Kings of Corn (HPFP + OIL)

[mrQQ]

any updates on liqui moly?

[littleloogy]

I ended up filling up with Royal purple 5w30. This shit was like grape juice. I'll see how this oil does against black death compared to my last oil.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[MS3LUKE]

Originally Posted by mrQQ any updates on liqui moly?

Unfortunately nit yet
Should be the next couple weeks tho!

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

[mrQQ]

I would really love to be able to run 100% E85, just for the ease of filling up. Aaaaand it's tad cheaper aswell!

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by MS3LUKE Unfortunately nit yet Should be the next couple weeks tho! Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Two weeks!!!

Sent from Stockish Pu

[littleloogy]

I rebuilt the pump while i changed my oil to royal purple 5w-30. I don't know how I feel about this oil. I got a lot of relief valve squeaks on my way to work this morning. Internals seem to be sticking slightly after only 20 miles. I also heard slight chatter on startup. I am not running any additive like I was with Redline. I want to see how long I can go. Before failure.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Enki]

You running the DEXOS 1 oil? The RP 5-30 DEXOS 1 oil lasted the longest for me out of every other oil I've tried.

[littleloogy]

This stuff.
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/p...ple-motor-oil/

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[littleloogy]

Well all in all i say this oil works pretty well. At 150 miles on full E I have yet to encounter any deaths, no sticky, and no blacks. Must be something in that purple substance. I am not sure why my pump was squealing at the beginning, but it stopped that next day. Maybe I was being paranoid, I don't know. This statement may jinx it, oh well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Spectrix]

Are you still manually injecting fuel treatment into the spill valve?

[littleloogy]

Fuck no. Can't get a baseline test being on additive.

Edit: I also back on my stock SV and stock button return spring.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Enki]

@littleloogy; did you see my Blackstone UOA on that oil? 6 month change interval and there was no fuel in it. Good shit.

[carfreakMS3]

Have any of you guys done a study on Eneos oil? Thats what I run in my Speed3 and seem's to be the best oil ive used to date. Granted I dont run e85 or any mix of that sort but was wondering if anyone else has tried it to see how well it works.

[littleloogy]

Yes, I was surprised to say the least. But made me feel more comfortable running it because your wear metals looked great. The oil feels like Pennzoil ultra on cold startup and overall engine smoothness, so I like that part. You are on to something about this oil being more resistant to E.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Enki]

Originally Posted by carfreakMS3 Have any of you guys done a study on Eneos oil? Thats what I run in my Speed3 and seem's to be the best oil ive used to date. Granted I dont run e85 or any mix of that sort but was wondering if anyone else has tried it to see how well it works.

You have any UOA done to back up those claims, or is it one of those butt-dyno type situations?

Originally Posted by littleloogy Yes, I was surprised to say the least. But made me feel more comfortable running it because your wear metals looked great. The oil feels like Pennzoil ultra on cold startup and overall engine smoothness, so I like that part. You are on to something about this oil being more resistant to E. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Yeah the fact I got several miles out of it rather than having the spill valve go out in my driveway was a bit of a plus.

[carfreakMS3]

Originally Posted by Enki You have any UOA done to back up those claims, or is it one of those butt-dyno type situations? Yeah the fact I got several miles out of it rather than having the spill valve go out in my driveway was a bit of a plus.

More of a butt dyno and any other oil I used I would always pull an egr code but since using this oil not a single code. Just wondering if anyone else has used it etc...

[littleloogy]

@Enki; I did use the additive to clean my internals and also used it as a lube for my seal. So naturally there is some additive left in the fastener. I hope that having that in there at the beginning is not fucking with my test results.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Enki]

Don't see why it would; my pump is just especially bad on E for some reason (much like everyone else that's run it for extended periods of time I guess).

[littleloogy]

Well I was thinking if additive was trapped inside it would retard the formation of black death.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Enki Don't see why it would; my pump is just especially bad on E for some reason (much like everyone else that's run it for extended periods of time I guess).

How many miles on your pump? Have you ever replaced your quad ring?

[Enki]

Originally Posted by crutch77 How many miles on your pump? Have you ever replaced your quad ring?

>50k and yes, with a brand new one. No change.

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Enki >50k and yes, with a brand new one. No change.

Sorry for some obvious questions here, I just have a hard time accepting such variable performance in such a precision manufactured mechanism, and I believe these are the most likely variables:

Buna or viton quad ring? (this is a question I'm particularly interested in for those who have had more success running full E85)

What brand internals? How much resistance was there when you pressed the piston through the quad ring?

