E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives

[crutch77]

One full tank of E down, and mostly all is well. Since I have been monitoring FP like a hawk, I can actually pinpoint the exact point when my PRV started to shit the bed Oh well, I wanted a 2150 anyway.

[Dano]

2150 will not work.
2050 maybe.

You will not be able to keep from hitting fuel cut with anything over say 2050

Tappin

[Enki]

Stay stock, or buy my 2075. I'll post a thread if you're interested.

[TiGraySpeed6]

ewwwww, Enki is about to get a vacation! lolz

4sale Nazis comin, er, wait, is that supposed to be cumming?

[Enki]

675 miles with zero hints of any kind of pressure related issue so far.

*knocks on wood*

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 ewwwww, Enki is about to get a vacation! lolz 4sale Nazis comin, er, wait, is that supposed to be cumming?

Nah I'm not actually trying to sell anything outside of the rules. If he has interest, I'll obey the rules and post a thread on it.

[TiGraySpeed6]

pshhhhh
you know I'm just causing trouble.....
no cares eh?

[Enki]

Well if I get banned, then I'll only be updating Facebook for 30 days or whatever the ban is.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Enki Well if I get banned, then I'll only be updating Facebook for 30 days or whatever the ban is.

Better watch your attitude.

I never had problems with my stock PRV, have you figured out how much more volume you get with a 200 psi change and e85's viscosity? Can't be that much...



Sent from my iPhone 6

[Enki]

Couldn't tell you. All I can say is that I'm MUCH happier on the stock one.

[TiGraySpeed6]

IIRC, it's not the relief valve, but the pressure sensor that's the issue and that it reads substantially below the relief valve...

[crutch77]

Thanks fellas. I'm aware of the issues and the fact that the sensor maxes out a little over 2050. I only plan to command 1950 at WOT. I want some room between my commanded pressure and PRV crack pressure.

[Dano]

from my experience, it doesn't matter what you command, within reason, it will bang the FP sensor limit and you will face plant into your steering wheel. This is well documented.

I was commanding around 1600 above 5K (logging 1990s) with my 2150 and around 6K the pump is moving so fast it will still peg the sensor limit. Some guys have had luck tuning the 2050s and maybe a 2075 but I think its a PITA to get all the CDFP tables just right then the weather changes and bang.

but hey I'll line up for a ban with Enki and sell you my 2150 if you are a glutton for punishment.

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Dano from my experience, it doesn't matter what you command, within reason, it will bang the FP sensor limit and you will face plant into your steering wheel. This is well documented. I was commanding around 1600 above 5K (logging 1990s) with my 2150 and around 6K the pump is moving so fast it will still peg the sensor limit. Some guys have had luck tuning the 2050s and maybe a 2075 but I think its a PITA to get all the CDFP tables just right then the weather changes and bang. but hey I'll line up for a ban with Enki and sell you my 2150 if you are a glutton for punishment.

It's already on it's way, so I may have to learn the hard way. I read threads with people describing the experiences you mention, but I also read many accounts where people had no issues. We'll see in a couple days.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Dano from my experience, it doesn't matter what you command, within reason, it will bang the FP sensor limit and you will face plant into your steering wheel. This is well documented. I was commanding around 1600 above 5K (logging 1990s) with my 2150 and around 6K the pump is moving so fast it will still peg the sensor limit. Some guys have had luck tuning the 2050s and maybe a 2075 but I think its a PITA to get all the CDFP tables just right then the weather changes and bang. but hey I'll line up for a ban with Enki and sell you my 2150 if you are a glutton for punishment.

I was commanding 1250 @ 7k and 2.0 load and it would still hit cut.

Currently, on a stock PRV, I'm still peaking > 2k PSI on full corn.

[Dano]

yeah...its a losing battle. IIRC when I 1st installed the 2150 it worked and I commanded in two tiers. Below ~ 5ish K I asked for 1835 and got 1950ish and above 5K I asked for somewhere in the 1600's and got 1950ish.

somewhere along the line..maybe winter or when I had (or thought I had) the ITFP and CDFP issues it started banging the sensor limit and I never got it to work right again after the beforementioned issues were resolved.

LSS (Long Story Short) I am running my 07 OEM RV...lol

the pressure increase, and minimal fueling overhead, is not worth the trouble.

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Enki I was commanding 1250 @ 7k and 2.0 load and it would still hit cut. Currently, on a stock PRV, I'm still peaking > 2k PSI on full corn.

I'm going in with my eyes wide open. Some people had issues, some didn't. I like to experiment.

I have a theory that I unfortunately won't be able to prove one way or the other. In ATR you can set fuel cut limits for boost, but we know that the ECU won't cut fuel immediately when you exceed that threshold (you have to be over for a period of time). I'm guessing it's a similar situation for fuel rail pressure exceeding the sensor limit.

