E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by phate Yeah, the plugs need closed up a little bit for straight E85 in this weather, I'm sure. When I ran the two tanks of E50 last week (two weeks ago?), it didn't do it in the same temps. At this point, my E30/E50/E? results will be skewed due to the cold weather. It's only getting into the 60's right now during the day...when I'm at work. Now I get a side note: The car fucking rips. We had some fun Saturday night. I ran a 6.0L GTO (40 roll) which was cammed/intake/full exhaust/tune/slicks/suspension/misc other little shit and was dead even until I tried to go to 5th and ground the shit out of it. Also ran (25 roll, spinning 2nd and 3rd, lol) a cam/intake/full exhaust/tune/etc LS1 TransAm that night and outran it by just a bit. There is video of this, somewhere. I'll post it when I get my hands on it. And apparently when cruising my exhaust sometimes just lights on fire inside the pipe and just stays lit for 5-10 seconds at a time. A guy cruising behind me said it was cool as hell

Afterburner mod FTW!

[J-Liss]

phate omgawd i <3 you

[JLee1469]

My car needs a touch of phate

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[zenger]

Tuned on E
350hp380tq

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by zenger Tuned on E 350hp380tq

Dyno plot and logs?

[zenger]

Still driving home in the next few days here

Was only 20psi

[phate]

With the BNR Stage III, I'd believe it. Looking forward to dyno results and data logs.

We need more straight E85 testers!!!!

[Ziggo]

Good shit.


Zigatapatalka

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by phate We need more straight E85 testers!!!!

LOL...I am getting there...0.5 gal at a time.

Put in 7.5 gallons on the current tank.

[silvapain]

Ugh. I really wish I still had an E85 pump in town. I'm so jelly people call me Welch's.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by zenger Tuned on E 350hp380tq

Entirely on e85? Or a mix?

[phate]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Entirely on e85? Or a mix?

LOL, I think we're all waiting anxiously for those details.

[bewsted]

Not impressed @ those numbers....

Considering what Clint just did on the k04!

@Dano makes 350 on his 2871....practically the same thing....and that was before dano had e85.

[Dano]

lol that 350 was on a shitty tune in 108* temps but yeah...

imma at 400 (take with a grain of salt) now on a 1/2 baked tune of 3/9 E V-Dyno plots

speaking of that...is there really a need for 100% E?

methinks no.

[zenger]

20# boost, low fuel light had just come on so 2 gal of 93 4 gallons of E85.

Maf was hitting 4.8 said he didn't want to push it any further. I told him to be conservative, I couldn't have a blown motor at this time. He felt with 22-23# boost and more timing 380-400 wouldn't have been out of the question.

And BTW I'm not a MS3, bewsted

[J-Liss]

None the less those are good numbers bro. Good work.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by zenger And BTW I'm not a MS3, bewsted

O I C

didn't notice that...great numbers then on a MS6 and beener.

Originally Posted by zenger He felt with 22-23# boost and more timing 380-400 wouldn't have been out of the question.

not too sure 400 is doable in a 6 but none the less 350 looks solid.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Dano speaking of that...is there really a need for 100% E? methinks no.

Me knows my car didn't pull as hard after switching to 50/50, but I didn't run it for long enough to dial it in. I'm going to guess, once dialed in, that 50/50 would be within 5% of the power I see with straight E85.



zenger, that's roughly E55 if your 2 gallons estimate is correct. I know in my MS3, the low fuel light is closer to 3-4 gallons (i've ran it empty twice, lol).

[J-Liss]

just got my 10g check from work...time to order the FUUU outta stuff!

[Dano]

Originally Posted by phate Me knows my car didn't pull as hard after switching to 50/50, but I didn't run it for long enough to dial it in. I'm going to guess, once dialed in, that 50/50 would be within 5% of the power I see with straight E85. zenger, that's roughly E55 if your 2 gallons estimate is correct. I know in my MS3, the low gallon light is closer to 3-4 gallons (i've ran it empty twice, lol).

cool mang...you are stretching the K04 to its limits so the 100% probably makes more of a difference there vs with a larger turbo. I guess there are just some trade offs with anything. larger turbo guys can't even run 100%E unless they get alternate fueling. I personally could but don't see the need esp since there is apparently some issue with gunk buildup in the fuel pump.

