E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues

[Fatguy729]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I imagine the narrow band would be used for this as well... considering it's used to calibrate the wideband. And if my guy's narrow band is acting up... perhaps it's affecting this measurement some how. OR..... perhaps i'm just grasping at straws hahaha.

hey damn it that was my idea LOL

Originally Posted by Fatguy729 Perhaps this is the reason (other than cat efficiency) for the 2nd DP O2 sensor that seemingly does nothing?

But as I've pointed out before.... everything that spews from your keyboard is gold!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by event Targeting 11.8 on E28 and my WOT AFRs are 12.0 ish

Let us know if those change over time.

[superskaterxes]

ready for some fucked up shit?

so this is my new tank of E30. i put about 20 miles on it before i started logging. Datalog1 was done at about 6pm and the other 2 were back to back around 930pm. my WOT AFR targets are 12.2. WTF!!!!!!!!!

EDIT: ok on the green log i layed into the throttle instead of just mashing it and i guess thats why VD cut it off even though i have auto trim TPS turned off. i also havent adjusted WOT AFR's since i started with E85 tuning. they were dead on @12.2 on pump before hand. logs attached

[mrmonk7663]

WTF your AFR is logging crazy lean. I guess i'm posting the obvious but do you have any idea why its happening? I logged my car on 3 gallons E85 to a full tank yesterday and had some LTFTs that needed adjusting, but AFR was fine. Could it be the inconsistency of the pump E85?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 WTF your AFR is logging crazy lean. I guess i'm posting the obvious but do you have any idea why its happening? I logged my car on 3 gallons E85 to a full tank yesterday and had some LTFTs that needed adjusting, but AFR was fine. Could it be the inconsistency of the pump E85?

well i suspect that its due to me not touching the WOT part of the MAF curve.

i also use the same pump from the same station which is brand new and 1/2 mile from my house. i also add the E85 first and then top the rest off with 93 also from the same pump (not the same nozzle of course). i even went so far to look at the diagram of the fuel filler tube and the tank on the MS6 to see if maby the E85 was filling the non ITFP side first and then the 93 was filling the ITFP side after and not mixing well but that doesent seem to be the case.

i think im going to try and play with my MAF curve to see if i can control this but im already at 100% IDC with the ~12.7 run so im not sure how much farther i can go. my commanded DIFP is also 2000 as well and i hold mid 1900's. i wish this damm upgraded sensor was ready already!!! i may need to switch back to dual D07 nozzles to try and tame this beast.

[speedms6]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes well i suspect that its due to me not touching the WOT part of the MAF curve. i also use the same pump from the same station which is brand new and 1/2 mile from my house. i also add the E85 first and then top the rest off with 93 also from the same pump (not the same nozzle of course). i even went so far to look at the diagram of the fuel filler tube and the tank on the MS6 to see if maby the E85 was filling the non ITFP side first and then the 93 was filling the ITFP side after and not mixing well but that doesent seem to be the case. i think im going to try and play with my MAF curve to see if i can control this but im already at 100% IDC with the ~12.7 run so im not sure how much farther i can go. my commanded DIFP is also 2000 as well and i hold mid 1900's. i wish this damm upgraded sensor was ready already!!! i may need to switch back to dual D07 nozzles to try and tame this beast.

i'm no expert, but i think that may be your problem, not touching the WOT part of your maf scale, it looks like it may be hard for the big turbo guys to run e85 as anything more then mixing a couple gallons to help with a little kr, dont think our injectors can push enough fuel

[Nataphen]

If you're at 100% IDC, isn't it possible that 13-14:1 AFR is all that the fuel system can muster? With bigger injectors pumping more fuel, that would fatten up the mixture more and get you back down to your targets. Yes? No?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Nataphen If you're at 100% IDC, isn't it possible that 13-14:1 AFR is all that the fuel system can muster? With bigger injectors pumping more fuel, that would fatten up the mixture more and get you back down to your targets. Yes? No?

i only hit 100% right before RL. im hitting 13.8 AFR right off the bat and holding it the whole way.


i may have more information on this as i now have taken a look at these logs and my MAF curve is all sorts of fucked up.

heres a log from aug sometime (pump gas):






and here is this most recent one Posted on VD above:







i have another maf at home im going to try but i seem to have this same problem above on and off so i will look into it more before i continue tuning.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by event Targeting 11.8 on E28 and my WOT AFRs are 12.0 ish

interesting...first WOT AF shift I am aware of at such a low mixture ratio...

how close was your maf beforehand? meaning was your command and logged the same before?

