Kings of Corn (HPFP + OIL)

[littleloogy]

Weird. I guess I am running into spark blow out as opposed to injector limitations then. I still have well over 1800 psi with my pump mod at over 130 IDC. Plugs are gapped at .026 and am at 20psi at 6000 RPMS. I just assumed it was my injectors not being able to keep up with my fuel demand.

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[Enki]

It's probably spray window; you are likely spraying deep into the power stroke. What is your IPW?

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Enki It's probably spray window; you are likely spraying deep into the power stroke. What is your IPW?

I'm not sure what you are asking. My IPW near the time of the event is around 10ms and usually happens at around 6200 RPMs.

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[Enki]

IIRC it takes 10 ms for the crank to make a complete revolution at 6k rpm...Meaning you're spraying during/after the spark event.

Might have to either adjust phasing slightly or reduce boost or lean it out when you're running into issues.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Enki IIRC it takes 10 ms for the crank to make a complete revolution at 6k rpm...Meaning you're spraying during/after the spark event. Might have to either adjust phasing slightly or reduce boost or lean it out when you're running into issues.

Yes, the math is sound. I did not even think of this being the issue. This has fixed my problem. It pulled smooth passed 6500rpms this morning, Thank you.



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[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Enki HPFP and/or cam lobes. A positive displacement pump that builds pressure 3 times per 4 injection events isn't the best.

Unproven. Existing injectors dont outflow the aftermarket pumps currently available except at low engine rpms, so in terms of what's holding the DI system back from fueling more power, it is the injectors.

[mrmonk7663]

130IDC? The car isn't breaking up at all? When I ran 110-115idc the car would break up in the upper rev range....I'm now back down to 95IDC.

Originally Posted by littleloogy Yes, the math is sound. I did not even think of this being the issue. This has fixed my problem. It pulled smooth passed 6500rpms this morning, Thank you. Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Unproven. Existing injectors dont outflow the aftermarket pumps currently available except at low engine rpms, so in terms of what's holding the DI system back from fueling more power, it is the injectors.

Fair enough, but I don't think the cam lobes are ideal.

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 130IDC? The car isn't breaking up at all? When I ran 110-115idc the car would break up in the upper rev range....I'm now back down to 95IDC.

He's on full e85, and as a result can get away with a LOT more.

[mrmonk7663]

Why does full E85 allow him to get away with more? That is interesting. I was on 50/50 when I was breaking up. Now I'm on a 29 percent blend for the added fuel headroom with this 3076.

Originally Posted by Enki Fair enough, but I don't think the cam lobes are ideal. He's on full e85, and as a result can get away with a LOT more.

[Enki]

Probably has something to do with the burn rate and the tolerance for corn to go lean without issues. I experienced something similar.

[Sandman978]

Does corn combust relatively slower than regular fuel? Would take contribute to favorable results in lean conditions?

[Enki]

I think it might actually burn faster under compression, but I'm sure someone can chime in with the correct answer.

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[littleloogy]

E burns much faster then petrol. E85 has a greater AKI rating which allows us to advance the timing as much as we do.

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[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by littleloogy E burns much faster then petrol. E85 has a greater AKI rating which allows us to advance the timing as much as we do. Sent From a Galaxy, Far Far Away...

Everything in reading says alcohol burns slower than gas, which would fit with being about to advance timing so much.

[Tokay444]

Up to 60% slower in fact.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Everything in reading says alcohol burns slower than gas, which would fit with being about to advance timing so much.

You are 100% correct. Here is some good info not written by me:

HORSEPOWER: Because Ethanol contains oxygen, it has a very low power stoichiometric when compared to gasoline fuels (6.5 compared to 12.5). Ethanol must be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline, more than offsetting the lower energy per unit volume. The net energy released per cycle is higher and this results in more horsepower. For example, if a pound of gasoline is burned at its preferred max power air fuel mixture of 12.5/1, it will release approximately 19,000 BTU’s of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred power stoichiometric of 6.5/1 will release approximately 24,400 BTU’s. By comparison, methanol releases slightly more, about 27,650 BTU’s. The more ethanol there is in gasoline, the more powerful it is as a motor fuel. Typically, you can expect at least 5% more horsepower at the rear wheels of a vehicle running on E-85 than one burning gasoline only.

INCREASED ENGINE LIFE: Ethanol has a very high MON octane rating, allowing engine builders to run higher compression ratios without fears of destructive detonation. It also has a very high Latent Heat of Vaporization, so the engine is cooled far better than one running on gasoline. This lowers bottom end and oiling system temperatures substantially.

REDUCED EMISSIONS: Although reducing emissions usually will not directly affect the ontrack performance of a race car, engine parts like pistons and valves tend to stay cleaner. More importantly, there are serious health concerns with many of the octane boosting additives that must be added to racing gasoline in order for them to be compatible with higher compression racing engines. Ethanol fumes are also non-toxic.

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[Enki]

As if there wasn't another reason to use the RP oil:

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...kstone-lol.png

>6200 miles and nearly 9 months on this OCI and they recommend extending AGAIN.

[mituc]

They recommend 8k miles which is getting closer to the 9200 miles oil change interval recommended by mazda. Not bad...

[Enki]

Not on their horse piss oil I wouldn't.

[SteelJM1]

So now that the end is nigh, time to start playing with various dexos oils. Enki's running the RP pretty successfully so far soit's toime to test if it's indeed the dexos standards that make it booze friendly or something with the RP. There's a bunch of different dexos spec oils out there. I think I'll start with castrol edge 5-30. Or QS ultimate durability, whichever one is easier to find locally.

