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-   MazdaSpeed 3/6 - E85 Fueling (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f567/)
-   -   E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f567/e85-remedy-hpfp-hardware-modifications-164812/)

g00s3y 06-08-2015 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2894352)
Was it idling at 400? If so, and it rose to 600 before starting to drop off, your PRV is probably just fine.
Yeah, idle is fine, have it idling at 500psi for e85 if I remember correctly. Turned if off, then key on, went to ~594 I think, then dropped 3psi every 3-4 seconds I would say.

littleloogy 06-08-2015 12:13 PM
When hot It should go all the way to at least 1800 before you should see pressure dropping. When pressure stops climbing and decreases that would be the opening of the RV. If it's opening at 594... That not good.




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Enki 06-08-2015 01:03 PM
Not if it drops at the same rate it climbed at. Pretty sure mine does the same thing when it's cool out, and I have a stock HPRV.

g00s3y 06-08-2015 05:53 PM
My gut feeling is that everything is working ok. Might not be at peak efficiency, but still working. I feel if it wasn't good, I would have other problems popping up also. Any other way to really check the valve? I don't care if I have to pull it to do so, saw the how-to, doesn't seem hard at all.

Enki 06-08-2015 06:22 PM
Pulling the valve is a huge pain in the ass. You'll know if the valve is failing by how fast the pressure drops and if you can hold pressure up top.

Blip the throttle and shut down the moment you do; KOEO and see what pressure does.

littleloogy 06-08-2015 06:48 PM
His logs show pressure dipping in the 1500's under WOT.


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g00s3y 06-09-2015 03:58 AM
Now, I look at the logs, in the upper RPM's it seems the pressure is "decent", it's between 3k-5k I feel that it struggles and where the most low 1600/high 1500 cells are. I also thought that it was just because of running full e, and everything working "harder", was a reason for seeing some lower pressure cells.

Completely forgot to check the pressure again this morning, when I leave work I'll do it.

MSP6 06-09-2015 07:07 AM
FWIW I had to bump a few cells up by 100psi or so when I made the jump from 50/50 to full. Might just be a volume thing but you've gone from full to 93 to 50/50 etc before so idk..

g00s3y 06-09-2015 07:14 AM
Ok, so, first time. This was after a couple WOT pulls. Tapped throttle, turned off, key on, car started back up.....

Did the same, turned it off again, key on. Showed 893 psi and slowly rose 3-5 psi every 5 seconds for the next minute that I watched it.

Cruised the rest of the way home, pulled in, tapped throttle, car off, key on. Showed 1203 psi, and slowly dropped 3-5 psi every 2-3 seconds for the next minute that I watched it, seemed to slow down slightly the longer I sat there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP6 (Post 2895624)
FWIW I had to bump a few cells up by 100psi or so when I made the jump from 50/50 to full. Might just be a volume thing but you've gone from full to 93 to 50/50 etc before so idk..
I bumped it up to 1800psi max, instead of the 1750 on e85 before. Honestly don't remember if it made a difference or not. I see I kept it at 1750 in my current tune. I may try 1800 if I find out everything is fine, and it's not something else possibly causing this problem.

Enki 06-09-2015 10:38 AM
If the PRV was opening, it would be an immediate and RAPID drop in pressure. I think you're fine in that department. Sounds like either the spill valve or internals might have a bit of sticky on them or the internals might be scored (like mine were when I had a similar issue).

I'd start with squirting some redline in through the spill valve cavity and see if that helps; don't forget to remove any excess fuel too.

g00s3y 06-09-2015 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2895782)
If the PRV was opening, it would be an immediate and RAPID drop in pressure. I think you're fine in that department. Sounds like either the spill valve or internals might have a bit of sticky on them or the internals might be scored (like mine were when I had a similar issue).

I'd start with squirting some redline in through the spill valve cavity and see if that helps; don't forget to remove any excess fuel too.
I actually did that when I opened the spill valve the first time. I believe it's the internals with some sticky on them, still from the rotella left over (only done 2 oil changes since going full corn). When I first start in the morning it starts how it did after the first change to corn, another reason I think it's some sticky icky icky. So going to be pulling the pump sometime this week and giving the whole thing another thorough cleaning with si-1.

And if the internals are messed up, I may just pull the trigger on those IE internals and then hopefully not have to worry about the pump/internals anymore.

littleloogy 06-11-2015 02:05 PM
E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleloogy (Post 2896830)
@Raider; My apologies. for some reason I thought this was the "So About The New CS turbo Thread" and was not my intent to derail. but just for fun here is a log I took on my way home. Attachment 203042

https://vimeo.com/130389330




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich990 (Post 2897322)
Seems to be a jump in IDC as your vvt goes down to 0 as well.

