E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues

[JacksonMS30]

Wow I let this thread get away from me. DJ and I are working out my new big MAF intake right now but it will hopfully be squared away before friday. I'll be running a couple gallons of E85 at the track and will do a back to back VD comparo of before and after the E is added.

One thing to note, with the addition of the big maf intake, I now have slight boost creep.

Also, this is with the MBC on lowest setting.

EDIT: Once I get my ex mani and egt gauge, I'll be jumping on a dyno to test out the leaner = better theory. I know there is no hard evidence at the moment to back it up but I would def like to see it work. Lower IDC ftw!

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 Wow I let this thread get away from me. DJ and I are working out my new big MAF intake right now but it will hopfully be squared away before friday. I'll be running a couple gallons of E85 at the track and will do a back to back VD comparo of before and after the E is added. One thing to note, with the addition of the big maf intake, I now have slight boost creep. Also, this is with the MBC on lowest setting. EDIT: Once I get my ex mani and egt gauge, I'll be jumping on a dyno to test out the leaner = better theory. I know there is no hard evidence at the moment to back it up but I would def like to see it work. Lower IDC ftw!

From everything I've seen, the leaner = better theory ONLY applies in condition where you would see high IDC's at high rpm.

The ONLY time I saw a significant increase in power was when I was at 13.3-13.5:1 from just under 6k-RL. This is when my IDC's would have normally been in the mid 90's, but were around 80 instead because of the lean afr.

My theory on that power increase = The leaner requested afr is accompanied by a shorter PW which also creates a lower IDC. This helps tremendously at high rpm because it actually gets the fuel back to being injected efficiently, and fully inside the injection window (before the spark event). This creates a much cleaner, more efficient burn and combustion, which, in turn creates more power.

This is also why I believe I never get blow-out or the black soot at high rpm that the higher hp guys have been seeing.

With all that said... I have not installed my egt guage, so I've gone back to 12.3:1 for the time being...

EDIT: I know it's been brought up before about our IDC's being goofy, and that's the truth... we don't have IDC's the same way a PI car does. There is no electrical/mechanical duty cycle being monitored on our injectors. Our IDC is just a calculation. This calculation can be greatly skewed by your maf scale and OL AFR targets, and I think a closer look into how we can use this ability to work to our advantage would be a great idea...

[superskaterxes]

havent we decided that IDC is just the amount of time were flowing fuel during the intake/compression stroke? ie 95% IDC means we start flowing fuel right at TDC and stop ~18deg (95% of 360 deg stroke) BTDC? i know whenever i hit 100% i get some nasty ass blowout where others seems to be able to stretch way past that without problems.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes havent we decided that IDC is just the amount of time were flowing fuel during the intake/compression stroke? ie 95% IDC means we start flowing fuel right at TDC and stop ~18deg (95% of 360 deg stroke) BTDC? i know whenever i hit 100% i get some nasty ass blowout where others seems to be able to stretch way past that without problems.

IDC summary is here:
Logged Injector pulsewidth is incorrect

It's representative, but 100% doesn't mean you are maxed, and under 100% doesn't mean you couldn't pick up more power from reducing it further.


Zigatapatalka

[superskaterxes]

100% seems to be the magic breaking point for me. anything below 97 or so and the car pulls fine but above that its just a mess.

we need @djuosnteisn to hook that scope back up and do some additional testing

[Nataphen]

So, maybe it's time that we start researching modified injectors again. Whoosh worked on it a long time ago, but we are getting more and more people at or near the limit now. E85 tuning especially would benefit since a well tuned BT and E85 pretty much seems to equal 100% IDC.

[Enki]

You don't need a BT to peg the injectors.

@phate (lol)

[RichieRichness]

Fuel pressure is super low. Anthony helped me check pump and its perfect. Now we are thinking it's the relief valve. Anyone have an extra?


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[Enki]

You clean yours out yet?

[RichieRichness]

Originally Posted by Enki You clean yours out yet?

No it's never been taken out. I'm only running 2.5 gallons of e85...I think I'm in the market for a new one

update: Picked one up from Realgib3..thanks Mark and Ant

[silvapain]

Made the switch to straight E85 yesterday.

Here we go.


Tapadatass

[J-Liss]

Originally Posted by silvapain Made the switch to straight E85 yesterday. Here we go. Tapadatass

make me proud danny my love.

[Enki]

Guess that means I'm up next. My internals should be shipping today (hopefully).

[Enki]

Internals shipped today, will be here Wednesday according to tracking. I should have the gas tank empty and ready for the first fat batch of alchie on Friday, which is likely when I'll make my thread.

Hopefully, I can get this downpipe swapped out soonish today/tomorrow morning.

[Dano]

are you going to install a filter inline right before the CDFP like Phate did?

[Enki]

Negative. No filter, no SeaFoam, nothing more than a watchful eye and a toolbox complete with cleaning kit at the ready should it be required.

