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Mazdaspeed Forums (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/)
-   MazdaSpeed 3/6 - E85 Fueling (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f567/)
-   -   E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f567/e85-discussion-hpfp-lubrication-flow-issues-79030/)

phate 03-30-2012 07:48 PM
Another 2nd gen with fuel level sensor issues! Solution: Buy a first gen.

The stuttering and whatnot is probably from the spill valve getting gunked up. I'd pull it first thing!

VitViper 03-30-2012 07:56 PM
That's odd... I've been on 50/50 with my GenPu with no issues so far. It's also unusual for 100% E85 to corrode anything in the tank in a week... Even on my 8th gen which is notorious for the fuel level sender to corrode with high ethanol content it doesn't happen for a couple months (before the fuel level gauge never lights up).

Enki 03-30-2012 08:11 PM
Sticky on the level sender.

silvapain 03-30-2012 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper (Post 1336383)
That's odd... I've been on 50/50 with my GenPu with no issues so far. It's also unusual for 100% E85 to corrode anything in the tank in a week... Even on my 8th gen which is notorious for the fuel level sender to corrode with high ethanol content it doesn't happen for a couple months (before the fuel level gauge never lights up).
My money is on the fuel level potentiometer shorting out due to the hygroscopic nature of Ethanol.


Tapadatass

VitViper 03-30-2012 09:24 PM
If that's the case, just coat it with epoxy.

wolly6973 03-30-2012 09:29 PM
The sputtering stopped as soon as I added gas and FP has been fine. Doesn't a stuck spill valve show up as low FP?

I only added about a half gallon from the can since the station is basically across the street.

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Dano 03-30-2012 09:40 PM
a few of the genpu guys have reported issues with the fuel level gauge and 100% E. sounds the same. IDK what the resolution is.

edit: @phate beat me to it ...get a genwan :)

Enki 03-30-2012 09:52 PM
If the car was warm when you added gas, no dice.

@ 140 degrees ECT, e85 runs smooth.

wolly6973 03-31-2012 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki (Post 1336544)
If the car was warm when you added gas, no dice.

@ 140 degrees ECT, e85 runs smooth.
Car had been on for 10 seconds and it was about 40 degrees out. My garage is not insulated or heated either.

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phate 03-31-2012 06:45 AM
If it was that early on in the switch when it was stuttering, it may simply be because there was still your old mix in the lines, and you had already flashed to the E85 map. How's the car running now?

wolly6973 03-31-2012 09:08 AM
Here is the timeline for everyone...

Monday evening - fill up with 100% e85, drive 1/2 block home
Tuesday morning - drive to work (10 mins)
Tuesday afternoon - flash map before driving home
Wed & Thursday - drive to and from work, no probs
Friday morning - car is whack

I have only driven to and from work since topping back off, and it has been fine.

I did notice that Friday am when it was stuttering that FP was dropping to 90 psi before I added gas.

mrmonk7663 03-31-2012 09:09 AM
spill valve.

wolly6973 03-31-2012 11:26 AM
Just went out for a spin after putting on the pmm. Fuel gauge shows empty, but everything else was good.

event 03-31-2012 12:45 PM
You filling up at the Thorton's on Ogden between Eola and 75th?

wolly6973 03-31-2012 01:56 PM
yup

adlpb 04-02-2012 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolly6973 (Post 1336366)
I just switched to 100% E85 this week, after being on a 30% blend for the last year or so. Some wierd shit went down this morning though.

I started the car to go to work and it was stuttering and wanting to die. The fuel gauge showed no bars and the fuel light was on. I am 99.999% positive I had almost a half tank when I parked it in my garage last night.

So I jump out and dump some regular gas in from the can sitting there for the mower. Everything smooths out immediately and I head out to the gas station. FP is normal on the way there. When I get to 5 gallons the pump clicks off. I figured no biggie, it happens, and I restarted. Clicked off again. Started again slowly and I could hear it coming up the fill tube as it does when it is almost full and it clicked off. 5.5 gallons got in the tank.

