E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues

[Enki]

Epic first post brah; also $10 says pump full of black death.

[josurr]

Originally Posted by Enki Epic first post brah; also $10 says pump full of black death.

if he doesnt zzb... hes going to "investigate" E85 on stock internals...

[Enki]

I meant he already has a pump full of black death. The E will only fuck his couch.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by josurr if he doesnt zzb... hes going to "investigate" E85 on stock internals...

Is THAT what he said? If so, I already tried it with great fail. The stock HPFP just can't take the extra fuel demands of 100% E85.

[jdeves]

So... on the note of stock internals, are most people just running upgraded kmd/autotech internals? I'm starting to think I'm maxing out my upgraded internals. 4th gear pulls get me up to about 2.7 load and my fuel pressures drop like a rock down to about 1300. What do you guys think?

Tonight was my first runs/logs at that high of load but I'm pretty sure 100% E might be my problem I'll try going back to 50/50 after this tank to see if it helps any. I really don't want to have to buy that crazy $750 PTP stage 2.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by jdeves So... on the note of stock internals, are most people just running upgraded kmd/autotech internals? I'm starting to think I'm maxing out my upgraded internals. 4th gear pulls get me up to about 2.7 load and my fuel pressures drop like a rock down to about 1300. What do you guys think? Tonight was my first runs/logs at that high of load but I'm pretty sure 100% E might be my problem I'll try going back to 50/50 after this tank to see if it helps any. I really don't want to have to buy that crazy $750 PTP stage 2.

100% E on a 3071? I hope you're using a lot of meth; I was running 100% IDC on full E85 with just the K04.

[burn813]

Help the bearded lizard out http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=112757

Hitting all the places @silvapain posts!

[jdeves]

Originally Posted by silvapain 100% E on a 3071? I hope you're using a lot of meth; I was running 100% IDC on full E85 with just the K04.

I'm running low boost and this is my first tank trying it out. Just wanted to see how it would do. After seeing those low ass fuel rail pressures I'll definitely be going back to 50/50.

Is that fifth port project done yet?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by silvapain FYI: Nobody's going to bother reading this shit. Use capitalization, punctuation, and proper spelling.

I skipped it after the first 5 words and then read yours and LOL'd.

[BigjohnB20]

Originally Posted by jdeves I'm running low boost and this is my first tank trying it out. Just wanted to see how it would do. After seeing those low ass fuel rail pressures I'll definitely be going back to 50/50. Is that fifth port project done yet?

Yea, I don't think 100% E85 on a BT car is going to work out for you. Throw some gas in there and bring your versatuner over to the install day tomorrow. I bet we can get you set up nicely on a lower mix like E20-25.

You are the only one of the minnesota guys I have seen talking about running E. That shit is everywhere around here. Two stations within a mile from my house and one within a mile from work. I have run several tanks of a low mix with great results (stock HPFP) until I started to up boost and lose pressure...obviously. I was surprised though I have tons of logs over 2+ months showing solid 1800psi with an E25ish blend.

Should be getting my internals installed tomorrow though so Im back in it if I do!

[zspalm1]

Originally Posted by silvapain FYI: Nobody's going to bother reading this shit. Use capitalization, punctuation, and proper spelling.

Guess i should just use Microsoft Word to learn about Mazda problems.

[m4tic]

Originally Posted by zspalm1 Guess i should just use Microsoft Word to learn about Mazda problems.

See that's better.

But in the spirit of staying on topic; you have a ways to go/learn before trying E85 on a stock car with no tune or logging capability. (unless im mistaken)

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by zspalm1 Guess i should just use Microsoft Word to learn about Mazda problems.

Capitalize the 'I'.

Originally Posted by m4tic See that's better. But in the spirit of staying on topic; you have a ways to go/learn before trying E85 on a stock car with no tune or logging capability. (unless im mistaken)

That's only partially true. Very small Ethanol mixes are common in regular pump gas in many states; for example, all pump gas in IL is E10 by law. But I would not recommend running more than that without a proper tuning and logging solution, and an upgraded HPFP at minimum.

[m4tic]

CA is also 10% ethanol. I agree It's a good idea to be prepared.

[burn813]

Originally Posted by silvapain Capitalize the 'I'. That's only partially true. Very small Ethanol mixes are common in regular pump gas in many states; for example, all pump gas in IL is E10 by law. But I would not recommend running more than that without a proper tuning and logging solution, and an upgraded HPFP at minimum.