And my pulse with drops with the increased IDC. (Sorry I moved this over to here so we don't cloud someone else's Review with this play talk. )


In your opinion do you think that retarding the intake advance back to 0 yields less of a fueling window? Like the injection point changes as you increase or decrease advancement? Also, any harm in running VVT advance to redline for testing? I am half temped to advance my intake to 10 degrees to redline and see if that help fueling.


Sent from my iPhone 6

phate 06-11-2015 02:43 PM
It's been an issue for quite a while. Holding vvt just above 0 prevents it. Something to do with behind the scenes things we don't have access to that happened a couple of atr released ago.

littleloogy 06-11-2015 02:50 PM
I would have to say that is very weird. Thanks for chiming in master @phate; I guess I'll shoot for 3 degree of advance on my next revision and see where that takes me.


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g00s3y 06-11-2015 03:46 PM
Well, that makes sense why close to 5k I sometimes get a jump from ~75 IDC to ~95 IDC out of nowhere. I may have to try this also, extra fueling headroom is never a bad thing.

g00s3y 06-12-2015 08:48 AM
1 Attachment(s)
So, i'm going to try and run this, only changed what is red, was at 0 before. I'm thinking it should be safe, can't imagine this blowing anything up. But if it does, I guess I have a damn good reason to build my motor finally.

In my current logs, on my latest revision, I'm just barely going above 100 IDC. Not getting any stumbling, which is good. Last VD log had me at 310/345. Getting back up there on full e, very happy. Not to mention, the price of 93 is now at least $1.10 higher than e85 ($1.99) around here now. I'm done rambling with this statement full of randomness now. Time to go clean my HPFP.

g00s3y 06-13-2015 01:17 PM
5 Attachment(s)
So, pulled my pump. More oil in the housing than I think there should be. Other than that, everything was fine, just the same light dusting that was on the spill valve, were on parts of the internals. Cleaned everything up with SI-1. But this amount of oil, eh...

MSP611 06-13-2015 02:07 PM
so no solid fix for this yet?? still seems people are getting the sticky and black death

cocoanton 06-14-2015 05:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP611 (Post 2898534)
so no solid fix for this yet?? still seems people are getting the sticky and black death

Do you even read?

MSP611 06-14-2015 08:05 AM
Yup and atleast to Wat I read it still seems he couldn't solve the problem. Only thing I've read (not on this thread) were a diff type of internals with a nitride coating Tht stops the build-up. Company out of salt lake city... They are made for 2.0t pumps... Also has a certain type of gasket to keep the oil from reaching the spill valve and internals.

littleloogy 06-14-2015 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP611 (Post 2898804)
Yup and atleast to Wat I read it still seems he couldn't solve the problem.

Fuck off.


Sent from my iPhone 6

udntknw 06-14-2015 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP611 (Post 2898804)
Yup and atleast to Wat I read it still seems he couldn't solve the problem. Only thing I've read (not on this thread) were a diff type of internals with a nitride coating Tht stops the build-up. Company out of salt lake city... They are made for 2.0t pumps... Also has a certain type of gasket to keep the oil from reaching the spill valve and internals.
Stop reading the other threads and read this one in it's entirety to understand what's actually going on.

This thread includes the best solution for running FULL E85, not a mix. However, you can run high concentrates of a mix and experience the problem if not using the method laid out here.

At this time there is no hardware fix for us. But the additive in the spill valve is the next best thing.

g00s3y 06-14-2015 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP611 (Post 2898804)
Yup and atleast to Wat I read it still seems he couldn't solve the problem. Only thing I've read (not on this thread) were a diff type of internals with a nitride coating Tht stops the build-up. Company out of salt lake city... They are made for 2.0t pumps... Also has a certain type of gasket to keep the oil from reaching the spill valve and internals.
Guess you can't read very well. SI-1, has worked for everyone who has done it so far, provided they lubed up the pump assembly correctly. I've had over 7,000 miles combined now on full corn, and no black/sticky death problems, or of any type that is related to e85 use.

It seems you were able to read well enough to tell us what we already knew about the IE HPFP internals, you can thank @littleloogy; for testing those for us.

Enki 06-14-2015 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by udntknw (Post 2898864)
At this time there is no *confirmed* hardware fix for us. But the additive in the spill valve is the next best thing.
Fixed for you.

cocoanton 06-14-2015 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP611 (Post 2898804)
Yup and atleast to Wat I read it still seems he couldn't solve the problem. Only thing I've read (not on this thread) were a diff type of internals with a nitride coating Tht stops the build-up. Company out of salt lake city... They are made for 2.0t pumps... Also has a certain type of gasket to keep the oil from reaching the spill valve and internals.

In all seriousness, you make me want to stab myself in the eye. Repeatdly... Again... And again... Forever

MSP611 06-14-2015 10:08 PM
Wow... Sry didn't read all the way through... Just saw the mods on the pump Tht were being tryed to no real avail. I saw the part about sl-1 just didn't put 2 and 2 together...

g00s3y 06-15-2015 04:28 AM
Yeah, I guess the sticky at the top of the sub-forum saying:

Full E85 Redline S-1 Cure steps/results.

is a bit hard to understand.

