e85 is the same as premium here currently. At one point it was $.50 more per gallon than premium. I run a 50/50 e85/87 octane mix though, so I suck it up. @rfinkle2 I don't question your logic one bit. I bet that is the case where 10% ethanol is not mandated.

$3.09 here...

And the gas blenders will do whatever is legal that maximizes their profits (as they logically should).

Corn prices are starting to shoot the moon due to the drought; some ethanol makers are probably going to start fail if they aren't hedged...

I have an E85 tester for checking the Erhanol content.

They make kits to test lower concentrations as well:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/

Buy a kit that can test down to the E10-E0 range and see Finkle.


Tapadatass

Oh how cool. I only wish that I had known about that in the past so I could have tested before and now.

I'm going to have to pick one of those up.

Thanks for the link.

I love gadgets.

Maybe a bit late but I too noticed that starting this summer I started getting KR running the same map I was running last summer without issue, and had to back off 2* of timing and richen fuel to get rid of it. I thought maybe it was bad gas but it persisted multiple tanks. Couple guys suggested not to use Shell anymore so I tried BP and got the same results. It got me wondering if it was a mechanical issue with my car like carbon buildup, but I run deep creep (seafoam aerosol) through the intake prior to every oil change, and when I removed the plugs and looked into the cylinder with a flashlight, what I could see didn't look too bad. Which left me thinking that lower fuel 'quality' could be the culprit... I never thought of the E% though... the pumps at Shell all say "contains 10% ethanol", not "up to" 10%, just "contains 10%".

Could be valve seals too.

Running seafoam certainly cannot hurt, but has almost no effect on cleaning the valves (as was thought in the past).

The residue on our valves needs to be manually removed.

You may have developed a slight boost leak or your plugs may need to be re-gapped. These are two things you should check before adjusting your tune further.

yep, I did all the usual trouble shooting. Removed TMIC, regapped plugs, checked and tightened all hose clamps (none were loose). Switched to one step colder plugs. LTFT's have not changed, boost is fine and WGDC is consistent with logs taken last year in the same weather. AFR's were spot on target. There was really no indication of a leak.

At any rate, going back to the OTC timing and fuel values cured the KR. Now I'm on 25% ethanol and have moved timing back up to where it was and leaned fuel back to where it was and no KR.

Should probably make a dedicated thread on it.

yep, already had. only replied here because I saw a post describing the same kind of thing happening to several other people, getting KR at more conservative timing where before mire agressive timing had no problems. I already took care of my KR thanks to the tips given in my thread...

Since when did you become a fucking vendor? Wtf do you sell? Cockmeatsanwiches?

yeah...WTF everyone is a vendor now...even @Bucker right?

@Haltech is letting anyone with monies be a vendor it seems...maybe WWpearl is right.
























KIDDING!

edit: WTF @Boost_creep

Lol...

@Boost_creep is with me :)

haha

there goes the neighborhood.

:theyareontome:

Damn, finally finished this thing...
Epic thread, was great to watch the progression

Damn thats a lot of reading...

PUNISHER??? IS THAT YOU??? LOL

Has any one look in to the fuel pump for the 2012 ford focus flex fuel DI. It look like the little bro of are 2.3


Green Car Congress: Ford Applying 2.0L Flex-Fuel Capable Direct Injection Ti-VCT Engine in 2012 Focus

Can any one recherche the pump?

Went to ford today and the focus flex fuel pump is 2 bolts across, the Mazda and Vw are 3 bolts.

Still looking if the base can be change!!!

I being running 4gl 93 to 5.5gl e85 for 2 month now with no problem. I'm getting 24 to 27 mpg with cobb spice tune +5 lambda and 26 to 29mpg with 93 tune +10 Lambda. Base line Mpg 31.9 on 93. I was planing to run for 3 month but went for a ride with my wife yesterday and 280 miles later need to put gas and there were no e85 close to were I was at, so i fill up with 93.:sorry: I will give it and other 3 month and i will take apart my full pump and post some pics.

mods: bsd, cork sport cai, vtcs delete, egr delete, cats delete, pcv disconnected from intake manifold and Y of the turbo intake side with catch can.