Get back in the car and the gauge now shows 1/2 full. FP is just fine and I have no idea what is going on. I had flashed a new map the day before, so I re-flashed back to the previous map just to rule out a variable, since that is the only thing that has been changed/touched recently.

WTF!?!
Welcome to the "fucked fuel level sensor" club

That makes 3 of us :bukkake:

I suggest you reset your trip meter every time you fill up. Fill up your tank all the way. Repeat after 180-200 miles. Do not go more than 200 miles (ask me how I know)...well this is with 100% city driving. You might get away with a few more miles if you drive highway, but I wouldn't risk it.

I am going to eventually fill up with 93 and take it to the dealer, but I know that the issue is probably going to come back if using E85

wolly6973 04-03-2012 05:08 AM
Do u trigger a CEL about the fuel level sensor as well?

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adlpb 04-03-2012 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolly6973 (Post 1340935)
Do u trigger a CEL about the fuel level sensor as well?

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Yes sir. Two actually:

P0460 Fuel Level Sensor Circuit
P0463 Fuel Level Sensor Circuit High Output

E85 - fucking your fuel level sensor, one genpu at a time.

VitViper 04-03-2012 01:50 PM
Pull the fuel pump hanger out of the tank and look at what's corroded... You can coat that in E85 proof epoxy and call it a day.

adlpb 04-03-2012 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper (Post 1341688)
Pull the fuel pump hanger out of the tank and look at what's corroded... You can coat that in E85 proof epoxy and call it a day.
It's most likely not corrosion. Ethanol is naturally more conductive than gasoline. This will tend to short out the circuit.

VitViper 04-03-2012 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adlpb (Post 1341786)
It's most likely not corrosion. Ethanol is naturally more conductive than gasoline. This will tend to short out the circuit.
My point is pull the hanger out and look! Coating the circuit that is shorting in E85 proof epoxy will protect that circuit as it will have no contact with the E. If this had happened on my GenPu I'd rip the hanger out and take a look. We've already tested the epoxy trick on our shitty non-ethanol friendly level sender/circuit in the 8th gen's, so it does work.

adlpb 04-03-2012 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper (Post 1341806)
My point is pull the hanger out and look! Coating the circuit that is shorting in E85 proof epoxy will protect that circuit as it will have no contact with the E. If this had happened on my GenPu I'd rip the hanger out and take a look. We've already tested the epoxy trick on our shitty non-ethanol friendly level sender/circuit in the 8th gen's, so it does work.
I see this as a good preventative measure for a sensor which is in good working order.

I am not sure if this would help mine since it sends no signal whatsoever. I'm no electrical expert, but I would assume that a sensor which has shorted out would need to be replaced.

VitViper 04-03-2012 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adlpb (Post 1341820)
I see this as a good preventative measure for a sensor which is in good working order.

I am not sure if this would help mine since it sends no signal whatsoever. I'm no electrical expert, but I would assume that a sensor which has shorted out would need to be replaced.
I was looking at the mazda parts catalog and the fuel level sender is like $43 or so. I doubt you'll be able to replace just the circuit, generally they sell the whole level sender assembly as one piece (it has the circuit on it). Lucky yours is so cheap, it's $100 for my 8th gen... lol.

You should pull it and take pics... it's extremely valuable research.

adlpb 04-03-2012 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper (Post 1341824)
I was looking at the mazda parts catalog and the fuel level sender is like $43 or so. I doubt you'll be able to replace just the circuit, generally they sell the whole level sender assembly as one piece (it has the circuit on it). Lucky yours is so cheap, it's $100 for my 8th gen... lol.

