Kings of Corn (HPFP + OIL)

[Enki]

Replacement quad ring didn't really help me any. I still think the goal will be keeping oil out of the inside of the pump, or finding an oil with fewer issues/longer time between cleanings.

Honestly, I'd be ok with once a month. Once a day on the other hand....not so much.

[silvapain]

Had to search for it. Tons of information in the E85 section.

Originally Posted by silvapain The O-ring I'm currently using is a 0.301x0.070" 70 Durometer Buna-N Quattro Seal. They can be purchased from McMaster-Carr. I also have a regular toroidal O-ring stuffed in with the Quattro O-ring. Tapadatass

[Constantin]

Originally Posted by silvapain Had to search for it. Tons of information in the E85 section.

Can you do a quick "how to"? That would help a lot!

[mrQQ]

Originally Posted by phate Yes, fill with mix, tune, make rape.

nice. What is the maximum mix that can be safely run without periodic cleanup?

[GODspeed7]

Originally Posted by mrQQ nice. What is the maximum mix that can be safely run without periodic cleanup?

Will you please stop being lazy and read the fucking thread?!?! But since you will be butthurt after that I'll spoon you the answer. Greater than 50/50 will start causing problems.

[slw97]

Originally Posted by GODspeed7 Will you please stop being lazy and read the fucking thread?!?! But since you will be butthurt after that I'll spoon you the answer. Greater than 50/50 will start causing problems.

This thread really is a good read. I have learned alot about E85 reading it. Hopefully we can figire this out.

[GODspeed7]

Originally Posted by slw97 This thread really is a good read. I have learned alot about E85 reading it. Hopefully we can figire this out.

I agree and thank you for actually reading it. I may be a troll because I sit back and like to watch things unfold without speaking or asking dumb questions but trust me you will learn SO much from this site and especially everyone who posted in this thread by not asking dumb questions like that other guy.

[Mchart]

I forgot to ask this earlier -

Are the seals being used in the pump Viton based seals? The seals look to be black in color so I assume not. (Viton seals are green)

Basically; Viton seals are far more heat resistant and are better at blocking oils/fuels/whatever. They are also more resistant to caustics.

If the seal being used in the HPFP is a traditional seal then sourcing a Viton based equivalent would improve (Or potentially resolve) this situation IMO.

http://www.dupontelastomers.com/Prod...n/techInfo.asp

Also, I forgot where the thread was located but I remember someone on here (Phate?) doing some tests on the seals and with different fuels to see swell, etc. Was a Viton based gasket/seal used in this test?

[Mchart]

I pulled a very relevant table of data from the product brief.

Unless i've entirely misconstrued the nature of the problem we are discussing; I beleive it to be worth switching to a Viton o-ring and seeing if that improves the situation or not.

If someone does go out and decide to use a Viton O-Ring make sure you actually get an official Viton o-ring. There are many o-rings out there that are 'Viton' but do not have the official Dupont formulation. Thus, they are inferior in real world usage. Official Viton rings are a solid green color, or black with green markings on it.

[mazdafreak]

^^ Good info..... Enki, spill valve started to take a shit....pretty sure I got about ~500 miles on it since Aug 23..... I don't drive the car that much, it does sit usually for 4 days every week, rest is going out over the weekend, going to the g.fs and w.e else.....plus I'm in need of another oil change, I'm still sure I have t6 in the motor still since I switched to vr1 oil.

[pzr2874]

@Enki

Have you tried mmo yet? Lots of guys on BITOG live and die by it for lubrication

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 @Enki Have you tried mmo yet? Lots of guys on BITOG live and die by it for lubrication

MMO didn't do shit for me on E85.


Tapadatass

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Mchart I pulled a very relevant table of data from the product brief. Unless i've entirely misconstrued the nature of the problem we are discussing; I beleive it to be worth switching to a Viton o-ring and seeing if that improves the situation or not. If someone does go out and decide to use a Viton O-Ring make sure you actually get an official Viton o-ring. There are many o-rings out there that are 'Viton' but do not have the official Dupont formulation. Thus, they are inferior in real world usage. Official Viton rings are a solid green color, or black with green markings on it.

See if you can find quad rings in Viton in the size I posted above. I've had no luck.


Tapadatass

[Mchart]

Originally Posted by silvapain See if you can find quad rings in Viton in the size I posted above. I've had no luck. Tapadatass

http://www.marcorubber.com/quad_rings.htm

This place looks like a good bet. You'd need to call them though. They offer x-rings in all the same standard sizes as their o-rings and all the same material choices as well.

Also, make *sure* you order the 'Viton Extreme'. I've looked at some more data and the Viton Extreme is able to withstand ethanol (Or any alcohol for that matter) far better then normal Viton types and Buna-N.

http://www.marcorubber.com/compatibility.htm

[ms34m3]

Great Work Dudes!

[pzr2874]

Originally Posted by silvapain MMO didn't do shit for me on E85. Tapadatass

Did you just put the shit in or start with a freshly cleaned pump?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 Did you just put the shit in or start with a freshly cleaned pump?

There's a huge thread about testing E85 with the HPFP. Read.

I have cleaned my HPFP more times than many on here have wiped their asses.


Tapadatass

[mazdafreak]

Okay, this is weird.....So my fuel pressure dropped going to work on the highway, and got fuel pressure back after I got off the highway......I parked the car, since I had to work.....I went home, and my fuel pressure has not dropped for at least 30 miles so far.

So wtf happened?? I haven't had a chance to pull the spill valve yet....But I'm holding pressure.