MSP611 06-15-2015 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00s3y (Post 2899249)
Yeah, I guess the sticky at the top of the sub-forum saying:

Full E85 Redline S-1 Cure steps/results.

is a bit hard to understand.
I'm reading this on my phone on tapatalk couldn't see Tht. I just saw this thread didn't see the sticky with the s-1 cure sorry..

MSP6 06-15-2015 05:27 AM
Full E85 for 10k+ miles straight, including 1000 mile round trip work-cation to VA beach.

Because S-1.

If @littleloogy; gets to a point where these internals are a 100% confirm, then we'll have 2 options really. Those that have yet to purchase internals can go with these and those that already have AT's or the like can go S1 l00b.

MSP611 06-15-2015 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP6 (Post 2899259)
Full E85 for 10k+ miles straight, including 1000 mile round trip work-cation to VA beach.

Because S-1.

If @littleloogy; gets to a point where these internals are a 100% confirm, then we'll have 2 options really. Those that have yet to purchase internals can go with these and those that already have AT's or the like can go S1 l00b.
Nice!!! Keep it goin

Enki 06-15-2015 11:13 AM
My personal confidence in the Redline fix is near 100%. It's honestly not even an afterthought for me anymore.

Shit just works.

Sandman978 06-15-2015 11:21 AM
All brought to you by a guy named loogy and his band of merry men ink goos and fat... We still eagerly await the report on the van shaft follower wear pattern and any other observations.

Fapped over pics of Laguna Seca

Dano 06-15-2015 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2899480)
My personal confidence in the Redline fix is near 100%. It's honestly not even an afterthought for me anymore.

Shit just works.
You say Redline but do you mean Redline + Royal Purple Dexos = solution ? Or did I miss something about the oil no longer being a factor?

littleloogy 06-15-2015 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano (Post 2899622)
You say Redline but do you mean Redline + Royal Purple Dexos = solution ? Or did I miss something about the oil no longer being a factor?

I believe it's only with Royal Purple, unless someone is running a different oil that I don't know about. I did try to run regular Royal Purple synthetic on accident, (grabbed the wrong bottle) and I started getting death in my pump pretty quickly.


Sent from my iPhone 6

Enki 06-15-2015 08:07 PM
Considering the UOAs I get, I'll probably only run RP oil from here on out (at least in the Mazda).

Rich990 06-16-2015 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00s3y (Post 2897772)
So, i'm going to try and run this, only changed what is red, was at 0 before. I'm thinking it should be safe, can't imagine this blowing anything up. But if it does, I guess I have a damn good reason to build my motor finally.

In my current logs, on my latest revision, I'm just barely going above 100 IDC. Not getting any stumbling, which is good. Last VD log had me at 310/345. Getting back up there on full e, very happy. Not to mention, the price of 93 is now at least $1.10 higher than e85 ($1.99) around here now. I'm done rambling with this statement full of randomness now. Time to go clean my HPFP.
How did the IDC look with a bit of VVT advance up top?

g00s3y 06-17-2015 05:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich990 (Post 2900461)
How did the IDC look with a bit of VVT advance up top?
I was hitting around 105 IDC around 5500, I have 3* at 5/5.5/6k (past 5700rpm, logs are actually showing 0), and am now just hovering around 100-101 at max.

CorkSport Vincent 06-22-2015 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleloogy (Post 2466608)
At about 480 miles black death accrued, I struggled for nearly 20 miles to maintain pressure. I could hear my cam follower clashing against the piston in the pump, finally got in my garage and parked it. Woke up early Saturday morning and pulled the pump. The piston was literally seized, separating the plunger was not easy.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/epypageh.jpg

I cleaned the internals with kerosene, and reinstalled the pump. I have had 550 some odd miles on the modified top needle valve without it needing cleaning.
I have confirmed that with the oil I am running, I can go about 50 miles before black death starts to develop in my pump. I am using this as my base to see if modifications are working or not. I am placing another parts order. My current goal now is to attempt to lower the HPFP temps, to keep the fuel from boiling in the first place. I will do some testing throughout the week and post up progress.
So not to bring up an old thread but have you ever been able to determine what caused this to happen on your sleeve and piston? I am just curios if this has something to do more with the type of fuel and or oil being used or something is getting to hot, etc...? Just seems like no solid answer is there but I would like to hear the opinions of others.

Enki 06-22-2015 01:45 PM
The deaths are entirely oil related, and have little to do with the fuel being used (worst pump I've ever seen was running pumpgas, stock internals and completely seized).

littleloogy 06-22-2015 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enki (Post 2869757)
So there's a bit of time that needs to pass before this can be signed off as 100% fixed then...? Or did you already do this weeks ago?

FYI. Almost 2 month full E and no problems with the modded fuel level sender. Still reads with perfect accuracy.




Sent from my iPhone 6


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