I'm also guessing that not every PTP valve has a consistent flow rate when it cracks (also possible the crack pressures may not be set as accurately as they claim...). These variables, as well as how well a given spill valve regulates rail pressure, could mean the difference between triggering fuel cut or not.

So what I'm basically saying is I'm hoping to get lucky If I wanted nice steady FP with my stock PRV I had to stick with commanding 1669. I'm willing to gamble a bit on the chance for a 16-20% increase in pressure.

[g00s3y]

Well, I ain't no bitch, so decided to go back to full e. Should be a little more fun now that I'll be able to tell how much of it I actually have... Until the sender decides to shit out again...

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by cletusb Where did you hear about them being supplied to a mazdaspeed platform? When I first found them I was looking at what options vw had. I thought it was a given that CPE used APR?

You are correct. I dug deeper and found that this fuel pump internal is new to the market. It finished its beta testing around 2014. Also the bore on the APR/CPE is 9.5mm and IE's pump is 9.8(same as Autotech) so there is absolutely no way this is a CPE. I wonder what that guy was talking about... Hum?

It will be interesting to see how these hold up on corn. Could have great results, or it could cause unforeseen failures. Either way should be fun. They will arrive tomorrow. I will most likely get some used AT's and install them in my spare pump incase I'm left stranded on the road. Now I just have to dig around for some loose change so I can buy a new AP.


Sent from my iPhone 6

[Sandman978]

When you unmarry an AP, does it throw the stock tune back on the ecu? If not, I'll sacrifice mine for you @littleloogy; until you can replace yours..

Fapped over pics of Laguna Seca

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Sandman978 When you unmarry an AP, does it throw the stock tune back on the ecu? If not, I'll sacrifice mine for you @littleloogy; until you can replace yours.. Fapped over pics of Laguna Seca

Yes.

[Sandman978]

Aww... I tried.


Fapped over pics of Laguna Seca

[MSP6]

Originally Posted by Enki I was commanding 1250 @ 7k and 2.0 load and it would still hit cut. Currently, on a stock PRV, I'm still peaking > 2k PSI on full corn.

^This.

You can reduce and taper your fp settings to keep pressure near or below the RV crack point. May keep you from wearing it out prematurely. Not sure if maybe my original speed 6 just had a shitty valve to begin with but it only made it a couple of months before wrecking the rv at 1900-2000psi.

[MSP6]

Originally Posted by Dano yeah...its a losing battle. IIRC when I 1st installed the 2150 it worked and I commanded in two tiers. Below ~ 5ish K I asked for 1835 and got 1950ish and above 5K I asked for somewhere in the 1600's and got 1950ish. somewhere along the line..maybe winter or when I had (or thought I had) the ITFP and CDFP issues it started banging the sensor limit and I never got it to work right again after the beforementioned issues were resolved. LSS (Long Story Short) I am running my 07 OEM RV...lol the pressure increase, and minimal fueling overhead, is not worth the trouble.

^and this.

Originally Posted by crutch77 I'm going in with my eyes wide open. Some people had issues, some didn't. I like to experiment. I have a theory that I unfortunately won't be able to prove one way or the other. In ATR you can set fuel cut limits for boost, but we know that the ECU won't cut fuel immediately when you exceed that threshold (you have to be over for a period of time). I'm guessing it's a similar situation for fuel rail pressure exceeding the sensor limit. I'm also guessing that not every PTP valve has a consistent flow rate when it cracks (also possible the crack pressures may not be set as accurately as they claim...). These variables, as well as how well a given spill valve regulates rail pressure, could mean the difference between triggering fuel cut or not. So what I'm basically saying is I'm hoping to get lucky If I wanted nice steady FP with my stock PRV I had to stick with commanding 1669. I'm willing to gamble a bit on the chance for a 16-20% increase in pressure.

I replaced a bad RV on my speed 6 a few years back with a 2050. Never got it to work. Even with 1200psi commanded tapering to like 900 psi it still ran away to 2000+. John at PTP got upset with me and repeatedly told me it was a tune issue not a hardware issue heh. Replaced it with a stock unit and the problem went away, wierd eh?

With that second stock unit, and my oem RV in my speed 3 now, I've got FP set at 1600psi tapering to 1500psi or so up top to keep pressure below the 1850psi crack point of the valve. I have played with it as well and haven't seen any gains to be had when going from 1600 psi to 2000psi anyway.

Basically, even IF you get it to work by severely decreasing and tapering your fp settings in ATR, which may not even be possible at all, you won't see any benefit from it. Also, what happens if/when your internals begin to fail and now you actually achieve say...900 psi at WOT.....is it a risk you want to take when there isn't any benefit anyway?

Also, it is not at all like boost cut. When I experienced it is was much faster, and it happened in all gears, and it was ghey. And not like the good "MSF ghey". Just actual ghey.