That is standard in most states now iirc

[rfinkle2]

Thread resurrection.... Wondering if you guys are seeing a similar trend, and I have a theory on that trend.

I've been getting some KR on my pump gas tune, and many of the maps I'm working on are running less timing with more bouts of KR.

Onto the theory, assuming your state does not require ethanol be blended into your pump gas, what do you guys think of the idea that refineries are using less ethanol in the blends now that oil / barrell is competitive / much less expensive than it was previously.

I noticed for the first time (have been running a pump gas map) that e85 is actually quite a bit more than 93 octane in PA.

@phate, @Bucker, @ atvfreek, @Ziggo, @silvapain, @cld12pk2go, @Lex... picking brains...

[phate]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Thread resurrection.... Wondering if you guys are seeing a similar trend, and I have a theory on that trend. I've been getting some KR on my pump gas tune, and many of the maps I'm working on are running less timing with more bouts of KR. Onto the theory, assuming your state does not require ethanol be blended into your pump gas, what do you guys think of the idea that refineries are using less ethanol in the blends now that oil / barrell is competitive / much less expensive than it was previously. I noticed for the first time (have been running a pump gas map) that e85 is actually quite a bit more than 93 octane in PA.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it cuts into their profit. We require it here in IL, but E85 is still much cheaper than gas

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by phate It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it cuts into their profit. We require it here in IL, but E85 is still much cheaper than gas

In PA / NJ, I have to check again, but I believe they are the very close to the same price.

Back to e85 mixes I go.

[josurr]

e85 is at least 40 cents cheaper than 91 in AZ....

but 91 is also down to 3.45/gal...

[mrmonk7663]

$2.74 for E85, $3.34 for 93 octane...Houston, TX...and that is not cheapest in town.

[Bucker]

e85 is the same as premium here currently. At one point it was $.50 more per gallon than premium. I run a 50/50 e85/87 octane mix though, so I suck it up. @rfinkle2 I don't question your logic one bit. I bet that is the case where 10% ethanol is not mandated.

[cld12pk2go]

$3.09 here...

And the gas blenders will do whatever is legal that maximizes their profits (as they logically should).

Corn prices are starting to shoot the moon due to the drought; some ethanol makers are probably going to start fail if they aren't hedged...

[silvapain]

I have an E85 tester for checking the Erhanol content.

They make kits to test lower concentrations as well:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/

Buy a kit that can test down to the E10-E0 range and see Finkle.


Tapadatass

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by silvapain I have an E85 tester for checking the Erhanol content. They make kits to test lower concentrations as well: Fuel-Testers E10 Gas Precautions & Tips + Ethanol Fuel Test Kits to protect your engines from alcohol-caused damage. Buy a kit that can test down to the E10-E0 range and see Finkle. Tapadatass

Oh how cool. I only wish that I had known about that in the past so I could have tested before and now.

I'm going to have to pick one of those up.

Thanks for the link.

I love gadgets.

[bast525]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Thread resurrection.... Wondering if you guys are seeing a similar trend, and I have a theory on that trend. I've been getting some KR on my pump gas tune, and many of the maps I'm working on are running less timing with more bouts of KR. Onto the theory, assuming your state does not require ethanol be blended into your pump gas, what do you guys think of the idea that refineries are using less ethanol in the blends now that oil / barrell is competitive / much less expensive than it was previously.

Maybe a bit late but I too noticed that starting this summer I started getting KR running the same map I was running last summer without issue, and had to back off 2* of timing and richen fuel to get rid of it. I thought maybe it was bad gas but it persisted multiple tanks. Couple guys suggested not to use Shell anymore so I tried BP and got the same results. It got me wondering if it was a mechanical issue with my car like carbon buildup, but I run deep creep (seafoam aerosol) through the intake prior to every oil change, and when I removed the plugs and looked into the cylinder with a flashlight, what I could see didn't look too bad. Which left me thinking that lower fuel 'quality' could be the culprit... I never thought of the E% though... the pumps at Shell all say "contains 10% ethanol", not "up to" 10%, just "contains 10%".

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by bast525 Maybe a bit late but I too noticed that starting this summer I started getting KR running the same map I was running last summer without issue, and had to back off 2* of timing and richen fuel to get rid of it. I thought maybe it was bad gas but it persisted multiple tanks. Couple guys suggested not to use Shell anymore so I tried BP and got the same results. It got me wondering if it was a mechanical issue with my car like carbon buildup, but I run deep creep (seafoam aerosol) through the intake prior to every oil change, and when I removed the plugs and looked into the cylinder with a flashlight, what I could see didn't look too bad. Which left me thinking that lower fuel 'quality' could be the culprit... I never thought of the E% though... the pumps at Shell all say "contains 10% ethanol", not "up to" 10%, just "contains 10%".