I'll prab stick with the 3/9 mix and get the tune dialed in. I need to re-gap my plugs so I may just throw the stock range ones back in since fall is here. Save my 22s for summer.

[zenger]

Originally Posted by phate Me knows my car didn't pull as hard after switching to 50/50, but I didn't run it for long enough to dial it in. I'm going to guess, once dialed in, that 50/50 would be within 5% of the power I see with straight E85. zenger, that's roughly E55 if your 2 gallons estimate is correct. I know in my MS3, the low gallon light is closer to 3-4 gallons (i've ran it empty twice, lol).

Really 3-4? Every car I've owned it's been 2 gallons. I've ran it super low before and filled up with just over 15 gallons. So I assume it's a 16 gallon tank.

Originally Posted by Dano O I C didn't notice that...great numbers then on a MS6 and beener. not too sure 400 is doable in a 6 but none the less 350 looks solid.

beener? lol

3# of boost should be 20-25 HP by itself not to mention added timing, I think on this turbo 400 is for sure possible in an ms6

btw still waiting on the graphs and any logs the tuner might have saved to his laptop. Definitely have graphs within a few days I hope, and if not logs I can take some myself.

Originally Posted by J-Liss just got my 10g check from work...time to order the FUUU outta stuff!

Awesome, you road race? street race? drag race?

Road race - small turbo fast spooler

Street race - big mofo turbo gtx76 or bigger

Drag race - something in between gtx71 maybe a gtx76

GL to your future modding and tuning goals! lol

[Ziggo]

22-23psi is within the BNR's capability, but you really need to upgrade the MAP sensor, and with that much E you might run out of fuel first. Phate is hitting the fueling limit and getting blowout on E @ 330 right? 50/50 is probably somewhere around 380.

I am convinced and I am going to make an E run before I hit the dyno on my S3. Going to start with the minimum I can get away with running. This 9* of timing at the top is for the birds.

[Calvin@COBB]

Put my car on the dyno the other night to test some HPFP stuff so I didn't get to spend much time actualy tuning for power but still managed to pull 402wtq and 325whp out of the stock turbo and 100% E85.

Dyno Database Online

[phate]

Originally Posted by Calvin@COBB Put my car on the dyno the other night to test some HPFP stuff so I didn't get to spend much time actualy tuning for power but still managed to pull 402wtq and 325whp out of the stock turbo and 100% E85. Dyno Database Online

Thanks, Calvin. I'll be the first to ask, lol: any info on the tune - timing/datalogs/etc?

What's your expert opinion of how the car runs on E85 and how the E85 fared against gas?

Originally Posted by Ziggo Phate is hitting the fueling limit and getting blowout on E @ 330 right? 50/50 is probably somewhere around 380. I am convinced and I am going to make an E run before I hit the dyno on my S3. Going to start with the minimum I can get away with running. This 9* of timing at the top is for the birds.

I'm pretty much convinced the blowout is purely spark plug gap related. I'm going to pull my HPFP and plugs in just a few minutes to decrease the gap to .025" and clean up the HPFP. I started dropping fuel pressure randomly today...just it's way of telling me it needs cleaned.

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by phate Thanks, Calvin. I'll be the first to ask, lol: any info on the tune - timing/datalogs/etc? What's your expert opinion of how the car runs on E85 and how the E85 fared against gas? I'm pretty much convinced the blowout is purely spark plug gap related. I'm going to pull my HPFP and plugs in just a few minutes to decrease the gap to .025" and clean up the HPFP. I started dropping fuel pressure randomly today...just it's way of telling me it needs cleaned.

Ditto, in for details!

[Calvin@COBB]

Log

[Calvin@COBB]

Car has some fueling issues I am trying to work out other than that the car runs better than ever before.

[Ziggo]

Thanks for the log, I have never looked at an E85 log before, it does a number on the calculated load values.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Calvin@COBB Car has some fueling issues I am trying to work out other than that the car runs better than ever before.

Am I getting something wrong or would maximum load be constant for both E85 and some sort of mix?

As in, if per your log, fueling becomes an issue at a 2.4 load @ 6500+, on a 50/50 mix a 2.4 load would be the limit, and on a pure gasoline mix 2.4 load would still be the limit.

I say this because injector pulsewidth\amt injected is tied directly to calculated load.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Calvin@COBB Log

Thanks for the log. Looks like our cars run very similarly from ~4k rpm on up, as we are achieving roughly the same load values. Glad to see you're back in the e-game!!