I don't think its necessary for you to take apart your pump at that concentraion. I've been on 50/50 for 7k now and it still holds FP since the day I started.

Finally finished reading the ENTIRE thread. Post by post!

First of all I want to give BIG thanks to @phate; for starting all this. And for everybody else who is participating in this endeavor!!!

After my 93 octane tune is done and I dyno the car (December 15th) I will start running E85. I have two E85 gas station not far from my house, so 100% E85 is very possible.

----------------------

I am not sure if any summary was made base on this (and other) E85 threads. If not, I am willing to help you guys out. It will be nice to have one document (similar to Abilor's guide) explaining E85 from start to "finish". I can help with putting this together. The info though will be coming from the gurus on here :)

----------------------

No to log ago I have been given the link to this thread:

E85 Specific Fuel Pumps are ready for sale.

HPFP UPGRADE claims they have E85 computable FP. Since there was no reply regarding testing 100% E85 I have emailed them about it.

Here is what I got so far:

I have emailed them back requesting solid testing data from their test cars. I have followed up few time, but got no solid response, yet.

Did anybody tried to running their HPFP with 100% E85?

people run into issues running 100%. If you have balls of steel go for it. Otherwise run 50/50 mix. You can run a 3 gallon mix like everyone else does and still see significant gains without any harmful side effects like the black death.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=127238

Response isn't a happy one :p

I think it's about time we make our own FAQ, I've been considering doing this for quite some time. The FAQ from nasioc, stickied in this section, is inaccurate or outdated for some of the information. None of it pertains to DI or our cars specifically, and we have a number of issues specific to us.

If I have some time, I'll start putting together information and references to outside information and relevant discussions on this site. We have covered a hell of a lot about E85 in the past two years, so it will take some time. Please feel free to mention anything specific you would like covered and I'll make sure it's in there.

You guys keep up the good work, I'm following in your footsteps for my Ecoboost V6 Flex. I'm working out the way to at least run 50/50 but would prefer to run full E85 or E98 soon.

E98? Sounds interesting.

If you want you can send me raw stuff and I will try to get in organized. We can have one online doc shared and build on it. That was when it is done we can have a PDF ready to go.

We can add @Enki;'s oil research and other useful info into it as well.

This would be awesome; I'd do it, but seeing as how I'll be...pursuing other projects here shortly, it really isn't feasible at the moment.

You could easily spend a few days sorting through threads to come up with understanding E use on this car. An official document would be extremely helpful.

Here we go...our thread is making its rounds... Still some ignorant fuckheads out there to boot:

E-85 users thread - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3479030

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3479012

I finished a project last night, so I'll begin work on this.

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Just thought I would throw this out there, not sure I can even get it around here but is anyone running E20? Seems like the easy solution to get some of the benifits with no losses in reliability.

Yep, that's about the minimum you need to remove knock limitations.

To bad there usually isnt to much information on where to get it as most try to avoid it....

I dont really want to tune for an E85 mix as my wife will likely take this car every so often after our daughter is born. Kinda wish they sold an E30 or E50 out of the pump, lol.

It's very rare, but some places do sell E50. I have seen E50 pumps in Bloomington, IL for example.


Tapadatass

Why doesn't anyone have a good database on this? A lot of the E85 websites ONLY list E85 and alternative fuels.... I really wish they would/could include all ethonal fuel blend products. :banghead:

Might be time to get something together in the regional NATOR sections such as some have already started to do.

Gonna leave it to the MSF folk to do all the heavy lifting...

I understand that.... Thinking about starting a list myself if i ever get a chance!

Try googling "ethanol blender pumps" and one of the first links has a map interface to gas stations where you can choose your own concentration of ethanol. They're all in the corn belt.

