Finally arrived. Got it installed, thanks again. Now I can move on to my next project?


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In.

Anyone have a head laying around that I can borrow/buy? I need to start making an adapter piece to house these injectors that I am playing with.


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I have a trash head, complete with stock exhaust location jig and flanges.

Can I borrow it or you can sell it to me:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=193691

I would really appreciate it. As long as the Injector slots are undamaged it will work well. Might use the head to make a few molds too. I love playing with clay.


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I'll check. I also have the housing that bolts to the head and the HPFP, which you can have if you get me some angle measurements off it.

That would be beneficial. I have been wanting to play with a more moderns HPFP options as well.


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Here's something to think about:

It looks to me like the HPFP cam lobe area is drowning in oil, and there might be a way to drain it back to the pan easily...Chew on these pictures for a bit:

Something like our turbo drain tube?


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Wouldn't that be how they keep the cam lubricated?

Yeah, looks like Mazda had that idea too but decided to not go with it for whatever reason. Seeing as how oil very likely squirts all over the cam lobe and shit, I might do something with that on my build.

Actually it looks like it has direct oiling (green areas). There's a passage that goes from the head to the hpfp mount and looks like it would spray directly on the cam lobes.

If that's the case then a drain would not affect the protection factor. I would be concerned with it being designed to have the lobs splash the oil around.


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Drain probably won't affect the protection factor, but it also won't force oil up into the internals either...which it shouldn't have anyways since theres several layers of scraping going on as it is.

Hold the rotary phone. Am I looking at this correctly? Is there no drain at all? The oil gets pumped through the block into the little spout and then just splashes around in the lobe area. Then the engine turns off and the oil just sits up in there without falling back to the pan? Or does the oil travel back following the cam?
Also, it is possible that the design is there to ensure oil is present at every cold start?


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Your assessment is the same as mine; not sure how important cold start oil is when crank bearings don't get it.

Must find the patent info and see why they put it in there.


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if you were that worried about cold starts...oil accumulator FTW. My machinist's has one on his race car and zero bearing wear after a season or two, not so much as a scuff. he even has an external connection for an air compressor and fill location for new motor cold starts. He was an engineer for Raytheon, so prone to over engineering lol

For those who don't know what it is, its a pressure vessel in-line with the oil system. So it sees the pressure/oil the motor sees while running. Right when you shut the car off you close the inlet valve. this pressurizes the chamber so you have 1/2 qt or so (dealers choice depending on size of the vessel) of 30-60 PSI oil "accumulated" waiting for you. Before you start the car you open the outlet valve and pressurize the entire oiling system of the motor. zero dry starts.

A relay and a couple of solenoids should make it automatic, triggered off the ACC and Off key position.

might need to tweak it a bit with a relieve bypass valve so as not to over pressurize it but you get the jist.

over engineering for sure but WTF else do we do here?

Nothing like blowing your load the moment you turn her on eh? Lol that's actually pretty cool idea.


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haha overkill but yes. for when you run out of things to do.

p.s. don't try and use an OCC. don't think they would do very well at 60PSI. Remember the CS "glued together" OCC failures ? :)

disclaimer: even a welded together OCC will likely fail. its called a pressure vessel for a reason.

Bicker like schoolgirls and post cat gifs.

rhetorical question but..

touche'

Luckily, I don't think this thread has had any cats...


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I'll be doing this on my true racecar build, automated of course (cause lazy). Not on the Mazda though, bit of a pain in the ass getting it set up right for that unless extra holes drilled and tapped into the filter housing or plate or whatever. Falcon will be dry sump though, so no worries there.

Im also curious about what draining the fp housing will do. That plug makes me curious like it was designed for the drain and changed after production maybe? If you do it, im interested if the lobe sees increased wear.

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I think what you are saying is oil feed, i think is oil drain. There is a little hole in the cam cap that is tied to bearing oil feed. So it looks like its designed to fill with oil and drain out that top hole, through the housing and out that bigger hole in the head. If you look at that hole in the head closely youll see what im talking about
Attachment 213208http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...d1db2d17c0.jpg


sorry for my shitty pictures, i can get better ones if you need

Patent info doesn't include housing IIRC. Unless there's a separate patent.

Patent US20030017069 - High pressure fuel pump for internal combustion engine - Google Patents

Thanks, I have that document already, I was looking for the engine docs


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I am not sure what is being discussed here at this point, last I checked things were being modified in the pump to help keep it clean now you guys are talking about draining oil.

Me personally do not believe I would modify anything to do with the oil system for the pump as noone has ever had issues with the stock setup and Mazda engineers know a fuck of allot more than we ever will.