Could be valve seals too.

Running seafoam certainly cannot hurt, but has almost no effect on cleaning the valves (as was thought in the past).

The residue on our valves needs to be manually removed.

[RichieRichness]

Originally Posted by bast525 Maybe a bit late but I too noticed that starting this summer I started getting KR running the same map I was running last summer without issue, and had to back off 2* of timing and richen fuel to get rid of it. I thought maybe it was bad gas but it persisted multiple tanks. Couple guys suggested not to use Shell anymore so I tried BP and got the same results. It got me wondering if it was a mechanical issue with my car like carbon buildup, but I run deep creep (seafoam aerosol) through the intake prior to every oil change, and when I removed the plugs and looked into the cylinder with a flashlight, what I could see didn't look too bad. Which left me thinking that lower fuel 'quality' could be the culprit... I never thought of the E% though... the pumps at Shell all say "contains 10% ethanol", not "up to" 10%, just "contains 10%".

You may have developed a slight boost leak or your plugs may need to be re-gapped. These are two things you should check before adjusting your tune further.

[bast525]

Originally Posted by RichieRichness You may have developed a slight boost leak or your plugs may need to be re-gapped. These are two things you should check before adjusting your tune further.

yep, I did all the usual trouble shooting. Removed TMIC, regapped plugs, checked and tightened all hose clamps (none were loose). Switched to one step colder plugs. LTFT's have not changed, boost is fine and WGDC is consistent with logs taken last year in the same weather. AFR's were spot on target. There was really no indication of a leak.

At any rate, going back to the OTC timing and fuel values cured the KR. Now I'm on 25% ethanol and have moved timing back up to where it was and leaned fuel back to where it was and no KR.

[Enki]

Should probably make a dedicated thread on it.

[bast525]

Originally Posted by Enki Should probably make a dedicated thread on it.

yep, already had. only replied here because I saw a post describing the same kind of thing happening to several other people, getting KR at more conservative timing where before mire agressive timing had no problems. I already took care of my KR thanks to the tips given in my thread...

[Downmented]

Originally Posted by RichieRichness You may have developed a slight boost leak or your plugs may need to be re-gapped. These are two things you should check before adjusting your tune further.

Since when did you become a fucking vendor? Wtf do you sell? Cockmeatsanwiches?

[Dano]

yeah...WTF everyone is a vendor now...even @Bucker right?

@Haltech is letting anyone with monies be a vendor it seems...maybe WWpearl is right.
























KIDDING!

edit: WTF @Boost_creep

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Dano yeah...WTF everyone is a vendor now...even @Bucker right? @Haltech is letting anyone with monies be a vendor it seems...maybe WWpearl is right. KIDDING! edit: WTF @Boost_creep

Lol...

@Boost_creep is with me

[Dano]

haha

there goes the neighborhood.

[Boost_creep]

[TiGraySpeed6]

Damn, finally finished this thing...
Epic thread, was great to watch the progression

[Twinturbo6]

Damn thats a lot of reading...

[Downmented]

Originally Posted by Twinturbo6 Damn thats a lot of reading...

PUNISHER??? IS THAT YOU??? LOL

[lito37]

Has any one look in to the fuel pump for the 2012 ford focus flex fuel DI. It look like the little bro of are 2.3


Green Car Congress: Ford Applying 2.0L Flex-Fuel Capable Direct Injection Ti-VCT Engine in 2012 Focus

Can any one recherche the pump?

Went to ford today and the focus flex fuel pump is 2 bolts across, the Mazda and Vw are 3 bolts.

Still looking if the base can be change!!!

[lito37]

I being running 4gl 93 to 5.5gl e85 for 2 month now with no problem. I'm getting 24 to 27 mpg with cobb spice tune +5 lambda and 26 to 29mpg with 93 tune +10 Lambda. Base line Mpg 31.9 on 93. I was planing to run for 3 month but went for a ride with my wife yesterday and 280 miles later need to put gas and there were no e85 close to were I was at, so i fill up with 93. I will give it and other 3 month and i will take apart my full pump and post some pics.

mods: bsd, cork sport cai, vtcs delete, egr delete, cats delete, pcv disconnected from intake manifold and Y of the turbo intake side with catch can.