goddamnit. they just called and canceled

subb

Ur such a bad liar

tapa dat ass

No, it's true. Shawn from A-Spec Tuning called me yesterday on my way up to Wheaton, like 20 minutes after I left my place. Said he could get me in this afternoon around 1. He called me back this morning around 11 and said someone in his shop fucked something up so he had to cancel my session. I can't be too upset, though. He said they aren't usually open on Saturday's, but since I was tuning the car myself, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

It's just really damn disappointing, I though I was set for today after I couldn't get in anywhere else. Hopefully, Snowdance gets their dyno fixed, and maybe I can get some time next Friday or Saturday.

shooooooot get that thang going

So it seems this dyno soap opera is coming to an end next weekend. I went to A-Spec Tuning Saturday around 3:30 because Shawn called me back. Said the group using the dyno would be off of it soon and he'd stay as late as I needed. The group using the dyno (Hyundai Genesis people) had flown in a tuner from S. Korea.

While they were using the dyno, I bs'd with Shawn (the shop owner) for quite a while. Very cool guy and very cool shop (they primarily build RX-7's). He does some pretty impressive fab work and one of his shop cars is a Speed3. He was around when everyone was blowing their engines during the load cap days, so not much was done with the car and it's been sitting.

Anyway, the Hyundai group ended up going way later than they scheduled, but I wasn't about to bitch since they flew in this guy from halfway around the world...god knows how much that cost them. I will be on this dyno next Sunday morning at 9am. Let's hope all goes well.

@wolly6973 - you going to be around??

ill be around u jerk tune me up!

I am out of town on the weekends right now.

Where's the shop at Clint? I'm free next weekend.


---
- Tapadatass

Schaumburg:

533 lunt dr, schaumburg, il - Google Maps

Went out cruising around for a bit last night. 3rd gear is just silly.


This is the richer tune which I feel doesn't pull as hard up top. You can tell in the video it doesn't...


Edit: I wanted some video of before and after the tune.

What timing are you running at each 500 RPM breakpoint?

3000-6500 rpm in 500 rpm increments:

I haven't wanted to push it farther without being on a dyno. I'm guessing it will take even more timing to reach MBT.

Very interesting.

I am currently:

Im running practically the same as you are cld......

Ill load up a couple logs from today.

I failed and deleted my logs...I'll get some vids and logs in the morn on the way to work :)

:dance::dance::dance:

I just got a txt from a buddy that said they are pumping corn in the city about 5 minutes away from me!!!

I'll be checking this out tonight!

holla!

http://mail.netsecurenow.com/img/fun/e85.jpg

Nice dano. I think 50% is a great mixture. I can run mad aggressive timing in 100 degree temps and ac on and still get no knock at 23psi. LOL Car actually pulls real good in the heat still. Your gonna love it in your car. I bet you pick up a few hundred rpm of spool time and tone of top end. When you gonna do that? I can give you a rough Idea of how much to scale your maf if you need.

Very interested to your your results on the dyno Phate. My new intake shoudl be here in the next few days so Ill be going back to the dyno next week sometime. Last attempt didnt pan out cause the dyno broke there also. On my first pass at 22psi the dyno gave out right at 5200 and I couldnt make another pass. It was just free spinning it was weird. The car was at 390whp, climbing big time and the torque was very linear. So Im hoping for good stuff at 24psi.

Get some dawg...

Bout time you show back up to the thread son.

Oh i been hear laying in the cut. LOL

I will be adding 3-4 gallons today if my tank of 93 gets low enough...LOL

I'm excited to see how this works out with E85 and WMI...guess I won't need that big DO10 nozzle I just installed anymore. LOL May end up spraying more H2O than meth now so much smaller nozzle needed. I have DO3 thru DO10 so I can certainly play around with the nozzle sizes.

But on the other hand, depending on how much 85 I run I may need alternate fueling on my GT28 so the 10 nozzle and 100% meth may need to stay in play. IDK

So @driver311 are you not running out of IPW on your 3071? and how much meth are you spraying?