[Dano]

haha

just read bozo's thread....maybe the seafoam helped him out or poor Phate was just a fluke case...lol

you and silva will certainly bring more needed data to the table.

how many miles on your car?

I switched to 3/9 blend around 45K and I think I am ready to try 5050

[Enki]

I've been running 3/9 for about 2k miles; almost at 30k on the clock.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Dano haha just read bozo's thread....maybe the seafoam helped him out or poor Phate was just a fluke case...lol you and silva will certainly bring more needed data to the table. how many miles on your car? I switched to 3/9 blend around 45K and I think I am ready to try 5050

I really, really hope we can call mine "worst case". I want to see more people switch to full E85 and reap the benefits. It's such a HUGE difference from gas, and you don't have to do math or move the car when you're at the gas station.

I am looking forward to seeing more people switch. It sounds like we will actually have 5 full E85 mazdas by the end of this month I'm effin EXCITED for these guys!!!

Seeing how other cars 'react' will certainly be interesting.

[rfinkle2]

I know most of you guys are moving towards running 100% e85, but all this e-85 talk and results spurred me to go out and get 2 5 gallon gas containers in order to run 3 gallons @ each fill.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by phate I really, really hope we can call mine "worst case". I want to see more people switch to full E85 and reap the benefits. It's such a HUGE difference from gas, and you don't have to do math or move the car when you're at the gas station. I am looking forward to seeing more people switch. It sounds like we will actually have 5 full E85 mazdas by the end of this month I'm effin EXCITED for these guys!!! Seeing how other cars 'react' will certainly be interesting.

haha

yes going to two different pumps at each fillup is lame...at least the station I visit is like a 16 pump station and there is always an open pump. 2 of which are E pumps.

[JLee1469]

Shit I'd hop on the 100% if I didn't have issues on 50/50. Seafoamed and filled up 93 today, hope di fuel psi is back to normal.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by phate I really, really hope we can call mine "worst case".

I believe you got bad fuel; so much so, I'm jumping in the deep end with both feet first.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki I believe you got bad fuel; so much so, I'm jumping in the deep end with both feet first.

You may be right, we had some bad e85 on post for the military flex vehicles that caused all sorts of problems.

I do wish you would run an inline filter though, I ran seafoam way before I even knew about e85 and I would like to know if it will catch it, whether it be bad gas or build up.

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[Enki]

All the other times a filter has been used, it came out clean didn't it?

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki All the other times a filter has been used, it came out clean didn't it?

There are only 2 times that I know of, @phate and myself. Phate started out not using one and after having problems installed. At this point the issue had been resolved and the bad gas or build up or whatever was had already moved through the system. I started out using one in the beginning, but as I stated previously I had been running seafoam religiously every 2k miles long before even considering using E85.

If you swap and use a filter without prior use of additives this would let us know 3 things, 1 is ethanol breaking up build up in the system and causing problems, or are people getting bad gas, 2 is the use of additives prior to swap helping to alleviate the problem and 3 is the filter an effective preventative measure for stopping it.

Regardless of whether you use a filter or not we will most likely find out the answer to 1 and 2. Also you may save yourself some of the ass pain that phate went through initially.

[Enki]

Well, I don't really have any of the stuff needed to set up an inline filter, but with a parts list I could do it.

I'm not really adverse to cleaning the pump kind of often though.

[Nataphen]

Catch me up on this Sea Foam prep thing. Are you just adding a can to your gas tank every so often to keep things cleaned out? I've been doing that, but just not as frequently as every 2k miles. My MS3 would be more of a candidate for the switch I think since I've been up to date on maintenance and Sea Foam treatments since new. My MS6, having 70k miles and not knowing how it's been treated before about 66k miles, has me a little on the leery side. I need more e85 in the area before I consider going 100% really though, the closest station being almost an hour away.

[phate]

Originally Posted by JLee1469 Shit I'd hop on the 100% if I didn't have issues on 50/50. Seafoamed and filled up 93 today, hope di fuel psi is back to normal.

Let me know how that goes!!

Originally Posted by Enki Well, I don't really have any of the stuff needed to set up an inline filter, but with a parts list I could do it. I'm not really adverse to cleaning the pump kind of often though.

The fuel line bozo and I used is L33X-13-49XA. The fuel filter is from an 03-04 SVT Cobra (the supercharged one).

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki Well, I don't really have any of the stuff needed to set up an inline filter, but with a parts list I could do it. I'm not really adverse to cleaning the pump kind of often though.

