E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives

[Enki]

Try to get the one with the DEXXOS label. THAT is the monster shit there.

[MSP6]

Mmmmmm.....corn.

[MSP6]

3/4 of a tank down @ 200 miles, should be 250-260ish to the tank which while not great is a far cry from the 150 miles that @Enki; 's tester got, and only 40-50 miles less per tank than I got on 93. This is with a handful of logs, some dicking around and a run in with a 370z that left him butthurt x3.
@Enki; that dude must have a HELL of a lead foot lol.

[Enki]

That and his trips are short so the car might not be fully up to temp too (big impact on mileage; has to spray extra fuel to account for the fuel that doesn't vaporize when it hits the piston).

With the proper tune and bolt ons, you *can* get as good MPG as you got stock; driving style is the tank breaker though.

[MSP6]

Ah ok.

Yeah I expect once the newandshiny of full E85 wears off I'll make some mpg tweaks and see how close I can get to my 93 mileage.....which wasn't very good anyways heh.

[Enki]

The single best piece of advice I can give for full corn MPG is to shift a lot earlier than you're used to...It makes so much more torque down low it's ridiculous; you'll have to experiment but I vaguely recall shifting before 2500 rpm and cruising 45 mph in 6th.

[MSP6]

But then how will I hear my bpv at every shift???? I insist EVERYONE in traffic around me knows I haz turbo.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by MSP6 But then how will I hear my bpv at every shift???? I insist EVERYONE in traffic around me knows I haz turbo.

Get an air compressor, regulator and a 12volt solenoid. Every time you want to go "pshhh" all you have to do is hit a button. Now you can save fuel and go "pshhh" as much as you want.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by littleloogy Get an air compressor, regulator and a 12volt solenoid. Every time you want to go "pshhh" all you have to do is hit a button. Now you can save fuel and go "pshhh" as much as you want. Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

Someone has already made a product to replicate the noise!

[udntknw]

I can tell you, I have had my car since December of 2006. The "new and shiny" doesn't wear off. No matter the fuel you use.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by udntknw I can tell you, I have had my car since December of 2006. The "new and shiny" doesn't wear off. No matter the fuel you use.

This.

From the thread: The questions part of Ethanol FAQ - Direct Injection specific

Originally Posted by Enki Q: Should I run straight ethanol or some kind of mixture? (Mixtures of Gallons E85 / Gallons Gasoline) 3/11 yields E26 and is good for a moderate increase in power/torque. 50/50 yields E48 and is good for the standard, sneaking through the bushes rape. Straight E85 is good for cell block rape.

This is, quite literally, the most apt way to explain the differences in potential power between the mixes (not factoring in cars with meth). If you think the above is false, consider that the current Tucson test vechile was on a moderate tune with 50/50 and nearly shit himself with *less* boost on full E, as per his comments I've pasted in this thread earlier.

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by Enki This. From the thread: The questions part of Ethanol FAQ - Direct Injection specific This is, quite literally, the most apt way to explain the differences in potential power between the mixes (not factoring in cars with meth). If you think the above is false, consider that the current Tucson test vechile was on a moderate tune with 50/50 and nearly shit himself with *less* boost on full E, as per his comments I've pasted in this thread earlier.

If you have an e20/e48 mix already, other than the obvious fuel density changes, what else are you doing in the tunes?

A e48 mix allows you to exceed MBT already, just wondering what the difference is in it...

[Enki]

The chemical formula for Ethanol is C2H6O; this is important for that last little atom on the end (oxygen). The more you spray into the cylinder, the greater the cooling effect, and the more oxygen that comes in WITH the fuel; thus, compounding the amount of fuel you can burn (via charge cooling AND chemical addition of oxygen).

I assure you, the difference between 50/50 and 100% is impressive.

Edit: This would be with the same timing/AFR/boost targets; boost targets, incidentally, become more difficult to hit on full e85 as the airflow into the cylinder goes up with WGDC already pegged; thus, a drop in available peak boost. At last check, I think the Tucson test car was hitting 4.4 MAF volts @ 14 PSI (Mazdaspeed CAI converted to SRI) in cooler weather.

Edit 2: Trimmed log attached; car is not making full WGDC in this log; still, shits bonkers.

