I think it's cool that everyone is pitching in with ideas to solve the problem but if y'all read y'all will see that the problem is not the type/kind of oil, but the flawed HPFP. Which by the way, how is the inspection of the Chevy pump going guys? Any updates?


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@agr964; and I are brainstorming idea's. We are hoping to make either a direct bolt on replacement spill valve system or a way to mod it. We have a few concepts however, they are too premature to talk about at this time. We are working on it

Edit: our goal is to make the pump able to run 100% E85 without needing to clean the pump/spill valve.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

Where did I say anything about the oil fixing anything? I understand the pump itself is the issue, but @Enki; has tested quite a few different oils, some work better than others with E. I just wanted to see if he had tested that oil and whether it caused more or less issues with ethanol mixes. That is all.

Pretty much any oil works with mixes up to 50/50 guys. In fact, after this next oil change (which will be RP), I'll be going back to Rotella T6.

As for a pump mod that will resolve both deaths, we should be looking at something similar to what the Cobalts use that would completely prevent oil from entering the pump, not just the spill valve (which would be impossible anyways).

Is it possible to even get the pump modded in a way to do so? Meaning cost wise?


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I don't see why a retaining nut couldn't be milled that would accomplish what we need, and it should be able to feasibly copy the Cobalt model.

Enki do you think it's possible we could get some developer here? For example, people from corksport, Streetunit, or CP-e. Maybe we could convince them to make it so we could buy it.


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It's probably unlikely, because the number of people who need/want to run 100% E85 is a small portion of the market. You will become injector limited much more quickly, so without aux fueling, it's not going to get you much vs running a 50/50 or lower mix.

Full corn is for people with either stock turbo or massive aux fueling (I ran out of fuel BT @ 10 PSI on full E85). The cost to design and produce the retaining nut in small batches isn't worth the meager return it would see for such a precision part (which, if even a little off, could destroy the engine, cams, vvt, etc).

We basically need a member with the software and engineering expertise to do the brain work, and another with a mill and some scraps to make a couple test setups to be delivered at cost of materials (time can be donated).

I really wish it would happen, but I don't realistically see it happening *soon.*

The reason I bring up the spill valve is that I believe that the sticky substance is in the fuel itself. (Gummy substance on SV)
I took a sample of E and let it dry in a bowl. The residue that was left in the bowl was sticky, just like what I found on my SV.

So regardless of if we cure black death or not, it is my belief that our Spill valves may still stick. Which still does not allow us to succeed in our ultimate goal. I could be wrong, but I still want to think about this as a two part problem until proven otherwise.


Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

While I can agree that the spill valve is first to go out in the pump due to sticky, I don't agree that the cause is directly because of the e85 itself. When I did my testing, I boiled off several potfuls of e85 and all that was left was a yellowish oily substance which was likely a lubricant type additive that wasn't sticky. It wasn't until I added a LOT more heat and t6 that there was any sticky development, and even then, it was only sticky where oil had been; the part of the ceramic coated metal sample that came in contact with the bottom of the pan was not sticky, but was in contact with e85 at all times due to boiling.

That's my experience at any rate.

What about a coating that almost illiminates surface friction. They have this advanced coating that they promote for water and oil...to keep stuff clean and dry. For instance, you can coat a boot in it, walk in mud, and the mud falls off...it won't stick. Oil you can pour on it and the oil slides off the coated area, literally and goes to wherever is not coated. Near-Frictionless Carbon Coating - New Material is Slicker Than Teflon Read this when you get a chance. There have been more developments since this release.

Having the internals and spill needle coated with that could be beneficial, but I wonder how that would affect the internals with their ridiculous tight tolerances.

As a side note, I think the spill valve sticking could be completely fixed with a tiny bit of milling (on the part that you pry off that retains the spring and needle) and a teflon washer, since it's that surface that the needle sticks to when issues occur.

It should be like a piston coating...extremely thin...and it requires no machining after coating.

I finally have some time as i am getting into my slow season for my home business, so I posted a WTB ad for HPFP parts. Its time we start eliminating/ confirming all of these ideas. I will start with @Enki;'s ideas first. As I think the probability for success is higher.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

I have a complete HPFP I can donate. I just want to sort out my low fuel pressure issues first and it's to whomever wants to fix this shii...stuff.

Fixed that for you.

I hate people who use profanities. Fucking assholes

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

I know right? Have to run around shitting up every thread with their indignant fucking bullshit.
Stupid fucking cunts.

If you want to send it my way it would help get this project started.

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I'll send it to whomever can get the job done

Make sure you don't need it in the future, because the pump may not ever work again.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

In deed. Not going to be sending it out until I can have my low pressure issue resolved with confidence.

Pumps are on order. I also messaged CPE to see if they had any old broken pumps laying around that we could use. I am excited to finally get to the next step. There is a solution, we just have to find the right one. I'm not a big fan of spending all this money, but oh well,

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

A few of the pumps showed up, one of them had the spring mod like @Enki; did on the spill valve. Thought it was funny.

