E-85 Cure With Fuel Additives

[littleloogy]

I have decided to stop using Si-1 in my fuel tank. It is expensive and I feel that we may just be wasting the product. Therefore, I will be adding 2 ML of additive directly into the HPFP every night when I get home from work. In theory, as the additive sits in the pump it will soften and/or eliminate any sticky buildup that will be developing as the fuel boils in my pump. I also believe that this will help with my sticky internal morning start up.

At any time my internals start to stick when I am driving, I will pull over and add a 2 ML's of additive directly into the pump, like so...

Take some fuel out so it does not over flow.




This will simulate (more/less) how my direct additive injection will work, and how the pump will react to the short high dosage of Si-1.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by littleloogy I like that this plate could be used to monitor the low pressure side during WOT pulls. To see if we are getting a pressure drop from the low side.

I'm also interested in the fact that there's two ports on that plate so in theory you could run a second pump/line to it while also simultaneously feeding a tertiary fuel rail. If we hog out the hpfp and/or mod it to allow double the flow into the pressure cavity through the spill valve (and there actually IS cavitation due to flow starvation) then who knows how much power we could potentially get out of the "stock" fuel system.

Not to mention the potential benefits of having a return style secondary fuel source cooling the pump body off.

[Nitr0EngiE]

with an upgraded ITFP that should not be needed with the FPR crush mod, as far as preventing cavitation

[jtms6]

Epic find guys super stoked to see if we can try another test with a possible baffle mod. seems like an awesome idea.. You said that was off a 2.0t?

[littleloogy]

Yes. Audi AND VW with the 2.0t engine. Pumps are very similar, the internals of the pump are the same. IMO There is a better seal on the retaining nut for the piston on their pumps. Unfortunately the pump has a different bolt pattern which inhibits us from bolting directly to the MZR. They are new on eBay for 200 bucks. If anyone wants to grab one.

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[Enki]

Is the retaining nut similar as far as the threads go?

[littleloogy]

Completely identical to ours.

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Except a better seal. Stock piston size is the same as well.

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[Enki]

HMMMMMM....

It sure would be nice if our flow limit on the HPFP was due to cavitation and resolving that would actually allow 400 WHP on full e85...

Can you compare measurements on the retaining nuts?

[littleloogy]

Yes, tonight. To bad we are talking about modding the fuel pump in an additive thread, we get a little excited... And organization goes to shit

[Enki]

Yes, but it's for science. Make a new one and tag me in it and we can go all Scientists Gone Wild.

[littleloogy]

I don't know about all that. Someone might get the wrong idea start posting nudes while preforming science. Which would be OK with me, depending on how they look.

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[littleloogy]

This is how similar the pumps are...


I fucked up that retaining nut in the hopes that the scraper was pressed in. In case anyone wants to know... It is not.

[Enki]

I could have told you that the scraper is a thin piece of plastic backed by an oring. I had a retaining nut that I was able to remove the scraper from...I don't recommend trying to run it like that though.

[udntknw]

How far off is the bolt pattern on the housings?

just tapa it in.

[littleloogy]

If I remember right the pattern was the same, but one side was a little more spaced out then the other pump. It is unfortunate, I was sad when it would not line up...

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[littleloogy]

So far so good on the additive direct injection testing. I have gotten to know my car pretty well over the past year from being on E mixes. I can now tell early stages of sticky death by sounds, feel of the car, and fuel pressures.

For example. Every morning as I have documented, my fuel pump sticks then breaks loose. Then the first 2-3 miles I can hear my relief valve squeak and my fuel pressure bounce all over until is stabilizes. After I started injecting 2ml of additive directly into my pump (under the button valve) after the last shutdown of the day. The nasty startups in the morning before work have became smooth. No relief valve squeak, no harsh slapping of the pump and a very stable idle fuel pressure +/-10 psi of target.

I was able to drive over 60 miles this evening without having any episodes of the fuel problems like I experienced after leaning out my mixture of additive in my tank. I will continue to run this way as well as document my findings.

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[KayWhy]

I have been subscribed and lurking since the beginning. I just want to express my sincere gratitude toward you guys with all the research and testing that you are putting into this.

[Blown_Dan]

I'm with Kay on this. Thanks to everyone who has contributed for the better of the community. I plan to be running full E soon, and look forward to doing so as more testing is done.

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[Jap11g]

@FSUMazdaSpeed; this is what I was talking about. Pretty interesting stuff.

Tapa Tapa Tapa

[mazdafreak]

Can you use this stuff in your oil instead of gas tank?

[KayWhy]

... You can not be serious.
Aww you changed your statement

I would not recommend that

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by KayWhy ... You can not be serious. Aww you changed your statement I would not recommend that

Lmao. I realized what I said after I pressed post lol. Def wasn't thinking on that one.

[littleloogy]

I just got home from a 200 mile road trip and Pulled in my driveway. I started my timer at the same time I clicked my engine off. I rushed into my garage and grabbed my tools. I pulled my spill valve and waiting for the boiling point. It took 2 minutes 48 seconds for my fuel to start boiling in my pump housing. If you pull your SV before boiling point, pressure is very minimal.