Here are the parts. It's the same fuel line that already runs into the pump already so all you have to do is unplug the one from the pump and plug it into the back of the filter, take the new and plug the back into the filter and the front into the pump. (you can tell the back and front of the line by the QD's it uses, although i'm sure it makes no difference I'm just OCD about shit like that)

Originally Posted by glorifiedbozo So I started talking to @phate about a week ago, and decided I would be the next guinea pig. He had some issue's with the Spill Valve solenoid going bad when he initially switched, so after talking we decided to do a couple things to prep. He sent me a fuel line (Part #L33X-13-49XA) and I installed an inline fuel filter (the one from the 03-04 cobra). I also made an attempt at pulling the in tank pump, however I ran into some issue's. The place I was doing it didn't have the special tool to remove the pump itself, I would have ended up breaking it to get it out. So I decided to proceed and hope the filter catches the majority.

Originally Posted by Nataphen Catch me up on this Sea Foam prep thing. Are you just adding a can to your gas tank every so often to keep things cleaned out? I've been doing that, but just not as frequently as every 2k miles. My MS3 would be more of a candidate for the switch I think since I've been up to date on maintenance and Sea Foam treatments since new. My MS6, having 70k miles and not knowing how it's been treated before about 66k miles, has me a little on the leery side. I need more e85 in the area before I consider going 100% really though, the closest station being almost an hour away.

If you have been using SeaFoam since you got the car you are probably good. I did every 2k based on what it says on the can, and the fact that I bought the car with 39k miles on it all ready. Have you used SeaFoam on your MS6 at all?

Yeah there are only 2 E85 pumps with in a 45ish mile radius here and it makes things a pain in the ass. While 1 of them is only like 6 miles from my house and work 15 miles in the opposite direction, so if I get low at work it's 20 mile drive to fill up.

Originally Posted by phate The fuel line bozo and I used is L33X-13-49XA. The fuel filter is from an 03-04 SVT Cobra (the supercharged one).

Fucker you type faster then me

[Nataphen]

I ran a can through the tank on the MS6 right after I got it, and did the brake booster method and oil change. I'll probably run a couple more cans through the tank over the next 3-5k miles, then upgrade to the KMDs. I would go ahead on the MS3, but it's my wife's car, so I'll probably just leave it as it is with the bolt-ons and tweaked stock tune. Stock power is fine for her, she doesn't care, LOL.

[rfinkle2]

Ok. I know this is sissy stuff compared to the 100%'rs, but I just filled up with 3 gallons of e85.

My trims are a mess. LOL.

I had to drive a half an hour each way, but don't drive my car much, so I got 10 gallons of reserve (enough for 2 fill ups).

No close e-85 fml.

[Nataphen]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 No close e-85 fml.

I feel ya pain, sir.

[Ranyard]

Originally Posted by Nataphen Catch me up on this Sea Foam prep thing. Are you just adding a can to your gas tank every so often to keep things cleaned out? I've been doing that, but just not as frequently as every 2k miles. My MS3 would be more of a candidate for the switch I think since I've been up to date on maintenance and Sea Foam treatments since new. My MS6, having 70k miles and not knowing how it's been treated before about 66k miles, has me a little on the leery side. I need more e85 in the area before I consider going 100% really though, the closest station being almost an hour away.

I'm here on this also. so I have 68k on my car, almost totally stock except for MS CAI, do I just dump a bottle in my tank every 2kish miles to get it clean and ready for AP, tip, at internals, and tune next spring?

[mrmonk7663]

I'm glad your trims were messed up too...Not glad for you having to fix it...but when I added 3 gallons and said my trims were out of whack people told me they should be just fine blah blah blah....and yah they werent haha.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Ranyard I'm here on this also. so I have 68k on my car, almost totally stock except for MS CAI, do I just dump a bottle in my tank every 2kish miles to get it clean and ready for AP, tip, at internals, and tune next spring?

I would do it regardless of car and mods, but yes every 2k miles I would fill up and dump a can in. I also put it in my oil about 500-1k miles before changing it. There is also the vacuum lines but I have never done that (I plan on it soon)

[JLee1469]

Just be aware if you will smoke heavily if you put it in the crankcase, at least in my case it did as it thins out the oil... and we know what happens to thin oil in our turbos.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by JLee1469 Just be aware if you will smoke heavily if you put it in the crankcase, at least in my case it did as it thins out the oil... and we know what happens to thin oil in our turbos.

I only ever put a half can or less in the crankcase. I'm gonna get some oil samples turned in this next change to see how things look.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by phate The fuel line bozo and I used is L33X-13-49XA. The fuel filter is from an 03-04 SVT Cobra (the supercharged one).

Yeah, the 80 bucks for a fuel line I'll only use for a short period of time is a bit rich for my blood (tapped out on the internals and tools needed to do the swap). If I'm to do the fuel filter setup, I'll need to wait a while to accumulate fundage.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki Yeah, the 80 bucks for a fuel line I'll only use for a short period of time is a bit rich for my blood (tapped out on the internals and tools needed to do the swap). If I'm to do the fuel filter setup, I'll need to wait a while to accumulate fundage.

Gimme a week let me see what I can do.