You should pull it and take pics... it's extremely valuable research.
Yes, you are correct on the price. I definitely plan on taking a look at the sensor before taking it in to the dealer (if I even will do that). Wouldn't be a bad idea to buy an extra one and cover it with epoxy/goop (both meth resistant).

wolly6973 04-03-2012 07:38 PM
If only it was so easy to pull the tank. It is a pita and requires a special tool from Mazda iirc.

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VitViper 04-03-2012 07:54 PM
Do you really have to drop the tank to get to the pump? All the cars I've owned have had access to the pump from the back seat/trunk area. Yes, still a PITA, but nothing that special. No special tools required either... just a hammer and screw driver to get the ring off.

josurr 04-03-2012 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper (Post 1342354)
Do you really have to drop the tank to get to the pump? All the cars I've owned have had access to the pump from the back seat/trunk area. Yes, still a PITA, but nothing that special. No special tools required either... just a hammer and screw driver to get the ring off.
lol, go take the back seat out of your speed, take off the access cover, and then see why you need to drop the tank...

VitViper 04-03-2012 08:06 PM
Is there no big round hole back there? lol

josurr 04-03-2012 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitViper (Post 1342388)
Is there no big round hole back there? lol
its about half the size it should be to allow for in-tank fuel pump access without dropping the tank... just ask @phate

adlpb 04-03-2012 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by josurr (Post 1342408)
its about half the size it should be to allow for in-tank fuel pump access without dropping the tank... just ask @phate
True, but I thought this had changed for genpus. I've read around here that the diameter of access was larger than genjuans.

Nataphen 04-04-2012 09:39 AM
Nope, it isn't. I've checked the wife's 2010 myself.

mrQQ 04-12-2012 08:38 AM
does anyone have any clue where around MBT is for these engines?

Dizzy Turbo 04-12-2012 08:42 AM
I wouldn't push past twenty. But that would vary between cars so your not gonna get the definitive answer that your looking for. Especially if you ask in the wrong dam section

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RichieRichness 04-12-2012 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrQQ (Post 1356693)
does anyone have any clue where around MBT is for these engines?
I try not to go past 1700* F EGT but as far as timing, each car is different.

phate 04-12-2012 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrQQ (Post 1356693)
does anyone have any clue where around MBT is for these engines?
Pretty sure we already went over this. Fuel has a pretty significant effect on where MBT lies for these engines. Search, we have dyno proven results.

sleepyspeed6 04-15-2012 03:14 PM
Alright so went to the dyno yesterday, this is my car with 19° timing 4.5gal of e85


http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/p...4-14181319.jpg

Nataphen 04-15-2012 04:17 PM
This probably won't help, but I was looking at Lucas ethanol additive in the store today. Would that help at all with black death, or is it more for lubrication and moisture protection?

Enki 04-15-2012 05:56 PM
Probably not, sadly. I think the best bet is just simply keeping the oil out of the pump in the first place.

zspalm1 05-04-2012 06:15 PM
i have had a problem just once with my stock fuel pump deciding it didnt want to supply fuel like you the car just didnt want to accel even while i was to the metal the problem was so speratic too i was driving parked for maybe 20 min came back tried to drive away and the car barely moved parked again came back like hour and a half later was fine i figured my car has 115k miles on it and i did through some seafoam in there so eh idk but i have been reading up on this E85 so im going to give it a shot this weekend i dont have any fuel mods just the intake test pide and mounts

silvapain 05-04-2012 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zspalm1 (Post 1398616)
i have had a problem just once with my stock fuel pump deciding it didnt want to supply fuel like you the car just didnt want to accel even while i was to the metal the problem was so speratic too i was driving parked for maybe 20 min came back tried to drive away and the car barely moved parked again came back like hour and a half later was fine i figured my car has 115k miles on it and i did through some seafoam in there so eh idk but i have been reading up on this E85 so im going to give it a shot this weekend i dont have any fuel mods just the intake test pide and mounts
FYI: Nobody's going to bother reading this shit. Use capitalization, punctuation, and proper spelling.


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