I think for DD I would go conservative on the E85, just enough to reach MBT so maybe not even 50% corn.

Seems 2-4 gallons per tank is enough to remove any knock so why go more than that?

If your on meth just go 50/50. That way you can gain the power that comes from just running e85 and then the added power from running like 16-17 degrees of max timing. Im not on a 3071 anymore and on 50% e85 and no meth I max out my injectors right at 24psi. So thats were Ill stay. Runs plenty fast for me anyhow, and anymore and Im just asking for trouble. But I get 0 knock, I mean 0.

Dont bother running just a few gallons. It works and no need for you to go through all what others have. Just go 6.5 gallons to a tank and scale your maf up by a multiple of 1.20 and that should get you very very close. I believe Im at 1.22 not and its spot on. But I run exactly 50% not just a certain amount per tank. on my fill ups I just go 6 gallons of e85 and 6 gallons of 93. That way the mixture doesnt slowly dilute cause you have left overs in the tank. Does that make sense?

great info Anthony!

I just put 2.5 gallons in and while filling up an STI rolled through the station and pulled up to a 93 pump. Looked over at me like "WTF do you think you're doing over there". I just smiled and nodded my head at them. :yup:

I'll monitor/tune this mix and see what happens then slowly add more. I think my LTFT has already gone up. I'll lower my breakpoints so trimming will stop at 150-170 and see what PT AF shift looks like if any. IIRC my C+ breakpoints are still 200.

I need to go back and re-read this thread now that I have the perspective of someone running corn.

BTW anyone switched to say 91 from 93 or even dare I say it, 87 and just up the ratio of E? E is 2.96 here.

good times :)

So, since changing out my ITFP, I'm seeing less black death in my HPFP. It is not gone, because the solenoid started sticking again last night. Pulled it and the inside of the pump looks pretty damn clean. Could just be a coincidence, though.

LOL "black death" AKA "The Plague" for the DISI CDFP

Phate, I popped out my pump and internals today and they seem to look just fine. No real reason other than to check, but I am at ~ 1500 on the 50/50 E85 now.

I wonder if Blackstone is on to something saying it 'looks like oil'. The only place we could get oil into the fuel system is the seal on the pump shaft, which goes into the engine on the cam follower...I have another pump housing boxed up somewhere, so swapping the piece which holds the internals wouldn't be a big deal.

Do you really think it will fling oil up in there? The only way I can see it getting inside the pump is if it is stuck to the walls and exposed as the piston retreats towards the cam lobes.

There is a way to test this out though; take a drop of oil from your dipstick with a qtip or something and submerse that in some e85. If it gets nasty sticky, that's the answer.

IDK, man. I really doubt it; I don't think there is any oil pressure pushing against that seal. BUT, if the seal isn't working perfectly, it would just take a little amount each stroke to be deposited. After all, it works at 3x cam speed so we're talking about hundreds of thousands of revolutions where oil could be deposited.

I've been thinking about this since I got the mass spec reading back from Blackstone. The findings don't make sense - none of that shit should be in fuel, and none of them make up the seals or lines/linings, as far as I know.

I did mix e85 and oil way back when and it didn't do anything. Somewhere in the first 5 pages or so of this thread. But, that doesn't mimic conditions inside the pump if I just mix it and let it sit.

That's around what I do w 3.5 gallons e85 and 11.9afr. Kr is never a prob even w 100°.

I do -1 4 7.5 9.5 11.5 12.5 13.5 16... 7000 is 17 I don't want to go further w/o seeing if it is necessary via dyno. Maybe next time I do, Dustin won't drive my car off the rollers!

This is how i roll.....


I do get .3 sometimes thats about it.

I'll be sure to post my findings on timing/fueling Sunday night. Should be fun to see where it ends up :)

PS - I've run my .86l tune with the timing I posted above with 140°+ BAT's without any knock. The car loves it.