[SarcasticOne]

Thanks @Enki; really appreciate you sharing your knowledge

I'm looking to go full e85 early next year (e85 station 2km up the road) so am following yours and @littleloogy;'s results through all this closely

[Enki]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Thanks @Enki; really appreciate you sharing your knowledge I'm looking to go full e85 early next year (e85 station 2km up the road) so am following yours and @littleloogy;'s results through all this closely

Well the fact that loogy added a little redline to his pump after it was already fucked with black death and that brought it back to life is pretty fucking amazing in my book; makes me tempted to try it and see how much boost I can make (now that my pump is back to working properly). I still need to do a leakdown/compression test, but that's a whole different thread.

[twenty5psi]

I want to see someone spray some meth on 100% E, shit would have combustion temps cooler than ambient temps(I keed)! Might be nessesary to add some fueling headroom anyways to max out the K04 with full E. 350whp?

[Enki]

There's a limit to how cool you *want* the boost temps. Too low, and the e85 wont atomize properly, causing poor combustion and loss in power. I'd say 80 is probably the lowest you'd want, with 100 being probably pretty close to perfect (per findings of others).

If I were to switch back to full e85, I'd probably start with a baseline run and drop my wmi nozzle size then compare the two (same day). I'm pretty sure too cold and it doesn't run as good.

[littleloogy]

Here is some more info to think about:
I run Methanol in my karts (Briggs flathead). Temperature of the head plays role in combustion. When the head temps lower id est 60-190°, the performance suffers. I have to manually lean my fuel mixture out while i am warming up to get my temps above 220° before my kart starts to make good power. Then I have to richen the mixture back to maintain that temp. When I am racing, the hotter my temp gets the more power my kart has. When the temps get colder my performance suffers.

I suggest that increasing our engine coolant temperature to help yield more power with the same amount of fuel. Is there any after market thermostats available for our platform?


Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

[Enki]

I'm not sure ECTs are the way to go, when just dialing back the intercooling can yield the same effect; I do remember (vaguely) that when I was on full corn, the car would run like complete shit until the ECTs hit a magical number (between 100 and 140 IIRC) and then it would just come alive. After that, though, there were no performance detriments based on ECTs that I can recall.

[Enki]

Potential failure in the local test car. 3 full tanks gone without issue, currently on the 4th. 45 seconds to start today, constantly breaking up when trying to drive led to using his daily instead. Cause still unknown, but assuming fuel pressure loss.

Diagnosis, cause analysis and repair process information will be forthcoming when available.

[littleloogy]

It is unfortunate that Rotella and E just don't mix together. I jumped back on board with the additive testing with RP to verify my pervious results.

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

[Enki]

Yep his hpfp took a shit. 50-60 psi @ idle. I'll be heading down to tear it down and diagnose in about 3 hours or so.

I'll be getting the test car to switch over to RP at some point as well, because he don't wanna go back.

[Enki]

OK so I forgot to bring *all* the tools needed to do a full breakdown, and I have limited time for lunch today due to surprise customer buttsecks so I took the pump home with me for detailed analysis and cleaning later today.

Strangely, even though the outside of the spill valve was somewhat sticky, the needle itself was not. The internals, however, do not move freely and are definitely short stroking/sticking.

The pump (inside) looks terrible.

Here's a sneak preview of the horrors that await me:

[PapaSmurf]

so far so good on my VR1.

The car has 1 tank through it and currently on my 2nd tank, dont drive it much though.

[Enki]

Even one full tank is still progress. I'm assuming that the local here was getting about 200/tank, maybe a bit less, but still, that's between 500 and 600 miles on T6 before it crapped out.

I'll take that progress any day.

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by Enki Even one full tank is still progress. I'm assuming that the local here was getting about 200/tank, maybe a bit less, but still, that's between 500 and 600 miles on T6 before it crapped out. I'll take that progress any day.

I think I got 150 miles out of the first tank lolol

lead foot.

[pzr2874]

@Enki; Was that on AT's?

[Enki]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 @Enki; Was that on AT's?

Yes but that doesn't really matter, and anyone that tells you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Hint: the most disgusting pump I've ever seen came off a stock cx7 and had stock internals. When I got it, the part that bolts to the head (that the pump bolts to too) was included because the pump couldn't be removed without significant force (I had to use a vice and pry bar and all kinds of sick shit). I get nightmares to this day about that pump.