Had a member donate some pump parts as well at a meet, I'll be going to the machine shop when I get some time.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

I wonder how much material this will add to the surface. Something like this coating would be beneficial to many engine parts but for our car, it would be great if it could be used on something like our intake valves.

I doubt this stuff is made to handle extreme temperatures. It seems more like an everyday "don't ruin your shit" kind of thing. The fuel pump and intake valves will get very hot.

There has been a mod for the button valve on the bottom part of the the spill valve. It helps keep the coils of the spring from touching. That's all fine and dandy, but what about the top? How do we keep that damn needle from sticking??? Well I may have finally come up with a fix (trial of course).

The problem we are facing is when the needle gets gummy, it sticks to the collar preventing the button valve from closing causing pressure to not build. To solve this issue, I crimped the spring directly to the needle on the solenoid.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/12/ydasysyq.jpg
Picture illustrates spring securely attached to solenoid needle.

I then attached the spring to the needle and I am left with this.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/12/pajejy6e.jpg


Theoretically speaking...
As the solenoid energizes it will have enough power to pull the needle up, and when it is not energized it will push it back down regardless of gummy residue.

I installed this in my pump, and it holds pressure fine. I will see when or if my valve starts to stick.

Thoughts or Comments?



Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

Simple yet effective. I look forward to the results, here's to hoping we will have a future on full e.

That actually could work, depending on the power of the solenoid (which should be just fine, actually, considering the strength of the spring).

Good thinking.

That would be insane if something so simple works. I would definitely like to be signed up for this if it works.

This is not intended to make our cars able to run full E long term. It is intended to eliminate sudden fuel drop so we don't have to limp home. I am still working on a fuel pump seal mod to keep oil out in the first place.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

Sir, I will buy you the biggest glass of beer you have ever seen if you figure this out. I want to run full E without issues.

Afterthought: you really should only have to affix the needle to the spring, since that shit is gonna get yanked by magnetic forces anyways.

I have it figured out... Data is too premature to release at this point though.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

:You_Rock_Emoticon::smlove2::love:

Finally Got the nerve to do a few WOT pulls. I really hate doing stupid shit with my daily driver, but oh well. Luckily Logs turned out to be better then I was expecting. Pressure during WOT stayed between the range of 1760 & 1830psi. Normally I would see cells dip into the 1600's, So this is a good change.
Unfortunately, I must note that my Idle PSI has suffered with this upper spring MOD. Target idle fuel pressure is 750PSI, I am only hitting High 600's. However, as soon as i tap the fuel pressure is back on track. I will do a idle adjustment and see if that cures the issue.

You really don't need to target higher fuel pressure at idle...imo.

Yea 750 seems very high. I believe my idle fp is around 400-500.

I target high pressure at idle mostly as a throwback to when I was full e, to help keep pulse width down and promote better atomization.

I just did it in an attempt to make my engine idle smoother. It seemed to help some, so I never changed it back. Saw @Enki; run similar pressures when he was on Full E. I saw no harm in running slightly higher idle pressures.

The point of my comment was to let everyone know I am seeing lower then targeted fuel pressures at idle.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

I may have to give the higher fuel pressure at idle a shot, my car idles terribly. It may be masking some other issue, but better idle quality is better idle quality. #YOLO


:D

Kings of Corn (HPFP + OIL)
 

I just edited my map, but I started thinking about the higher fuel pressure at idle/low load and I thought of a potential issue. We all know that the DISI has issues with fuel diluting the oil, do you guys think this might make it happen even faster?
@Enki; @littleloogy;

The opposite, really. Higher pressure yields better atomization and less liquid fuel on surfaces.

I have ran Pennzoil Ultra from day 1. Every oil change (3,000 miles) I send a sample of the oil to Blackstone Laboratories. I have never had a problem with fuel dilution before or after I changed my fuel pressure settings. Even with really aggressive timing, my fuel in oil levels were almost non existent.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

Well, the car does seem to idle a little smoother with the higher pressure and I don't hear as much popping in the exhaust either.

Cool, good to know it actually does something.

I knew there was some kind of reason for all your madness... Lol

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

I like to think I put the "Mad" in "Science"

Emergency spill valve replacement kit
Get yours today at WWW.ohshitmyvalvestuckagain.com
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/14/7a4azyvu.jpg


Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

This is potentially too important of a test to be buried deep in a thread about oil, and should get its own thread IMO.

Just sayin.

GTFO would also suffice, therefore I will continue HERE. God, I hope we can figure this out.

It's not a GTFO situation; I meant what I said in my prior post.

;-) I know, thank you.

Hmm, this looks useful. ;)

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Death occurred at 1900 hrs last night...
2,000 miles of E55
480 miles full E85 (winter/spring)
Pennzoil Ultra 5w30

I have restarted my test, we will see how far I can go on round 2.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/temyruda.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/zematu2y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/u8e4a6yb.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/23/he3y9ere.jpg



Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

My condolences. Are there any hardware change for round 2? If not, what makes you think it will be different?


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Seals in the retaining nut; should keep more of the oil out.
Def black death there. Was it difficult to extract everything from the retaining nut?