Awesome, aparently the e85 pump near me is a blend station? Didn't even know those existed!

Saw an E30 pump driving through south western Minnesota in the summer. It was a Cenex in a small town in the middle of nowhere with corn fields all around. E85 was also cheap.

Attachment 83313

My only concern with the E30 out of the pump is that it's probably 70% rat piss gasoline. Probably not on par with an equivalent E85/87oct mix, let alone E85/93. Certainly handy though, I am just cautioning against running a map designed for a manual mix with the pump mix with not re examining timing.

Zigatapatalka

Word


Tappin

I agree however, I remember reading that many gas stations that offer different E options have pretty advanced pumping systems... they actually mix the fuel from two sources before entering your vehicle.

Update from John (HPFPupgrade.com).

I have asked John what is the point in selling E85 HPFP for 50/50 mix when there are may people here running 50/50 mix without or with very minimal issues. Here is what he said:

I don't know if that was discussed on MSF already, but it is quite interesting. Did anybody compare long term FP logs to see the trend of gradually loosing FP?

Also, John said they are working on a full E85 HPFP:

sounds like john.

magical mystery fancy shit, send me your money.
when it fails, it's installer error.

Hahah... here is his last comment that I didn't post above

Strange, this, considering my Autotechs have never seen but a tank or two of straight pump gas and look brand fucking new when clean.

yeah, and my old ass KMD's are still kicking ass
year on 93
year on e blend

pre-dating the great fail of '11

Best part is when I rebuild my pump, I use a little bit of oil for the o-rings but put the rest of it, including the internals back in dry.

That's right, bite the spill valve, Autotechs are going in dry.

I have been running E85 blends for about 1.5 years with no issues with pressure dropping...

I have also been running a blend of e85 anywhere from 2-6 gallons for over 2 yrs, on ptp internal no-less, with no issue

PTP internals and have been running Eth for over a year and no issues here.

I have had my kmd's in for about 2 years now. Much of that time has been on a 50/50 mix. When I pulled my fuel pump the other day (damn 100% e85 and retard, not a good combo) to inspect it/clean it, after that, it literally looked brand new still. There was not one wear mark or scratch on the thing! I was actually a little suprised.

i think he was just talking about how the regular gasoline that they are using in the mix is just super poor quality.

Many gas stations simply stopped providing diesel.

Think about that for a minute.

Alright I thought about it for over a month and desperately was hoping someone would respond and spell it out for me, but what are you talking about? Where did that come from?

Instead of putting a new tank in underground to store Ethanol, gas stations used the existing tank they had used previously for diesel.

As fucking frightening as it is, this. ^^^^

haha

luckily my E85 station still sells Diesel and there was a brand new huge hole dug in the ground for another tank installation for the 2 E pumps. :)

Shell FTW

Ok so do you think that there would be any real threat of having roughly .001% (based on fictious scientific research I conducted for this post) diesel fuel mixed into the Ethonol? Or what are you guys worried about?
I'm just trying to wrap my noob brain around as much of this as I can.
Thanks for spelling it out though. :22:

Holy crap, I remember this threading only having like 7 pages.. got some reading to do.. but here's a couple pics of my spill valve after ~16 months e85 (mostly 50/50, but a few times a bit more, since my fuel level sensor died long ago)..

EDIT: I ran royal purple 5w30 for the first ~15k miles, and swapped to penzoil platinum till now (~33k miles).

Bumping this thread for an interesting finding from the CS blog. CP-E sleeves have an extra notch machined in them to supposedly help with black death. Anyone running corn on a CP-E pump?

http://www.corksport.com/blog/fuel-p...arison-part-2/

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cp-e pump running 30% corn here. things are fine and dandy so far.

mazdafreak has the cpe pump and had issues similar to the other pumps :(

+1 CP-E pump with 20-25% Maize for almost 2 years without a hiccup. :)

I think it all depends on the blend. I really don't see the risk or reduction in IDC of running more than 25% being worth the gains IMHO.

