E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano anyone know where the thread is with the 3 different 3 bar sensors P/N and associated ATR scalars? IIRC it was started by JumpinJackson and I thought I had it in my tech folder but can't find it.

Stock Fitment 3 Bar Map Sensor Upgrade

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Dano anyone know where the thread is with the 3 different 3 bar sensors P/N and associated ATR scalars? IIRC it was started by JumpinJackson and I thought I had it in my tech folder but can't find it.

FWIW, I'm running 65.78, 1.00, and 5.41 offset for my -845 3-Bar MAP sensor. I had to adjust the offset down from 5.44 to get it to read right with the car off.


Tapadatass

[Dano]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Stock Fitment 3 Bar Map Sensor Upgrade

awesome Finkle!

[bewsted]

Im just using the suggested values by cobb on my 3.5..everything seems to be ok. Maybe its really not though LOL

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by bewsted Im just using the suggested values by cobb on my 3.5..everything seems to be ok. Maybe its really not though LOL

It's linear, so as long as your idle vacuum is good and it's reading ~0 with the engine off you're fine.


Tapadatass

[Todd98SE]

I attached a log of my latest map, its a 20% E85 with 91 octane mix. Targeting 11.6 AFR's and my timing is the same as Evan@Cobb's minus 2 degrees across the board, 19-19.5 psi tapering to 17.5 at redline.

Does anyone know why the throttle closes slightly around 5200rpm? This has only starting happening after I switched to E85. All of my load tables are out of reach so I don't think its load related.

Thanks,

[Dano]

is your LD table neutered? IIRC LD=TPS adjustment and LEC=WGDC adjustment.

even though you say your load tables are out of reach, my first guess is you are now going over a load limit with the E85.

check your load baro/RPM table...that one got me a while back.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Dano is your LD table neutered? IIRC LD=TPS adjustment and LEC=WGDC adjustment. even though you say your load tables are out of reach, my first guess is you are now going over a load limit with the E85. check your load baro/RPM table...that one got me a while back.

Yes, LD is zero'd out as well as LEC. Load baro/RPM was set to 2.8 but just for fun I moved everything load related to 5.0. I'll see if that solves the problem later today.

Can minute amounts of wheelspin cause this? I always forget to turn off DSC.

Thanks,

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE Can minute amounts of wheelspin cause this? I always forget to turn off DSC. Thanks,

absolutely

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by Dano absolutely

That is probably the problem then. Never thought I'd have to worry about 3rd gear wheelspin until I went BT, thank you E85! I'll have to make it a habit to turn off DSC when I start the car until Cobb can find those tables.

Thanks Dano,

[GoSpeed3Go]

im on about page 30 in this thread thanks for all youre efforts all you guys. i filled up today with 3.5 gal e85 to a full tank of 91 octane. i am using a cobb ots stage 91 cai tip tune to work off of. i scaled the maf to add 10 percent more fuel and have leaned out my targeted afr to about 11.8 is that a good way to start? any advice is appreciated.

[phate]

Originally Posted by GoSpeed3Go im on about page 30 in this thread thanks for all youre efforts all you guys. i filled up today with 3.5 gal e85 to a full tank of 91 octane. i am using a cobb ots stage 91 cai tip tune to work off of. i scaled the maf to add 10 percent more fuel and have leaned out my targeted afr to about 11.8 is that a good way to start? any advice is appreciated.

That's a fine way to start. I've done that exact mix on a 2011 and picked up a TON of power over straight 91.

[GoSpeed3Go]

right on man im stoked to try this shit out now that theres some experience with it.

[AzSpeedin]

Originally Posted by bewsted I spent like 2 hours reading the VW forums saying "You can't run it" "Yes you can" "Evo's run it" Those guys aren't trying to hard for having a year on us to have figured things out.