[Ziggo]

Also, how soon after the switch was the log? When was the last reflash before the log?


Zigatapatalka

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Also, how soon after the switch was the log? When was the last reflash before the log? Zigatapatalka

i put about 20 miles on the tank after going from E20 to E30. the last time i reflashed was right before i put the E30 in.

[superskaterxes]

I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!!!

so this morning dustin tells me to check to see if my BOV was leaking. now obviously this wont show up in a boost leak test so i went to HD to buy 4 washers to shim my BOV.

here were this mornings results......





and after the shimming.......




i gained 35 g/s with no other changes but the shims lol needless to say ill be redoing that 40-110 video i posted from this morning. my AFR's are also back in check, still about 1/2 a point lean but better then 1.5 pts from this morning haha


WOOT BACK TO TUNING!!!!!

[J-Liss]

good stuff skatez

[superskaterxes]

on a better note, i added 1.5 deg this morning and im already up to 440 g/s lolol

im getting some bad breakup as i hit 100% IDC around 6k so i need to add my second D07 back in to help bring those IDC's down.

[J-Liss]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes on a better note, i added 1.5 deg this morning and im already up to 440 g/s lolol im getting some bad breakup as i hit 100% IDC around 6k so i need to add my second D07 back in to help bring those IDC's down.

get that IDC DOWN PLZ

skates how many shims you rockin in your turboxs

[phate]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes on a better note, i added 1.5 deg this morning and im already up to 440 g/s lolol im getting some bad breakup as i hit 100% IDC around 6k so i need to add my second D07 back in to help bring those IDC's down.

What are your plugs gapped at? I had to take mine from .028" to .024" and it fixed up everything [And that's at >100% IDC.]

[bewsted]

Those afr's are all over the place

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by J-Liss get that IDC DOWN PLZ skates how many shims you rockin in your turboxs

lol prob enough for like 1/2" worth of washers, IDGAF as long as that bitch dont leak lol

Originally Posted by phate What are your plugs gapped at? I had to take mine from .028" to .024" and it fixed up everything [And that's at >100% IDC.]

last time i checked i was at .025 so im pretty close to max on the 2 step colders before your ground electrode looks like a limp dick lol

Originally Posted by bewsted Those afr's are all over the place

yah i realized my MAF curve looked like an AC signal today so i went and smoothed the shit out of it and i will take some more logs tonight. hopefully the extra meth will put me back in check.

[RichieRichness]

bring your 6 to v-ball tonight nukkah!

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes yah i realized my MAF curve looked like an AC signal today so i went and smoothed the shit out of it and i will take some more logs tonight. hopefully the extra meth will put me back in check.

Isn't crazy how the little differences in fueling affect it so much lol....


Maf cal's with e85 and mass quantities of meth make things fUn

[superskaterxes]

well i honestly havent touched the WOT part of my curve yet since ive been on E85. im gona see how it looks today after being smoothed and adding extra meth.

btw FYI

Upgraded ITFP Options!!!!!!!!!

[Dano]

Originally Posted by bewsted Isn't crazy how the little differences in fueling affect it so much lol.... Maf cal's with e85 and mass quantities of meth make things fUn

makes me wish I had a maf triggered WMI controller...then you could really dial in the start point of spray by scaling down the MAF at that voltage/trigger point and keep the AF curve much closer to flat. I see a 1.0 shift at spray start...I guess its not that big a deal but it is also occurring in the spool range so I'd like to be lean and not rich.

yet another thing on my list of wants lol

[cld12pk2go]

Bummer.

Looks like no K04 E85 insanity dyno in my future.

I got the shriek of death on the drive home today from my turbo at about 5 PSI, which repeated the next few times I lightly rolled into the throttle to get into mild boost.

Essentially, my compressor is almost certainly contacting the compressor housing resulting in the loud audible shriek.

Now the question is BNR S3 or ATP GTX3071 kit as they can be had relatively cheap at MSF vendors for about ~$400 above the BNR S3 price...

At least the wife was cool...looks like the turbo upgrade is my Xmas present this year (best one EVAR!).

[Dano]

sorry to hear that but you were pushing the lil guy to the limit and beyond lol

hands down GTX3071 hell to the yes!!!!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano sorry to hear that but you were pushing the lil guy to the limit and beyond lol hands down GTX3071 hell to the yes!!!!

That is what I am leaning towards...

The BNR S3 is still a great value, but I had historically been comparing it to the full ATP price, which evidently some vendors can under cut by a shit-load, which is likely going to shift the calculus into the GTX's favor...