I'm going to be running full booze so issues should pop up quickly I imagine. Couple thousand miles.

[Enki]

I think you should stay on the RP at least for one more oil change, since there's T6 in there right now, and I never really *fully* tested the RP.

[SteelJM1]

My idea is that with a good drain and a freshly cleaned pump that the traces of T6 shouldn't affect the replacement oil.

[Enki]

Considering most of the time I couldn't get out of the driveway before I had pump issues, I'm gonna have to say that even traces of it in the engine are going to pose a problem.

[SteelJM1]

Hmm :/ Well I guess we'll have to see. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that the pump issues aren't consistent either. Only in the respect that it will gunk up, but in terms of how long seems to vary pretty wildly.

[Enki]

Depends on the oil you use and the quality of the E85 (which you will be getting from the same place I do probably).

[SteelJM1]

The super slow pump @ valencia and houghton. The one at irvington and houghton is too expensve.

[Enki]

Yep. BTW Blackstone is telling me to extend my OCI to 8k+ miles...I won't be changing my oil until next year per them.

Food for thought.

[SteelJM1]

You're running 50/50 though, right?

As it stands, I'm projecting to only put on ~8k on the racecar per year. I just figured out testing others could again help determine if its the dexos or the RP that is playing nice with the booze.

[Enki]

...And if you have to rebuild the pump every time you go out in it? Let's confirm that RP works here too first, esp since I left four quarts of it at your place.

Also no, I'm on E29.

[SteelJM1]

Well if that's the case then I guess we're all back to square one. E85 will be the test for this. You'll need to show me the pump cleaning procedure when we pop that transmission back in and I'll carry the kit with me at all times.

[Enki]

OK guess next time I'm down there I'll pick up that oil I left there too then.

Edit: I just think cheaping out on oil is the wrong way to go about this, esp since we have so few validated results on this oil. Whatever man.

[SteelJM1]

Nono, I forgot before that you weren't running E85, so I thought you'd had vetted the RP already on it. I'm more than happy to put it through it's paces with the strong drink and see where it stands. If RP checks out then I'd like to try different dexos oils. Not for being cheap, but for choice. Afterall, perhaps some people can't get their hands on RP easily, but maybe something else could work.

[Enki]

Ahh ok. Yeah only like 3-5 people have tried RP including myself, but my test was fresh off of T6, and I wasn't doing the redline mod.

[Mfinlay04]

I feel like i may have a freek motor/HPFP, I ran 50/50 mix for 1+ year on t6 and never experienced black death. Never took apart my HPFP after I upgraded to AT internals. Since I've mixed it up with some Chevron Delo oil, ran Mobil 0w40 Euro, and 5w30 Castrol Edge Tit. I normally run a bottle of b12 through the tank every oil change, but that's out of habit and from most of the people on this forum no tank additive prevents or fixes BD once it occurs. This is the first winter that I've decided to run straight 93 for a few months, since I've started a 50/50 mix several years ago.

I'm too lazy, and afraid to open up my HPFP so long as I'm not having issues. Don't want to jinx the shit

How many people on here have consistently ran a 50/50 mix without BD for 2+ years? I started running E in Aug of 2012 50/50 mix for the past 30k+ miles

[Enki]

You don't get issues on 50/50 or below. That's pretty well established.

[Mfinlay04]

Originally Posted by Enki You don't get issues on 50/50 or below. That's pretty well established.

I've seen a few people on here running less than 50/50 open their HPFP and have some black shit in there. IDK if it was causing any real issues... or if they did it for clean sake. I'd love to make the jump to e85 but I work 12 hr days and 4-5 days a week and don't have time for the BS of the car not running randomly.

[Enki]

Car still runs, just not very well. I had my pump crap out at the start of a trip to another city once, drove it 200 miles with 60 PSI. Took about a solid 3 minutes to get to 80 mph, but there was just enough fuel to do it.

[BlackFlag]

I have 99 Quattro buna-n seals if anyone local to me needs one lol.

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by Mfinlay04 I've seen a few people on here running less than 50/50 open their HPFP and have some black shit in there. IDK if it was causing any real issues... or if they did it for clean sake. I'd love to make the jump to e85 but I work 12 hr days and 4-5 days a week and don't have time for the BS of the car not running randomly.

You can make the full jump, just follow the steps in the sticky. I've went from 93, to e42, to 93, to e85, to e50, to 93, and now back to e85, car still runs fine.

I was just as worried the first time I filled up with some e85, after that first start, and it gets going, all the worries go away.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Mfinlay04 I've seen a few people on here running less than 50/50 open their HPFP and have some black shit in there. IDK if it was causing any real issues... or if they did it for clean sake. I'd love to make the jump to e85 but I work 12 hr days and 4-5 days a week and don't have time for the BS of the car not running randomly.

Not sure how I missed this post; anywho, let me enlighten the masses. I bought a spare pump from a shop a long time ago; it came off a CX7, had stock internals, never saw a drop of corn. It was so siezed with black death they shipped it to me with the 90 degree part that bolts to the head and the pump (that surrounds the hpfp cam lobes) attached. I had to hammer/pry it apart.

There's pics somewhere I think.

At any rate, the black death is a systemic issue that derives from the design of our pumps, and affects *all* of our pumps, regardless of mod or corn level.