With that said I cant read through all this banter, were there any conclusions made on your physical modifications, last I had seen you were doing many things and tearing the pump down almost daily.

E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications
 

So, what your saying is you want more fuel pump mods that no one will ever use? I almost blew @Enki;'/s fuel rail with some of these mods... We all figured out a better way to run 100%E without fucking with the fuel pump. This thread is now about Waco ideas that will benefit our platform. But we do have something fuel related in the works... But for now, oil drain and why that's there is a head scratcher...


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No that's not what I said. You basically answered my question, which is where are we on this project and you just said basically fuel pump mods have been abandoned and you have another solution? I was trying to catch up from where I left off, but there is allot of random talking going on(hence oil drain).

Please link me to the other solution.

if you guys read the FSM you will find that drain is there to use before removing the pump housing, drain it before removal to reduce the mess; however, I have never removed my plug and I just let the oil drop into paper towels and such.

In the FSM you will find this in the pump housing removal steps.

EDIT: I rather clean up the mess instead of dealing with a potential leaking plug after removal

Buzz kill.


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the solution is to use Royal Purple DEXOS oil and Redline Si-1 in the pump. Although with IE internals I think the Si-1 is not necessary. loogy's testing is ongoing IIRC.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-steps-186427/

thanks Dano =) how you been man ?

doin good, nothing exciting going on.

Maybe you can teach us something about phantom ghost in our engine bay... You ever find it? D?


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I don't even want to answer that...

If it makes you feel any better I have started getting some random knock, bad thing is I'm still running lots of E [emoji45]

I first noticed it a few months ago. I was seeing less then 2 KR. Now it is in the 6's. It's so random, I have not been able to catch it on the data log yet.


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Umm. That would be a zoom zoom boom son.

I was thinking that at first as well. But now I am leaning towards a VVT failure. I tried zeroing out the table thinking my VTT could be causing the noise. But I still get 10 degrees of registered advancement. I assume something loose?

I am all game for a build, but I need to ask for educational reasons. If this was a ZZB What would cause a such a random knock? I am talking about one episode during a 2 hr drive... I assumed a engine on its way out would knock more frequently.


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Cracked ringland could do any number of weird things.

I would stop expecting the worst and check small stuff first. My intercooler shroud was causing me random kr up to about 3.5*

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Either way, it's been a few years since I have done any leak down/compression tests. Should do one anyway. Who knows, maybe 30,000 miles on E has finally taken its toll.


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That's likely something external causing the registered knock. You can run a leak test to confirm good rings and lands.

Tappin

Went over my engine bay, possible mount issue again. Thinking about getting new Passenger, Transmission, and Rear motor mounts. . Tired of this shit. https://vimeo.com/141552054


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Nice, thatll do it. Bet you were happy to see that.

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Get the DM mounts, 100% worth it in every way.

Can't be QFT enough.

wat mounts do u have?

Looks like Corksport rear at the least. I'd get that thing warrantied.

That rear mount itself doesn't really appear to have a problem. If anything, it looks like it's the eye bushing in the OEM aluminum bracket that is allowing movement/noise (in the video, at least)... :dunno:

Well here is a close up of the mount torqued to max CS spec of 66lb/lbs. yuck...
https://vimeo.com/141626492

Looks to me that running the stock TMM for as long as I did cause lateral pressure which has been wearing out the sides of the mount. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...a6426da89a.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...5dc3ff0193.jpg
So I searched my tool box, junk box, and garage floor for something the use as a shim. I ended up using a few spark plug indexing shims and a thing-a-am-jig. All better.
https://vimeo.com/141626858


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Finally got some head... http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...9674e90bec.jpg

mmmmm head lol:naughty:

Little teaser...progress is my middle name. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...ed66c5aa02.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...bb4081be4e.jpg

Needs own thread.

linky here.

Shhh, it's a secret that only the cool kids can know about. But between you and me, fits like a glove.

what size injector?

It is unknown. 550bhp worth. What is the max our injectors will do?

550 times how many? And on what fuel?

I've found ancient threads that suggest ours are 1700 CC.

4. Petrol.

1700cc at what PSI? I have seen threads like that as well. The problem that I have is where did the information come from? Did they take a 5 BAR standard flow test and then multiply that number to get the CC? Because if they did then the numbers are not correct.

i wonder if these would work... fuckin mustangs gettin all the shit.

DeatschWerks 1700cc Fuel Injectors 2015 Mustang Ecoboost Set of 4

Oh baby. Go to fine me a OEM one for possible fitment.

ill have my boys at ford keep a look out if they get a broken one and ill have em send it ur way... doubt they will get on tho, cuz i dont think theyd be failin already...

What kind of power are those mustangs putting out anyway?

stock?? or modded?

