pump problem. I get my fuel from a brand new station that did not get dumped into an old diesel tank. I still experienced black and sticky death in my pump.

I don't recognize this platform. Please help us understand where you are coming from.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...185e975e25.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...9adc50e337.jpg




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^^^ What he said.

Lots of people don't "get" that the disi-mzr platform is unlike any other port injected platform when it comes to tuning and fuel. The same rules don't apply.

The port in the head reminds me of a Honda. But I'm probably wrong.

I understand that it's not in the same location, but I posted to try to help spark some newer creative ideas and solutions which are specific to this platform. TDI guys have this problem as well, and their solution is to switch tunes and to run on 93 for 3 weeks every 3rd month. Neons also have problems with Ethanol chewing up our fuel level senders as well as clogged fuel pump filter socks with nastiness in them. We don't have a "real" solution for it.

I am from the DIY (If you wanna go fast, build your shit from scratch) First Gen (95-99) Neon platform. We don't have vendors nowhere near in abundance as you guys, so we do a lot of searching from other platforms to find solutions to our problems. I only posted in hopes that the information would trigger a few light bulbs to go off and think of a solution from a different angle.

Again, I also had the black crap from a new tank at a new gas station. My hypothesis was that the owner was being cheap and not adding way below the minimum amount of additives to the 15/20 percent ethanol mix. Half a bottle of Seafoam every 5th fill up cleaned it up. Maybe you guys need some seafoam every 3rd fill up. Your Mileage May Vary.

That port is from an 01 PT Cruiser head with SRT4 Injectors rated at 55lb/577cc's. Only Honda motor I have is a lawn mower.

Are you saying running full E or a percentage to use a half bottle of seafoam in the tank every fifth fill up? (Sorry I've been going in and out of this thread, so I am going to guess full E).

No. You won't make it through a tank without some sort of additive in the pump.

Yeah, you guys need to actually read the thread. The whole thing.