I have to a add to the e85 thread. With mods listed below w/ a maxed out 91 tune I have experienced some unreal butt dyno improvement with only E30. I'm short of saying this was the single biggest improvement in hp/tq, us 91 guys will see a greater improvement. I'm running minus 1-2 degrees off of Evans@cobb tune, with a make of 18 degrees. I do not have a dyno or ap run, as it has been raining in AZ for 2 days. I had to give my to cents, the power is unbelievable and it seems to not drop off to redline although I'm sure it does. Btw my lifts r within 2 and highest knock I've seen was a .7 although that was in the rain. I'll run some logs in the nxt day or so and dial the tune in.
Early 2010
Ap 91 e85 18 degrees
Ets
Obx test
Corksport intake tip
Autotech
Rmm

[bewsted]

Yea.... I stopped running it on my k04 before xmt66 got pro tuned and was running identical timing to his Cobb pro tune. 50/50 rips hard

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by AzSpeedin I have to a add to the e85 thread. With mods listed below w/ a maxed out 91 tune I have experienced some unreal butt dyno improvement with only E30. I'm short of saying this was the single biggest improvement in hp/tq, us 91 guys will see a greater improvement. I'm running minus 1-2 degrees off of Evans@cobb tune, with a make of 18 degrees. I do not have a dyno or ap run, as it has been raining in AZ for 2 days. I had to give my to cents, the power is unbelievable and it seems to not drop off to redline although I'm sure it does. Btw my lifts r within 2 and highest knock I've seen was a .7 although that was in the rain. I'll run some logs in the nxt day or so and dial the tune in. Early 2010 Ap 91 e85 18 degrees Ets Obx test Corksport intake tip Autotech Rmm

You join nator AZ yet?

[GoSpeed3Go]

i plan on going 50 50 once i can get a better feel on how it works with this car. anything a e85 newb should watch for even on a little mix like im running as far as fuel trims or afrs?

[phate]

Originally Posted by GoSpeed3Go i plan on going 50 50 once i can get a better feel on how it works with this car. anything a e85 newb should watch for even on a little mix like im running as far as fuel trims or afrs?

Not really. The tuning strategy is the same as gas. The only "problem": Addiction

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by phate Not really. The tuning strategy is the same as gas. The only "problem": Addiction

I'm not an addicted!!!

[mazdafreak]

I'm addicted!!!!!! Sucks back on 93 for winter....car is so slow

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE That is probably the problem then. Never thought I'd have to worry about 3rd gear wheelspin until I went BT, thank you E85! I'll have to make it a habit to turn off DSC when I start the car until Cobb can find those tables.Thanks Dano,

For the speed6 you can wire DSC so that the default is to have it 'off' when you start the car, and turn it on by hitting the button (reversed from stock). I bet you can do the same w/ the MS3, but I'm sure it's different, and have no idea if there's a how to for it. I dont think that's high on Cobb's list.

[AzSpeedin]

Addicted here, with spare fuel tanks at the ready! Not joined az nator, been here for a while and enjoy being a lurker but I may consider it. Thanks

[GoSpeed3Go]

freekin crazy stft this morning in the cold 16+- at part throttle lol probably notthe best.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by GoSpeed3Go freekin crazy stft this morning in the cold 16+- at part throttle lol probably notthe best.

Doesn't matter - STFTs fluctuate all the time. Don't max out LTFTs and make sure AFRs at WOT are safe instead.

[Enki]

STFT change based on any number of variables, and will generally shift pretty good as the engine comes up to temp.

[GoSpeed3Go]

welp heres my first log on my 3.5 e85 mix pretty happy i hit my fuel targets pretty good and that new pump is working well any tips or advice. felt good but not all that crazy as of yet obviously. gonna 50/50 probably next fill up.

had my buddy with me hitting the buttons on the ap for me while logging hes got a 400hp e85 evo mr. he said i got alot of catching up to do. lol

[mrmonk7663]

You need more boost and much more timing to get the "crazy" out of it.

[GoSpeed3Go]

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 You need more boost and much more timing to get the "crazy" out of it.

yeah im gonna finish reading through this thread tonight on page 32 i think. then ill start turning up some boost and timing very carefully.

[Nataphen]

I'm running leaner, more boost, and more timing on 93 octane than you are there. Put the fire to it, sir. 12.2 AFR, 19-20psi, this timing from 2500-6500 is where you should start:

0.00 7.00 7.00 10.00 10.00 11.50 15.00 17.00 18.80

I ended up here on just 2 gallons of e85.