Modded of course. I wonder if anyone has taxed their fuel system yet.

uhhh i know there is a couple big turbo ones pushin 500hp on stock blocks... im pretty sure tht was stock fuel system but not 100%

Good to know. These look like the HDEV 5.2. I'll order one and see if it will somewhat fit out head.

ur gunna order a stock one or the new deatchwerks one?

Dustin Jones, gearhead. Not sure what method he used, but I'm sure it factored in full spray window (without factoring timing).

Looking forward to seeing the results...thanks for your work here. ;)

Gearheads... What do they know? No offense.

He's the guy that drove around with a full size O-Scope on his dashboard and a trunk of wiring going to under his hood for measuring injector PW and shit like that.

Fuel system on ecoboost mustang supports 500whp on pump gas, just fyi. Excited that you are working on this, i have a million diesel shops around me and ive been looking for some used injectors to see what they flow and if anything can be done to improve them. Im getting tired of running out of fuel at 20psi on the cs turbo on e30.

PS Mountune makes bigger DI injectors for the 2.3 EB

The injectors and head design are completely different tho
Even looks like the bucket they use for the cdfp has a roller on it, interesting that this design hasnt come out sooner with all the problems vw had with cam follower wear

EB market >>>> MZR DISI (MZR DISI is dead after all)

jussayin.

retrofit is our only hope

Amen. That's what this is all about...

Power output can very alot between cars. Variables like perfectly seating rings, CC venting, fuel quality, timing used and amount of exhaust backpressure (to mention a few) dictates what power that specific engine makes. And IDC can be taken well beyond 130% on some cars where they cause fuel cut very quickly on others when exceeding 100%.


My car made 360-380awhp from 5400 to 6500 rpm on 25% E85 and stock fueling system (VD numbers though but they are quite accurate) at 11 AFR. This equals 450-475bhp on 20% drivetrain loss. Probably close to maxing the injectors out but it ran quite well, no fuel cuts.

So 550bhp is almost 100bhp more

I assume the statement was more along the lines of how much fuel can it flow, how much potential energy is stored in this amount of fuel and how much power could that be? Hell just a degree of timing could be 15+ Hp on some setups
@littleloogy; did you mean 550 each or for four?

Mountune doesn't make injectors. They just rebrand other ford injectors from a Jaguar I believe.

I wish. 550/4

They kinda look like VAG/TSI injectors. It looks like you bored out the injector bore to make it fit.

what do any of the last two dozen posts have to do with the HPFP.

see why we need a new thread loogy? :)

doo eeeet already. We'll get Raider to clean it up.

Exactly! And I would think that when they state "550bhp capable", that would be on a more normal setup, with "normal" timing and boost. What we do to our cars is optimizing it as much as possible. So if timing on a normal setup is 10*, then we could gain ALOT by bringing it up to ~18*. So possibly 600+? *dreaming a little* :)

So long as our ECU can drive them, I'm willing to test bigger injectors on full corn....Kind of in a good spot to do it anyways.

Wheel or crank?

Bhp.

So probably close to what we have already.

Have you ever seen a stock fueling mazdaspeed with 495whp / 440awhp? Me neither

He said 550 brake; you mean to tell me that our drivetrain loss is around 10%?

I'm here to tell you I'm excited about possible injectors. Been lurking on all your threads for awhile. I knew there was a reason why.

More like 460 on a 3 which is probably around an 80-100 Hp increase over stock. More importantly it would be enough to cover 95% of builds.


Edit: all of the above is ricer math I pulled out of my ass.

Read my post again

550 * 0,9 = 495
550 * 0,8 = 440

whp = two wheel drive = ms3
awhp = four wheel drive = ms6

Yeah, you're saying that MS3 drivetrain loss is only 10%? Always thought it was a bit higher.

Here in Australia we've seen stock 3's dyno 150-155kw stock (190kw crank) which is about 15% loss...

6's usual around 130kw (low 20's loss)

Standerd internet drivetrain losses are

15% fwd
20% rwd
20-25% awd

Stock ms3 s dyno 220-230 so right at 15%

Yeah that's what I was thinking too; 15% seems more reasonable.

That would put 400 WHP cars at about 470 crank...So 550 BHP injectors are about 17% larger, and would see 60-65 WHP gain (roughly)....Or close to 350 WHP on full E85 (assuming 300 WHP is all that can be attained; I forget exactly how much I was able to make).

One other thing that needs to be considered is spray pattern and piston top design to match. I'd assume that the Ford injectors would have a superior spray pattern, but I'm not sure.

It's definitely higher than 10%.
This is a heavy duty tranny. All you need to do is listen to it to know that. I wouldn't doubt it's closer to 20% on the 3.