Do you torque the 18mm nut assy with a torque wrench or just goodntight?

Any doubt at all in your mind as to whether the quad ring was damaged during piston install?

What really has me scratching my head is your long-term UOA that showed no fuel dilution whatsoever. Was that with the same pump installation, no variables at all in the HPFP between the UOA interval and the E85 failures? With no fuel dilution, it follows that your quad ring/piston seal is doing a great job...

[Enki]

To more quickly answer the above questions, I'll just say that over time, running full E will gradually get worse and worse until you just don't bother to try to run it anymore; this is with both the stock and an aftermarket quad ring (you'll have to search to figure out which one I have as I don't recall).

The type/brand of internals don't matter either, as every type of internals/pump has had issues with the exception of CPE pumps lasting significantly longer, probably due to the revised retaining nut sealing configuration.

Quad ring was fine before/during/after numerous installs. It isn't the issue.

As for your last question, if you read my thread, I probably pulled the entire pump twice during that six month interval. As a side note, the fuel dilution doesn't come from the pump, it comes from the nature of direct injection spraying fuel directly into/onto the cylinder.

This was also a cold sample, so it had ample time to evaporate any fuel out of the oil as it is; it's very possible that this oil simply doesn't dilute with fuel, which could very well have been sitting on top of the oil in pan.

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Enki To more quickly answer the above questions, I'll just say that over time, running full E will gradually get worse and worse until you just don't bother to try to run it anymore; this is with both the stock and an aftermarket quad ring (you'll have to search to figure out which one I have as I don't recall). The type/brand of internals don't matter either, as every type of internals/pump has had issues with the exception of CPE pumps lasting significantly longer, probably due to the revised retaining nut sealing configuration. Quad ring was fine before/during/after numerous installs. It isn't the issue. As for your last question, if you read my thread, I probably pulled the entire pump twice during that six month interval. As a side note, the fuel dilution doesn't come from the pump, it comes from the nature of direct injection spraying fuel directly into/onto the cylinder. This was also a cold sample, so it had ample time to evaporate any fuel out of the oil as it is; it's very possible that this oil simply doesn't dilute with fuel, which could very well have been sitting on top of the oil in pan.

Thank you for the education. I know I'm coming very late to this party, but this is very interesting stuff and I'm hoping to gain enough knowledge that I might be able to contribute something. I've read most of the important threads start to finish, but it's been a while on some of them.

[littleloogy]

Alright senior Oil chief. I am excited to say that I did make it to 250 miles without touching the pump. Pressure is starting to show signs of spill valve sticking but this is to he expected after 20 hot shutdowns. I'll pull the pump over the weekend and see if there is any death on of around the internals.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[vtekken]

So I read somewhere today that someone using the CPE full pump assembly has run two years on 100% e85 without any issues.

If this is true, could we not disassemble one of these to reverse engineer the build? I'm wondering if they used some magic seals, with unicorn jizz.

Does anyone here have said CPE pump, and has had issues? I'd be willing to pitch in to buy one if someone is willing to test.

[Constantin]

If I remember correctly few people were running CPE pumps and had Black Death...

[Enki]

It's more likely to be a combination of pump design, oil and fuel quality.

[navyspeed3]

Bump for updates in the interest of corn!

[SarcasticOne]

Contacted a local oil supplier here in Australia that claim e85 compatibility with some oils, described what happens with our hpfp.. Got the following back:

Our E85 compatible engine oils all meet API SN performance specifications. Engine oils that meet this specification all pass the API emulsion retension test which determines how well the engine oil retains the water molecules that are brought into the crankcase with the Ethanol fuel via piston ring blowby etc. The black glue like substance you are referring to is probably due to using an engine oil that does not meet the API emulsion retension tests, and this inadequate oil has broken down and formed a gel with the water molecules from the Ethanol fuel. — In this case we recommend you to use our FULL SYNTHETIC 5W-40 LONG LIFE ENGINE OIL (SYN5W40) as it meets the API SN and API emulsion retension test requirements, see recommendation below.

[SuckSqueezBangBlow]

25% mix no cleaning but more knock

[Enki]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Contacted a local oil supplier here in Australia that claim e85 compatibility with some oils, described what happens with our hpfp.. Got the following back:

Probably incorrect. When I did my test and got the sticky death, the oil I used was fresh from the quart bottle. If there was water present, it was from humidity in the air and probably not enough to cause issues (I live in AZ).