And heat it to 220* F

very carefully heat it...LOL

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h..._scientist.gif

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h..._scientist.jpg

Newest Map i haz.....Thing breaks the tires loose in 3rd pretty well all the time....Feels pretty damn strong....

Sorry for all the extra BS if i edit with my office 2007 it fucks it up.

Yea...I really need to get on the rollers but hope to have some upgrades happening soon.

To give you a not very good comparison, since that looks like a 4th gear log...I run through 4th gear - 3k rpm to 6k rpm - in just a touch under 6 seconds.

LMAO...Are you trying to say I'm a second slower than you LOL.

Bring it on down.

Well...yes.


IDK when the attached log was taken, but it's in my archive E85 folder, so it's probably fairly recent. 3 4th gear logs in there for you ;)

You and your mega FLOW....lol


I'll take some more of just 3k to 6k.....must be on this guys level....btw is this your .88 lambda map?

I love that little K04 :D

That was my .86l map running a little lean due to it getting pretty chilly here at night, recently.

PS - Load scaling was mentioned over on the Cobb forums, again, and this is Braden's reply:

I think this means we wouldn't have to scale our MAF curves if we want to run E85/mixes.

@Calvin@COBB - I see you creepin! Any word on anything - load/stoich/injector scaling, E85 testing, etc?

I'm a bit confused; why does the MAF need to be scaled? We have access to all the CL and OL fueling tables - we can just modify all the AFR targets directly.


Tapadatass

Because scaling the maf curve by a percentage and re-trimming is a hell of a lot less work than converting the AFRs to lambda, adjusting them, and reconverting to ratios and importing in 20 or so tables.

Maybe easier, but I prefer just scaling all the fuel tables. When scaling the MAF, you really should also adjust the CL breakpoints, and you lose a little MAF resolution.


Tapadatass

But that means i would have to run a shitty load based tune LOL.

I like the idea of adjusting a "lambda" setting..

IDK if we could actually just go in and change the fueling tables. Everything would need to be in terms of lambda...I'm not sure how the car would react to this.

We don't seem to have an option to monitor lambda with the AP, it's always converted to 14.7 stoich scale...

Hard to say what would make life easier.

It's accomplishing the same thing. Half dozen of one...6 of another?

@Calvin@COBB make our life easier LMAO!

It would be amazingly awesome if we could just globally scale stoich, an all the tables would automatically adjust.


Tapadatass

agreed dan

I have been meaning to post a request for injector scaling on Cobb's forum for a few weeks now...

It would be awesome to change 1 cell instead of dozens of tables to account for E85...

You only have to scale the MAF curve. Since we are looking at everything in gas stoich (14.7), and the car automatically converts lambda to the same scale, nothing else changes.


I do agree it would be nice to change the entire system's stoich ratio for E85. But, really, it's not that big of a deal since we don't know the exact percentage of ethanol in E85 (or gas, for that matter) at any given fill up.

I have to scale all my load curves, my timing curves, fuel curves, and etc.

Basically every table with load on it requires adjustment when you start lying about load via MAF curves increases...

Yeah, that is true. Having the timing resolution would be nice, since any time I'm in boost i'm above the 2.0 or 2.25 load max in the tables.

Right now, I feel like I'm stuck somewhere between super awesome ECU that does everything and a locked out distributor from 1971, LOL!

I have passed on the request for an injector scaler to our ECU Gurus.


I will soon be doing some more testing now that i have my car up and running again. :arms:

Calvin


3.71 Load :shocked::shocked::shocked:

i see a max 2.7 to 2.9

Can't wait for some of your results.

I did some pre-dyno maintenance/inspection today, for tomorrow. The HPFP looked really clean after ~1,000 miles. This is probably the cleanest it's been since I started running E85 :)

I thought I was screwed afterwards, though. The pump wouldn't build over ~900psi of pressure...turns out I didn't tighten the solenoid down quite far enough. Once that was snug, pressure was fine.