It seems as though it also would depend on the oil used.

been using penzoil platinum 5w 30 despite all the haters. Tracking this bitch and bringing the coolant temps to 220+ on a regular basis, again, no issues so far (knock on wood)

Unless you are running >50% E85, I wouldn't expect problems

I run a cpe pump with e50 (8 gal e85, which usually measures around e70 to 4 gal pump). I use rotella t6, but haven't had any black death issues thus far.

How long? Lol I asked what pump at first and feel dumb cause I over looked it.


Sent from my iBro 5 using tapatalk, Bro!

He said in his post a cp-e pump....

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Yeah I know I'm an idiot!


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Hello everyone! First post ever! I've been reading this thread for a while (page 1-20 where he finally got to the dyno and made retarded high torque) and I have a crazy question to ask..
(im not trolling just throwing an idea out and by you guys talking about it, we might learn maybe)

Could you train the stock ecu, over the course of like 10 fillups to adapt to e-85? Like adding 10% e85 one fill up then 20% the next and so on until you were in a higher concentration? Has this been done? Is this just crazy witchcraft? What would be your reasoning for saying "hell no you cant do that crazy"?

Thank you in advance, and sorry if this is just 100% illogical.

Max trimming is 20% for both long and short term. You'll wind up throwing a code, and during WOT pulls there's NO trimming.

On full E, you'd be running VERY lean.

If you try to short change the mod path, you're going to blow your motor, guaranteed.

Thanks for the info about the max trim levels! I plan on following Phate somewhat with his build, but the black tar of hell has me scared to touche-85. I should probably throw this out there (and update my sig eventually) I have a 2013 MS3 with literally 300 miles on it. My upgrade path will be probably the most skiddish ever as the car is nearly brand new. I dont plan on doing anything until 5000 miles so it is completly broke in, in every way. My upgrade path so far, from the gross amount of reading will be like this

1. HPFP and Cobb AP
2. Downpipe
3. Intake
and thats probably it for a good while. I might get my buddy to custom weld me an exhaust but beyond those first 3 steps that will probably be it. I will admit that I havnt read all 60 pages of this thread (my wife is like wtf you just stare at the comp all day) but did we ever get a 100% answer on the black tar of death?

Let's not derail the thread with future mod list :) Please make a new thread in welcome section. FYI do EGR delete one of the first things, if you can.

Your engine is broken in within the first 40-60 miles.

EGR delete is not needed. Rather an OCC should be a mandatory. I'll stop right there to keep the derailment to a minimum.

Either way, make yourself a new member thread brownie.


[/Derailment]

1 Year Bump,

Ap on the way and they sell E85 at my new Pots. Got some reading to do first.

I'm going from almost no bolt ons to full bolt ons here shortly. Just waiting on the FMIC from Corksport to finish up my list of parts to install. I'm taking the 2012 MS3 to COBB SoCal for a tune in mid March, here in about two weeks. I am having them tune me for 91 and a 30%/70% (E85/91) mixture. I'm using CS internals for now unless I see any issues. I will make copies of my dyno sheets and post them within a couple days after the tune as well as data logs from my Stage 1 setup, data logs for 91 at Stage 3, and the 30/70 mixture. Stay tuned.


Edit: JK about Cobb. I heard the tunes that are done are child's play in terms of power. Swapped over to Purple Drank tuning. Been in contact with a couple of their guys and they have already had me running logs to make sure everything was good. A lot of knowledge there. I just have to install this tbe and fmic and a couple other things and all will be well. I'll keep you all posted.

Edit: Install starts in two days. :D :D :D.

Going from this:

CS SRI+TIH
CS shiftplate/weight
Cobb AP v2
OTS tune CS SRI+TIH 91 V210

To this:
CS SRI+TIH
CS shiftplate/weight
Cobb AP v3
CS TBE
CS FMIC
CS HPFP internals
CS RMM
CS EBCS
PD Tune for 91 and E85/91 (30/70 mix) for now.