Originally Posted by Ziggo Am I getting something wrong or would maximum load be constant for both E85 and some sort of mix? As in, if per your log, fueling becomes an issue at a 2.4 load @ 6500+, on a 50/50 mix a 2.4 load would be the limit, and on a pure gasoline mix 2.4 load would still be the limit. I say this because injector pulsewidth\amt injected is tied directly to calculated load.

Misread: yes, you are correct. The load and airflow values should be very similar to what would be seen on gas.

[Bucker]

For the log, good stuff, TONS OF TIMING in the middle. I need to add a bit to mine, that might be the trick I need.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Bucker For the log, good stuff, TONS OF TIMING in the middle. I need to add a bit to mine, that might be the trick I need.

Its load + RPM Buck.

[phate]

Just pulled the spill valve solenoid and it came out cleaner than ever before...Just the tiniest bit of residue on it seemed to be the problem. Maybe the tides have turned now that the new ITFP filter has been in place. I'm still not running the secondary in-line filter...

[phate]

We will have another straight E85 tester beginning in the next week or so

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a glorious day!!!

[Manny]

Originally Posted by Calvin@COBB Put my car on the dyno the other night to test some HPFP stuff so I didn't get to spend much time actualy tuning for power but still managed to pull 402wtq and 325whp out of the stock turbo and 100% E85.

awesome numbers! mods?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Calvin@COBB Log

Did you push timing to MBT at 3000-6500 at each 500 RPM break point?

It looks like you are running way less timing than Phate's identified MBT from 5500-6500 RPMs, but very similar below that:

RPM    	       3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6500
Phate E85 MBT	 8	10	11.5	13	16.5	19.5	22	24
Calvin E85       9	10.5	12.0	13.5	15.0	16.5	18.0	19.0
Delta            -1	-0.5	-0.5	-0.5	1.5	3	4	5

Also, what mods?

Very nicely done BTW!

[J-Liss]

Originally Posted by phate We will have another straight E85 tester beginning in the next week or so EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a glorious day!!!

make that two....

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Ok, so I've been getting some help from bewsted and bucker on my tune cuz my MAF cal on e85 was way off... I almost have everything how it should be, but there is one question that I still can't find a good answer to.

That is, why am I getting slightly lower g/s on my e85 tune? With e85, my timing MAF, boost and fuel have all been maximized... Increased massively, scaled pretty accurately, increased by 1 psi and leaned out to 12.1 respectively. Now, comparing 2 4th gear logs (one pre eth, and one today w 4 gallons) shows a decrease of 2 seconds from 60-100 which is great! But even w lower bats, I'm getting slightly lower g/s.

In the end, power is what matters and not what my g/s are, but I still want to know what is going on. Thanks for the help.

I can post the logs in a couple of hours.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Ok, so I've been getting some help from bewsted and bucker on my tune cuz my MAF cal on e85 was way off... I almost have everything how it should be, but there is one question that I still can't find a good answer to. That is, why am I getting slightly lower g/s on my e85 tune? With e85, my timing MAF, boost and fuel have all been maximized... Increased massively, scaled pretty accurately, increased by 1 psi and leaned out to 12.1 respectively. Now, comparing 2 4th gear logs (one pre eth, and one today w 4 gallons) shows a decrease of 2 seconds from 60-100 which is great! But even w lower bats, I'm getting slightly lower g/s. In the end, power is what matters and not what my g/s are, but I still want to know what is going on. Thanks for the help. I can post the logs in a couple of hours.

Post maf leak of some sort would explain this. I've talked to Bucker about this, already, and it is the simplest explanation. You're inconsistent AFR's indicate there is a leak somewhere, as well.

You can tune around a leak, but it does skew your g/s (not like they aren't already b/c of the E85).

OR, you had a leak before, and it is now fixed. Which means your old tune was skewed, and you need to fix everything, lol.

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by phate Post maf leak of some sort would explain this. I've talked to Bucker about this, already, and it is the simplest explanation. You're inconsistent AFR's indicate there is a leak somewhere, as well. You can tune around a leak, but it does skew your g/s (not like they aren't already b/c of the E85). OR, you had a leak before, and it is now fixed. Which means your old tune was skewed, and you need to fix everything, lol.

Yeah, looking through your stuff even more, it is really pointing to a small, consistent leak post-turbo...