[mrmonk7663]

I have a 1975 rail valve...anything larger than that and it wouldn't work, regardless of the tune. I had a 2050 initially but had to send it back. I even let John try to tune the fuel tables, and he could not get it to work. The 1975 works great...but if its in around 35 degrees I will still get the cut at around 5700rpms. When its warmer it isn't an issue. John sells a 1950 rail valve. This is with Autotech internals though, other brands might play different.

[Enki]

This is the difference between too big a rail valve and stock on my car, roughly the same tune (pay attention to how I handle the 1st and 2nd gear redlines):

2075 PRV:

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

Also notice how I shift a bit early...


Stock PRV:

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

Touch faster out of the hole.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Sandman978 When you unmarry an AP, does it throw the stock tune back on the ecu? If not, I'll sacrifice mine for you @littleloogy; until you can replace yours.. Fapped over pics of Laguna Seca

Thank you sir, but Worry not. I already ordered one. And I had enough crash to pay my taxes, Winning.


Sent from my iPhone 6

[g00s3y]

So a little update, seems the replacement fuel sender is already shitting the bed. Just filled up again, and i'm missing 1 bar... I'm really surprised that it would go after only a couple weeks, being brand new. After this tank I think I'll just throw 93 in there and run that for a couple weeks, see if it does anything, if not, fuck it. I really don't see myself replacing it again, not anytime soon at least.

Had some fun racing this e85 fueled WRX on the way back from the gas station. Went 3 times, were neck and neck each time. Netiher pulling on the other, cool dude.

[littleloogy]

I bet it was nice to have a fuel gauge again. I have not had one for 15,000 miles. The dealer said they would put a new ITFP free of charge. (Warranty)So I'm waiting for the part to come in so I can get that done. I think I've been on petrol long enough where they won't suspect anything.


Sent from my iPhone 6

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by littleloogy I bet it was nice to have a fuel gauge again. I have not had one for 15,000 miles. The dealer said they would put a new ITFP free of charge. (Warranty)So I'm waiting for the part to come in so I can get that done. I think I've been on petrol long enough where they won't suspect anything. Sent from my iPhone 6

Honestly it was very nice, and no other lights on the dash also. Now to just do a lot of random driving because I want to get pump back in there asap and see if that "fixes" it for the time being. If not, once my under-pipe kit from HTP comes and I start taking things off to put that on, I'll pull the sender again and see what it looks like.

Maybe I could just put a night vision camera in the tank, install another 3" screen on the dash, wire it up, and just look at my fuel level through there to know when i'm getting low, lol.

[Sandman978]

For some reason the word speculum comes to mind. Where's Chris Hanson at lmao

Fapped over pics of Laguna Seca

[crutch77]

Dammit, why did you jerks have to be right? I installed the 2150 psi RV and took my car out for a good flogging and a couple 4th gear pulls, all with no issues. I was getting optimistic when the next day I was running through the gears at WOT and there it was: fuel cut. Fuck.

I'll have a stock RV tomorrow and I'll be returning the 2150. Good news is I was able to swap the RV in about 20 minutes (only had to remove my intake).

Other good news more relevant to this thread is I'm on my third tank of E85 with no issues

[Enki]

You want headahce? try bringing the rpm up without being under load. I bet you can't get very far past 5k before it cuts.

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Enki You want headahce? try bringing the rpm up without being under load. I bet you can't get very far past 5k before it cuts.

I'll take your word for it Taking it easy until I get this damn thing off my engine. Pretty fucked up they're still selling these.

[Enki]

He probably had a million of them made for like $50 from somewhere.

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Enki He probably had a million of them made for like $50 from somewhere.

I've got a few suggestions for what he can do with the extras.

More E85 news: loss of traction on dry concrete on back to back fourth gear pulls on Saturday. 50 degrees ambient, 235 40 18 Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports that were well warmed up. I should probably tweak my tune a bit...

[littleloogy]

Yeah, I used to spin in 4th, then I mounted 235's now I spin my clutch.


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[crutch77]

I'm getting a lot more afterfires since switching to full E, maybe a couple a day during shifting. Does that make sense? I have a catless DP.

[everton99]

Originally Posted by crutch77 I'm getting a lot more afterfires since switching to full E, maybe a couple a day during shifting. Does that make sense? I have a catless DP.

I get afterfires fairly often on 93 between shifts. Usually hard acceleration between 2-3. I'm completely catless.


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[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by crutch77 I'm getting a lot more afterfires since switching to full E, maybe a couple a day during shifting. Does that make sense? I have a catless DP.

I wasn't getting any went I was full e i'm catless DP also. Fuel trims look ok?

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by g00s3y I wasn't getting any went I was full e i'm catless DP also. Fuel trims look ok?

Fuel trims look great. Single digits.