Checked my MAF cal and it's within +-.5% on the high end where it matters. Hopefully this all works out. I'm headed up north in just a while and should be on the rollers first thing in the morning :)

:popcorn:


BTW I think I am an official meth and eth head :) Haven't had time to tune for my 2.5 gallons of corn but the car does love it.

GL on the rollers Phate

I think its time to start looking at MAF volts instead of Load to determine power output. The MAF scaling for corn does indeed skew the load numbers.

injector scaling FTW so we can get back to real load numbers and not have to scale all the tables based on load...right?

Make us proud clint

tapa dat ass

My load hasnt changed like that due to e85. My Gs Is a lil different but thats it. If we went off maf volts it wouldnt take into account maf size. So we would need some kind of scale that dictates power vs volts scaled for each maf size. YOu wanna get that handled for us please. Thanks pimp. lol

What you talking bout willis?

if you scaled your maf up by 1.20 + your larger MAF, your load values are not realistic. Maf Vt may not work either but Load def doesn't work LOL

I'm not a math guy so can't help you on a MAF vt / power conversion there pimpdaddy :)

No results yet?

results are tasty :)

Fixed; oh and update plz kthx?

Phate texted me his numbers from the dyno run. I came.


Tapadatass

What a bunch of cock teasing in here


Tappin

Garbage. phate's next post better be made of Liquid Schwartz. I wanna know them damn results!

tap dat ass?

WTF man. We are waiting... @bewsted I need help on my map, my logs look nothing like yours in load or g/s terms and I am sad.

Who gives a fuck what a maf gs table tells you. Your load tables and maf voltage will tell you all you need to know as well as the dyno. Scaling my maf up is how I got my car to run e85. I know of no other way sukkafish!

Ps. All u gotta do is divide you maf by what ever the % is and you can get a very close # on gs.

1.5 hours from home still...I WILL post results tonight

1.5 hrs.. i'm sure its a 15min drive sir (for you)

Should I just spoil it? it is 300+ / 400+...

hmm.. a lot higher than I expected (285whp)

Quit being such a cock tease you fuck...

id be shocked if he broke 320

That's because my shit runs like a boss lol

tapa dat ass

OK, thanks to all for posting in the last couple hours. I got like 5 hours of sleep last night and the drive home is pretty dull. They kept me entertained :)

So anyway, on to the good stuff - got the car strapped down around 10:30 this morning. It was an absolutely beautiful day, there was almost no correction factor for some of the runs, lol. I made a quick baseline pull and the shop owner/dyno operator (Shawn) was like "uhhhh....something's fucked up, it's not reading right...". I wasn't near the computer so I asked him what the deal was, he said "this thing says you put down over 400ft/lb of torque?!?". LOL, yes it did, 1st pull ;)

I did my first pull with a 12.2:1 (.83 lambda) tune with 1° less timing than what I was running on the street. Here are my starting timing values (2500-6500):
After 19 pulls of throwing more and more timing at it, I ended up with this timing curve (2500-6500):
The top end power just kept climbing little by little, that's what took so many pulls to dial in. The low end could probably withstand a little bit more, but why? I took the timing from 4k-6500 to the point where I lost power. I backed it off by ~1° from where it made no difference, so I'm comfortable with these timing values.

The attached picture "Dyno_Base_Final_Compare_20110828" shows my first pull and the final pull on my .83l tune. I picked up ~20hp over the entire rpm range just by adding timing.

After I got finished up with the .83l tune, I wanted to test some leaner conditions. I hate to say it, but Dustin was right saying it doesn't make much difference. I made a baseline .86l pull with 2.5° less timing than my final .83l tune. Stepped up timing from there in just a few pulls and ended up with an almost identical power curve. The attached picture "Dyno_AFR_Compare_20110828" shows the results of changing the fueling.