[jtday]

Originally Posted by Enki Probably incorrect. When I did my test and got the sticky death, the oil I used was fresh from the quart bottle. If there was water present, it was from humidity in the air and probably not enough to cause issues (I live in AZ).

I believe this is correct. Here's a transcript from pqiamerica:

Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource. Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.

This doesn't mean that it's compatible with the e85 that enters our fuel pumps. I only run e30 so I don't expect to ever have any of these issues you guys running e85 have but I've been doing a bit of research into oils compatible with our engines, specifically redline and motul products, and came across this which discusses an E85 oriented oil which will be available some time in 2015. Could be promising but tests and time will determine.

Motul Engine Lubricant Range Explained

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by Enki Probably incorrect. When I did my test and got the sticky death, the oil I used was fresh from the quart bottle. If there was water present, it was from humidity in the air and probably not enough to cause issues (I live in AZ).

It's also dessox certified etc... Will likely be using this oil at next change, not sure if I'm willing to go without the additive when trying full e85 tho...

The two e85 suppliers I contacted both said it was an issue with the pump and I should contact the manufacturer of the car to get it fixed (HA!)

And another oil & petrol (no e85) supplier said if this issue only occurred with higher blends of ethanol I should only use lower blends... As they don't test their oils against our situation/with e85...

Did realise that dessox is a GM certification, be funny if a GM product cured one of our biggest issues... @Raider; might have to stop his hate for a little while :p

[Raider]

No, just more reason for problems with our cars. Probably meth lab leftovers and tears of sorrow from the high school dropouts who went to work the line in the D.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne It's also dessox certified etc... Will likely be using this oil at next change, not sure if I'm willing to go without the additive when trying full e85 tho... The two e85 suppliers I contacted both said it was an issue with the pump and I should contact the manufacturer of the car to get it fixed (HA!) And another oil & petrol (no e85) supplier said if this issue only occurred with higher blends of ethanol I should only use lower blends... As they don't test their oils against our situation/with e85... Did realise that dessox is a GM certification, be funny if a GM product cured one of our biggest issues... @Raider; might have to stop his hate for a little while :p

Two things:
1. Dexos
2. It's a standard not a product.

[vtekken]

Dexos is the correct spelling.

[cletusb]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Contacted a local oil supplier here in Australia that claim e85 compatibility with some oils, described what happens with our hpfp.. Got the following back:

That was nulon right? I don't think they know what to say sometimes...

First from the website, while the 5w40 is SN only the 5w30 is dexos certified (also SN)

I asked them awhile ago about oil and they told me to use 15w-50!

The Mazda 6 MPS engine can take anything from an SAE 5W-30 up to and including an SAE 20W-50 viscosity engine oil. The engine oil must also meet API SJ performance specifications at a minimum. Now that you are modifying the engine you have to consider the increased load and temperature associated with this and also protecting those expensive engine components, which is why we recommended the FULL SYNTHETIC 15W-50 STREET & TRACK HIGH PERFORMANCE ENGINE OIL (SYN15W50).

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by cletusb That was nulon right? I don't think they know what to say sometimes... First from the website, while the 5w40 is SN only the 5w30 is dexos certified (also SN) I asked them awhile ago about oil and they told me to use 15w-50!

Yeah, was going to go with the 5w30 :p it seemed a bit odd that they'd suggest a non e85 certified oil when I say I'm going to run e85...

Know someone who works at a refinery here that supplies e85, but doubt they will be able to help

[cletusb]

I've got about 20 liters of Castrol Edge 5w-30 A3/B4 and 10L of 5w-40 SN to get through before I change brands (although 5w40 is not 50% at Repco so might get another 10L lol)

I was going to try the Nulon but I think I might go with Penrite ENVIRO+ GF-5 5W-30 as my first test oil for E85

Seems to be good for everyday use E blends and also direct injection (LPG mind you but still)

SN, GL-5 and GM dexos1TM Licensed.

ENVIRO+ GF-5 is designed for use with flexi-fuel vehicles that can run on both unleaded petrol and E85 ethanol blend fuels. It is the primary choice of lubrication for late model vehicles that are running ethanol blends of fuels. It is also suitable for late model vehicles with dedicated LPG systems including those with direct injection LPI.