Plus, I haven't ported anything recently...so I guess the ATP turbine housing is a good excuse to fire up the air compressor and grinder....

[Dano]

lol at the grinder

with just a 400 delta that does give the GTX a compelling argument. you will likely have the same spool time as the GT28/BNR3 yet hold more power up top and flow way more g/s.

I see no reason NOT to go with the GTX3071...That's the only turbo I would take my GT28 off for.

edit: if you want me to loan you my K04 I'll send it your way...I wouldn't' want to drive with the turbo spitting pieces of AL into my piping and motor.

you can't run it at 22 PSI though

[Ziggo]

New GTX housings don't need to be ported. The GTX3071 is a great choice, you only trade 3-400rpm in spool. I would look into a bigger MAF so you can really run it though.


Zigatapatalka

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Ziggo New GTX housings don't need to be ported. The GTX3071 is a great choice, you only trade 3-400rpm in spool. I would look into a bigger MAF so you can really run it though. Zigatapatalka

Yeah, my best guess is that it would spool in the 3300-3500 RPM range (say to 20 PSI on a 4th gear roll)...

The BNR S3 would be more like 3000-3100 from the data I have seen.

I am ASSuMEing that he GTX turbine housing is the same as the GT turbine housing which is still somewhat lacking from ATP (no longer runaway creep, but not able to control below ~18 PSI up top IIRC). Porting out the diameter 1-2 mm and massaging the inlet to the WG port seems like a pretty good idea.

[Ziggo]

FWIW after VVT changes I spool more like ~2900 with the throttle closing to limit load by 3000. I have not played with it anymore since I don't need it to spool lower, but you can play the same games on the GTX and I don't think anyone has done it yet.


Zigatapatalka

[BigjohnB20]

Damn I was really looking forward to what you were going to put down. Most surely a record for K04. But you were beating the shit out of that poor thing. Surprised it made it as long as it did. So I guess now you will "have" to upgrade

I am with Dano on this one. GTX3071 all the way.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano edit: if you want me to loan you my K04 I'll send it your way...I wouldn't' want to drive with the turbo spitting pieces of AL into my piping and motor. you can't run it at 22 PSI though

Thanks for the offer, but I am just going to stay out of boost completely until the change.

Originally Posted by BigjohnB20 Damn I was really looking forward to what you were going to put down. Most surely a record for K04. But you were beating the shit out of that poor thing. Surprised it made it as long as it did. So I guess now you will "have" to upgrade I am with Dano on this one. GTX3071 all the way.

Exactly. LOL.

Luckily my wife is awesome so it isn't a big deal.

[Fatguy729]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Luckily my wife is awesome so it isn't a big deal.

must be nice!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by BigjohnB20 Damn I was really looking forward to what you were going to put down. Most surely a record for K04. But you were beating the shit out of that poor thing. Surprised it made it as long as it did..

Yes, the K04 has served me well. I cannot fault it for dieing after the torture I had put it threw the past 2 years.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Thanks for the offer, but I am just going to stay out of boost completely until the change.

is that possible?? lol Its been killing me and for only a week...are you ordering the Xmas present early I hope?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano is that possible?? lol Its been killing me and for only a week...are you ordering the Xmas present early I hope?

Yeah, I am currently specifying all the required parts. Will probably order tomorrow for install next week-ish.

Currently celebrating the K04's life with some fine 21-yr old scotch...

[Dano]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

nice!

12pk with a big turbo...that's scary!!!

[superskaterxes]

21YRscth2go? lol

im still baffled why ANYONE would chose a BNR turbo, stock hotside? what could possibly be worse? and they arent even priced reasonably. your paying dam near what you would for a DBB GTX turbo from ATP!

but yay for new turbo!!!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes 21YRscth2go? lol

Cannot go wrong with this fabulous elixir:

Ballantine's 21 Year Old : Buy Online - The Whisky Exchange

Of course the "stock" BNR hot side is bored out to fit a much larger and freer flowing GT28 turbine wheel, but I get your point...

[Nataphen]

Kind of bittersweet, I was really looking forward to those numbers on the k04 after seeing phate's. I'm glad that you're able to get a BT though, and maybe we'll see some e85 BT dyno numbers sooner rather than later.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Yeah, I am currently specifying all the required parts. Will probably order tomorrow for install next week-ish. Currently celebrating the K04's life with some fine 21-yr old scotch...

That will be a very early Xmas present. Lol. Glad it will all work out in the end!

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