____________________

Cliff Notes:

-Car ended with peak hp/torque of 325/425

-Car made 300+ hp starting at ~3900rpm

-Changing AFR's didn't have any significant affect on final power output, even after changing timing.

Attached pics of graphs are SAE correction from a DynoJet. Uncorrected numbers are ~5 less than SAE. It was a near perfect day, today. BAT's were in the 115-125°F range throughout the day. Every run was started with coolant temp ~187-190°F for consistency.

____________________

The car feels pretty darn good. It pulls ssssooooooooo smoothly and of course it feels a little faster than what it did beforehand. The flatness of the power curve really surprised me, but the car is damned fun to drive like this.

____________________

Forgot to post this, because someone is bound to ask:

"Mod List":

cpe CAI
Protege Garage TIP
Stainless Works Catless Downpipe
Fidanza Flywheel (LOL)
E85
Sexy tune via Cobb Accessport

Stock parts, just to clarify for those who ask anyway: stock TMIC, stock catback, stock exhaust manifold, stack intake manifold, Autolite XP Stock replacement spark plugs...there isn't much done to it!!!

that is so win phate! :You_Rock_Emoticon:

makes me want to go 100% (once i get FP internals)...

Wow! Good fucking job dude! That timing is crazy! I thought we didn't make much power after your original set up. Does e85 change that or am I just remembering wrong?

I've been waiting all night for this post! Another ko4 faster than my 2871!

edit: That graph is beautiful!

baller.

Christ almighty. New stock turbo records? Lol

PS - for those I texted - my numbers were off because the comp at the shop was set to a different correction factor. I told Shawn I didn't care what the numbers were, as long as I could compare runs. So I was looking at non-SAE #'s for the text, lol. :oops:

But man that is some awesome torque numbers!! Man was i good on my guestimate of HP, BUT im much more a torque person! Nice cliff thats some awesome torque numbers!

phate, we should get togethor some time soon, my new set-up is almost done and i need a few more vital parts, but i would love to do a 50/50 e85 and let you tune my car.

Are you using the fuel pump internals, or the whole fuel pump.

Guess I need to get my ass in gear....:(

Can you post data logs from the dyno pulls?

Bad ass BTW. Makes me want to go dyno now that I have my 3-Bar MAP sensor...

But I guess I need to add some more timing first! :arms:

Also, out of curiosity, by what percentage did you end up scaling your MAF curve for straight E85?

go out and pwn some evos now plz

12pk IIRC he scaled by 20% as a starting point and tweaked from there. You should do 20% of the whole curve then do a MAF cal on 100% E85. Honestly though I dont know if i would jump right into 100% i would start at like 60/40 mix. then 75/25, then 90 / 10 of e85/93 octane. This should limit the gunk going through your system, and make sure no bugs crop up while running the eth

Plus a 90/10 mix will prevent the cold start issues that e85 has. Just be sure to save your 93 tune.....

POW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy crap timing. I know E85 burns slower so it "needs" more timing, but I never expected to see that much of a difference.

jesus lol

ready to throw some more parts on there? haha

YOu believe me now? LOL

Now imagine with a nice tmic or fmic, DNP manifold, and a nice intake manifold> 350whp. Now peeps see how I was able to dyno 345whp out of a stock turbo srt and how the stock turbo subarus and cobalts are getting 375whp on stock turbo with e85. Mad timing. I put 42 degrees at my bros srt on e85 where it maxed at 30 before e85.

@phate : thanks.

I will be throwing timing at my bitch like no tomorrow now that you did this.

How much boost were you running?

I had to scale my MAF +16% on 50/50 e85/ 93.

I was right about there also.

I'm in Decatur you are in Champaign, mucho dinero to tuneage my automobile /nod

Great numbers and nice looking curve as well. Makes me jealous and want to really take a look at trying to tune in some timing in my map.

BTW, did you ever list your mods anywhere? I don't recall what you have on your car. Also, what boost were you running for these runs? Any data logs from the runs would be great.