I will note that the difference between cleaning this pump with the additive used previously and a pump that had not used it was significant; just squirting a bit on some of the parts removed gunk/sticky down to bare metal, which prompted me to fill a bowl with naphtha and let shit roll around for a bit (this got most of it off, but I did use q-tips and paper towels for the thick shit).

It took a bit longer than it usually does for me to clean a pump, but I flushed it out real good as there were bits of black shit in the buffer compartment that needed to get the fuck out. Otherwise, it was easy. Hopefully I'll be able to get this car back on the road in a couple hours, depending on if/when the owner wakes up.

Anywho, this is what the damage was (warning, full-res pictures):

(Not pictured: I also tore my pants.)

[PapaSmurf]

I'm hoping this is just because rotella. Even if my pump only lasts two tanks, it takes me about a month to go through 2 tanks. So I would be more then willing to rebuild a pump every two tanks. Takes a whole 20 min if that.

[Enki]

It probably is because rotella. Honestly, it might even be feasible to just pull the spill valve and flush with the redline, which I was going to try but couldn't find an automotive syringe that would allow me to do that. It's on the list for next time, which will come in another 3-4 tanks most likely.

[cocoanton]

So what oils are recommended, here in europe we dont have same asortment of oils, can't find royal purple or rotella for example. I see papasmurf mentioning VR1, if that is Valvoline we can get that. Best source right now for oil for me is http://opieoils.co.uk or http://mapodo.de (mostly castrol). What are we looking for in an oil going full E on our platform?

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by cocoanton So what oils are recommended, here in europe we dont have same asortment of oils, can't find royal purple or rotella for example. I see papasmurf mentioning VR1, if that is Valvoline we can get that. Best source right now for oil for me is http://opieoils.co.uk or http://mapodo.de (mostly castrol). What are we looking for in an oil going full E on our platform?

Been wondering similar things... A full oil change of royal purple is just over $100 ($85-90 US at current exchange rates) here in Australia...

We have http://castroledge.com.au/oils/ much more readily available...

[Zimmo]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Been wondering similar things... A full oil change of royal purple is just over $100 ($85-90 US at current exchange rates) here in Australia... We have Our strongest ever Castrol EDGE range of oils | Castrol EDGE Australia much more readily available...

I went from Motul 300v to HPR 5 5W-40 and it seems to be fine, I am running a full tank of E85 on my current tune with SI-1 will see when I run out of gas in a few weeks

[SarcasticOne]

Considering doing the @Enki; e85 + oil boiling test... Figure that's about the only way you'd be able to find out about local oils...

[Zimmo]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Considering doing the @Enki; e85 + oil boiling test... Figure that's about the only way you'd be able to find out about local oils...

HPR5 is rated for E10 only so its possible that I will have the black death? Will see.

[cocoanton]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Considering doing the @Enki; e85 + oil boiling test... Figure that's about the only way you'd be able to find out about local oils...

More on this?, must have missed this...

[cletusb]

Originally Posted by Zimmo HPR5 is rated for E10 only so its possible that I will have the black death? Will see.

Penrite website lists oils by fuel type

E85 lists...

Racing 5 (5w30) for race tho the 5w30 isn't an SN rated oil.
The "every day" oil they recommend is ENVIRO+ GF-5 5W-30

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by cletusb Penrite website lists oils by fuel type E85 lists... Racing 5 (5w30) for race tho the 5w30 isn't an SN rated oil. The "every day" oil they recommend is ENVIRO+ GF-5 5W-30

Ive been wondering this since I run through about 2 tanks a week for the past 4 months straight on 50/50. Pressure still holding good but a more compatible oil would be preferable.

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by cocoanton More on this?, must have missed this...

Happened years ago... This is the main reference I've found in my searches...
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru....php?p=1565150
Boiling e85 by itself = evaporates cleanly
Boiling e85 with t6 added = black gunk

I saw pictures somewhere, but can't for the life of me find them...

[littleloogy]

Please continue oil discussions here. Resolving HPFP corn woes (black death/sticking spill valve)

Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...