Anyway, the drive went good. I did not have any pressure spikes or loss, the pressure stayed pretty consistent. I hit 400 miles tonight on this new direct injection method. I have yet to see any early signs of sticky death. I have used less then 1 OZ since I started this experiment. I am not going to get my hopes up, death shows up when you least expect it.

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[sidekick]

Ever since I started working at VW, I've been intrigued by how similar the pumps were, but I never thought that plate would bolt right on. Does everything internal still line up with that plate from the 2.0T? I should check and see what my price is on a 2.0T pump, but knowing VW, it'll still be ridiculous even with employee pricing.

[pzr2874]

Boiling?

I have no other words..... I'm dumbfounded

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 Boiling? I have no other words..... I'm dumbfounded

See... Boiling fuel. I try to add the additive before the fuel does this in the pump

Boiling fuel:

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by sidekick Ever since I started working at VW, I've been intrigued by how similar the pumps were, but I never thought that plate would bolt right on. Does everything internal still line up with that plate from the 2.0T? I should check and see what my price is on a 2.0T pump, but knowing VW, it'll still be ridiculous even with employee pricing.

Ebay has the pumps new for close to $180. I keep my eye open for good deals. Sometimes you get lucky and find a low mile pump with a broken spill valve that sells for 50 shipped.

I also check craigslist for cars that have a 2.0t engine that are being parted out part out.




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[Spectrix]

Originally Posted by littleloogy Well here are some more pictures of the baffle cover in case you want to see more.

The VW baffle cap on the right is very interesting as it opens up a possibility for passive cooling; fuel heats and passes out of the the HPFP, drawing cool fuel in (the same principle as hot air rising).

Do you know the purpose of the baffle cap inlet/outlet for that motor?

[Spectrix]

Originally Posted by sidekick Ever since I started working at VW, I've been intrigued by how similar the pumps were, but I never thought that plate would bolt right on. Does everything internal still line up with that plate from the 2.0T? I should check and see what my price is on a 2.0T pump, but knowing VW, it'll still be ridiculous even with employee pricing.

Perhaps you could check if VW list a part No. / price just for the baffle cap?


Edit - should probably continue this discussion in @littleloogy;s HPFP hardware thread

[littleloogy]

Fuel in the pump is actually cold right after shutdown. I can put my finger in it and get a chill. Temperature increased drastically once fuel stopped moving. Literally, one second its cold the next its seems to almost burn my finger. I think if we setup a return line for after shutdown, we can prevent the sticky from forming in the first place by keeping temps below boiling point.

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[pzr2874]

Originally Posted by littleloogy See... Boiling fuel. I try to add the additive before the fuel does this in the pump Boiling fuel: Boiling fuel - YouTube

Have you put a thermometer to it yet? I'm curious. If you say it's cold in a matter of seconds..... where is the boiling fuel going? (meaning, fresh fuel is being pushed in while the old/hot fuel is exiting). There is no return on our car (so I thought)

[Enki]

It's just boiling off.

[SpeedEngineer]

There isn't a return hence I would assume the sticky problem

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[Enki]

Originally Posted by Enki It's just boiling off.

I should reiterate that this comment pertained to what happens when the spill valve is off the pump. With it on, pressure would increase until the regulator in the fuel tank cracks open, allowing a cycle of boil-off to pressure drop to heat soak to boil, etc. Eventually the only thing left in the spill valve area would be hot gas/ethanol fumes and oil residue which doesn't evaporate (thus, sticky).

[mazdafreak]

I'd rather run the additive than putting it in right after shut down. Seems like too much work.


And I don't daily my car it shouldn't be too expensive running the additive. Guess we'll see. Car will be up and running in a week or two.

[SpeedEngineer]

I think he is seeing if it in fact works then he might or someone might devise a direct injection device that would keep the need from injecting it manually. That shouldn't be too hard. Like he said earlier. A button you press right after shut down

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[mazdafreak]

Ahh yes yes....My bad. for time being ill just run additive in the tank!

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Ahh yes yes....My bad. for time being ill just run additive in the tank!

Its not that bad actually. It takes me 4 minutes to complete the direct injection process. I do not do it after every shutdown. I do it at the last shutdown of the day, Right before I go sleepy time.

I have started creating a parts list and doing a bit of studying for the best parts for this kit. The hardest part will be finding VW/Audi covers, as I don't believe the covers are sold separately.

[mazdafreak]

Ohh I kno it's easy to do, taken my Cpe pump apart 50+ times when I ran 100% E. Now I'm trying to get my car put together to run full E again tho.

[littleloogy]

Here is what my pump looked like after about 500 miles of just adding 2 ML of additive under the button valve every night.


Internals had a slight sticky feel. But was able to wipe off without the need for a cleaning agent. They came right apart. No black death on piston or retainer the black you see was soft, it was not sticky

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