Nope, it only took a few mins. Shit came right out. I used kerosene.
I need to run this setup one more time. I did not start this test with a clean pump. My results of the oil test were tainted.
This pump has 18,000 miles of e 85 mixes. Who knows how much shit was in there prior to the start of this test.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

So no seals yet?


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@Enki; I drove 50 miles and pulled my pump again. Black death was beginning to form. Penn Ultra sucks for preventing death. In case you want to update the list of failures.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

What's the exact oil?

Also if you want to verify my findings, try out the Royal Purple listed in the OP; seems to be the best oil I've tested as far as full E85 goes.

Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 full synthetichttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/24/qa9equby.jpg

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

You bet. next oil change. I'll try to verify.

Once car is up and running, gonna try kendell oil. Says good for e85.



Also saw this...

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._Fuel.aspxning

Broken link:
Best Motor Oil for Engines Using E85 Fuel

EDIT: Oddly enough, T6 seems to be one of the worst offenders in terms of black death forming, so I'm not sure that is a very good tip. At least in our case. That honda is most likely port injected and doesn't have to deal with the HPFP issues.

Thank you sir.


Yeah I kno its PI. But something to try also.



Ill be on 100% E soon to try some oils.

Just dumped the Pennzoil ultra... I am going to use Redline 10w30 for this run. I know I did say I was going to confirm royal purple but, was reading a lot about redline and wanted to give this a shot first.

I also cleaned my pump, so I will get some fresh data as to how this oil holds up.

On a personal note, I am about ready to take my engine apart. I have lost a HPFP mounting bolt. I have been searching for the past 5hrs with no luck. I think the speed got hungry. FML

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

I am glad u are still going at it. I hope u find a good solution. Goodluck

Have you dropped the under tray yet?

Guys trying random oils won't help. Only way to test an oil is to put 3/4 e85 and 1/4 oil in a pan and put it on a burner then turned on high.

Obviously.

In before
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...1&d=1393724121

Question, were you drinking wine while doing this test? Nice... Lol


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Yeah, I did. It ended up being in my radiator fan shroud standing up on its head (vertical) behind my fan in the corner where the radiator and the shroud meet.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

No but I had a respiratory infection.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ml#post1324983

Everytime i drop anything thats where it always is so weird

Just thought I would update you on this God giving Oil. I am at 100 Miles, no Sticky Yet to report. I have been doing 20 miles Runs. Start engine, Drive for 15 miles normal driving, (Freeways, on ramps, stoplights ect...) then for 5 Miles drive it like you stole it, then park it. let Cool and repeat. At the 100 mile mark I decided to take a log. I only see one cell that fell in the high 1500's I am not worried about it.Attachment 149786

Do you know if the Redline is a Dexxos oil like the RP is? Honestly, I'd bet RP with your spill valve mod would be fixed totally. Could you post or pm me the details on what you did? I might be able to do this with another local car that could benefit from some full sauce.

They claim it exceeds GM's Dexos spec. I PMed you about the spill valve...

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

That shit is such a bitch. IDK how it is on a genpu, but I spent a solid hour trying to get that blue clip from the intake manifold vacuum line out of there on my car. Found some unknown bolt as well. Lol.

Delete that shit! It is such a PITA, I never put it back on. I replaced it with a hose. It slides on and off in seconds.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

Just a FYI, I am at 250 Miles on this Redline 10w30. I have not had any pressure drop. Here is a log of me beating the shit out of my car on my way back from work.Attachment 150552
I will pull the pump some time this weekend to see how it looks. If all is good, then this oil is a win.

Edit: I am also running a fuel additive to combat the sticky spill valve. This combination has been a win win for me. I can officially say I am on full E, with no modifications to my pump.

Except for the needle spring mod, right?

Nope, I took it out. Pump is 100% stock besides the autotechs. I even put the original button valve spring back in. I wanted to make sure I fully tested this additive before posting it up. I do not want people trying it if it has side effects.

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Have you run this mysterious additive with Rotella? IF not, any plans to do so?

any updates me needs the full corn :naughty:

Yes. I'm dying to know too :-)

Yeah what happened? This thread just went cold

There's an angry mob forming. WE DEMAND ANSWERS!
:angryfire:

At least we're not waiting on a vendor. Cough cough!!!

I'm full corn... Hit 500 miles, no problems to speak of.

Edit: Yet...

Im planning on going full E again very soon. Would be awesome if this works. even 500 miles before cleaning is good enough for me.

Toping off with E is fun. Plus the mileage is better then I thought. I am getting low 20"s MPG... City driving

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Pull your VVT, shift at or slightly below 2500 rpm and reap the benefits.

You mean make sure it's at factory spec, or change the spec a bit?

From the tune.

I am doing my first 400 mile Road trip on Full E this weekend, heading to Tahoe. I wont run any VVT, I'll see what my mileage is on the freeway. I wish my Fuel Gauge was working :-(

On top of your already 500 miles?

Yep. I'm packing a spare Fuel pump, just in case i loose pressure. I don't foresee a problem though. Yesterday I did 4 WOT runs (40-120mph), this morning it started up fine. I even used a stethoscope to listen to my internals, they were not sticking, Joy.

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I think it's about time to branch out your testing of that secret sauce.