[mrmonk7663]

I wouldn't ramp timing like that personally. It is better to step it up than command the same values over multiple cells. Makes for a smoother curve and smoother power delivery, and allows you to pinpoint knock points easier. With timing, you go slow. Each car reacts differently.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Nataphen I'm running leaner, more boost, and more timing on 93 octane than you are there. Put the fire to it, sir. 12.2 AFR, 19-20psi, this timing from 2500-6500 is where you should start: 0.00 7.00 7.00 10.00 10.00 11.50 15.00 17.00 18.80 I ended up here on just 2 gallons of e85.

I definitely wouldn't consider that a starter curve.

[Nataphen]

Maybe that's a little ambitious, but he's running more e85 than I was and it's cooler outside now. I'm sure it wouldn't be too far off for a starting point. I would smooth it out more in the end too, but that's just where I ended up when I ran out of that tank of e85, and I still had no KR.

EDIT: Just so that you guys don't think that I'm retarded, here's an actual finished 93 octane tune's timing values from 2500-7000:

-1.00 0.80 3.36 5.40 7.45 9.13 10.55 11.76 12.88 13.99

Very conservative early in the RPMs because I'm still on the stock CDFP, but I do know how to make a smooth curve.

[mrmonk7663]

LOL, that looks a bit better

[Nataphen]

Yeah, I apologize for my momentary lapse of reason. The below values are what phate speculated to be about MBT through his dyno testing. It would probably be a good plan to not exceed these values, even if you still aren't getting KR.

2500-6500
-1 8 10 11.5 13 16.5 19.5 22 24

[phate]

Originally Posted by Nataphen Yeah, I apologize for my momentary lapse of reason. The below values are what phate speculated to be about MBT through his dyno testing. It would probably be a good plan to not exceed these values, even if you still aren't getting KR. 2500-6500 -1 8 10 11.5 13 16.5 19.5 22 24

Yessir. The only other E85 car I had on the dyno had an almost identical timing curve and made pretty much identical power to my car. He got some spark blowout before we reached my timing curve, but I'd bet it would have ended within .5° of it, considering the prior curves and power gains.

Also, the 2500 rpm value on my car is that low only because it is NOISY down there. It would pull kr through half of my rpm range if I went further. Yeah yeah, I could have increased kr offset, but the power down that low is WORTHLESS, so I chose to leave it low right there I'm betting you could get away with better than 6° right there.

[GoSpeed3Go]

Originally Posted by Nataphen Maybe that's a little ambitious, but he's running more e85 than I was and it's cooler outside now. I'm sure it wouldn't be too far off for a starting point. I would smooth it out more in the end too, but that's just where I ended up when I ran out of that tank of e85, and I still had no KR. EDIT: Just so that you guys don't think that I'm retarded, here's an actual finished 93 octane tune's timing values from 2500-7000: -1.00 0.80 3.36 5.40 7.45 9.13 10.55 11.76 12.88 13.99 Very conservative early in the RPMs because I'm still on the stock CDFP, but I do know how to make a smooth curve.

cool man ill give it a try. tommorow.

[Nataphen]

Originally Posted by phate Also, the 2500 rpm value on my car is that low only because it is NOISY down there. It would pull kr through half of my rpm range if I went further. Yeah yeah, I could have increased kr offset, but the power down that low is WORTHLESS, so I chose to leave it low right there I'm betting you could get away with better than 6° right there.

The timing retard helps spool time anyway, even though the curve may not look as pretty. Not that the k04 needs that much help, just saying.

@phate, do you have an MBT number for 7k RPM timing? I know that there's no real reason to rev that high, I'm just curious.

[GoSpeed3Go]

now when im pasting these values in atr i just input them in the lowest table [2.0 load] of the high throttle open loop table knock and no knock?
-1.00 0.80 3.36 5.40 7.45 9.13 10.55 11.76 12.88 13.99

[phate]

Originally Posted by Nataphen @phate, do you have an MBT number for 7k RPM timing? I know that there's no real reason to rev that high, I'm just curious.

I do not. Our K04 dies that high, and I shift at 5800 rpm, so I never took it past 6500ish.

[mazdafreak]

I'm getting bad lubrication to my pump every since 85 swap, but would be fine after priming pump a few times before cold start up.

And now I'm still getting it back on 93....@phate, I haven't cleaned the spill valve, like under it (actually taking the UFO thing off and cleaning underneath it), u think that's causing it??