[phate]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Okay, this is weird.....So my fuel pressure dropped going to work on the highway, and got fuel pressure back after I got off the highway......I parked the car, since I had to work.....I went home, and my fuel pressure has not dropped for at least 30 miles so far. So wtf happened?? I haven't had a chance to pull the spill valve yet....But I'm holding pressure.

Sounds like what I've experienced. Pressure would come and go, but it will eventually gum up enough that it renders the spill valve inoperable.

[mazdafreak]

^^Ahh makes sense.....I guess the vr1 oil works good.....When I ran t6, fp would drop right away and be gunked up.

This is the pic of the spill valve.....It wasnt super sticky, just a tad bit, it looked/felt like that gummy/sticky shit from a sticker.

[dead-zone]

That looks way better.

[mazdafreak]

@phate @Enki this is my buddies @justinspeed3 spill valve on 50/50 on t6 for maybe half the summer till now. He was having problems with afr going crazy and would randomly full cut, ap clint said to check spill valve, and well, u can see the results. I'm on 100% and my spill valve never looked this bad lol.

[Enki]

Fuck man MINE never looked that bad. Most of that is either from before adding corn (not cleaned prior to going mid-mix; probably should be a requirement, really) or hes right on the edge of ratio that causes issues.

How is he calculating his mix? Is he putting in the same amount of e85 to 91 per tank or just the same amount of corn each tank and topping off?

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Enki Fuck man MINE never looked that bad. Most of that is either from before adding corn (not cleaned prior to going mid-mix; probably should be a requirement, really) or hes right on the edge of ratio that causes issues. How is he calculating his mix? Is he putting in the same amount of e85 to 91 per tank or just the same amount of corn each tank and topping off?

Yeah same here, mine has NEVER looked that bad, and I'm on 100% E lol.....I don't kno the exact details, but I kno he fills up at every half a tank and puts ~6/6 gallons of 85/93. Idk if he adds a lil more 85 or not....Maybe @justinspeed3 can help answer??

So I think 50/50 down the road actually gunks up, or its the t6 oil.... I see nothing but problems with ppl running E and t6.

[Enki]

Could be the gas. I use 91.

Ultimately, he should make a thread on it.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Enki Fuck man MINE never looked that bad. Most of that is either from before adding corn (not cleaned prior to going mid-mix; probably should be a requirement, really) or hes right on the edge of ratio that causes issues. How is he calculating his mix? Is he putting in the same amount of e85 to 91 per tank or just the same amount of corn each tank and topping off?

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Yeah same here, mine has NEVER looked that bad, and I'm on 100% E lol.....I don't kno the exact details, but I kno he fills up at every half a tank and puts ~6/6 gallons of 85/93. Idk if he adds a lil more 85 or not....Maybe justinspeed3 can help answer?? So I think 50/50 down the road actually gunks up, or its the t6 oil.... I see nothing but problems with ppl running E and t6.

Originally Posted by Enki Could be the gas. I use 91. Ultimately, he should make a thread on it.

I think I can give some background on this car:

Tuned on 5050 MONTHS ago by yours truly. So I talked to him about this today and got some info, which is why the spill valve was pulled

He hasn't switched back to 93 since the 5050 tune, which is a ton of miles for him - I would guess 7-10k miles. Way back when we did the tune, he wanted to always top off the car because he drives it so much. I told him to always err on the high side with E85, which is exactly what he was doing. Over time, this has led to a higher than intended concentration.

He is approaching 13:1 AFR's on his current tank, due to too much ethanol. In terms of AFR's, it's fine, that's why we tune them conservatively (target 11.48). BUT, I think this extra ethanol put him in the 'danger zone' for black death build up. Couple that with lots of miles, and bam, you have buildup and the E85 woes we've come to know and love.

@justinspeed3 - can you verify the miles?
@mazdafreak - thanks for posting those pics.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

This thread makes me miss my car

[Dano]

you guys and your high concentration E85...lol

good thread...will need to read up. I am currently running E42/5050 but am not seeing any gains over E35 as of yet. The 42 needs about .5* more timing to reach the same WHP so IDK what I think yet.

zero issues with FP...well if you don't count pegging the FP sensor with a PTP 2150 RV...lol

note to self...put 1850RV back in while motor is torn down for oiling issues.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Dano you guys and your high concentration E85...lol good thread...will need to read up. I am currently running E42/5050 but am not seeing any gains over E35 as of yet. The 42 needs about .5* more timing to reach the same WHP so IDK what I think yet. zero issues with FP...well if you don't count pegging the FP sensor with a PTP 2150 RV...lol note to self...put 1850RV back in while motor is torn down for oiling issues.

Bah, its just that damn OCC you got.. Get the replacement pieces from Matt and you will be in business

[Dano]

isn't' it your bedtime?

[mazdafreak]

Np clint, I'm awesome . I was surprised to see that, I was like Wtf!


Anyways, idk if this matters, but justin says he's overdue for an oil change by like 4000 miles...pretty sure he changes it every ~3000....Guess t6 is starting to break down, idk, which I would guess why the oil is so black/dark......Just something to figure in too I guess.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Dano you guys and your high concentration E85...lol

The high concentrations will be put to better use soon enough

[Enki]

Originally Posted by phate The high concentrations will be put to better use soon enough

In before new stock turbo record.

[justinspeed3]

Originally Posted by phate I think I can give some background on this car: Tuned on 5050 MONTHS ago by yours truly. So I talked to him about this today and got some info, which is why the spill valve was pulled He hasn't switched back to 93 since the 5050 tune, which is a ton of miles for him - I would guess 7-10k miles. Way back when we did the tune, he wanted to always top off the car because he drives it so much. I told him to always err on the high side with E85, which is exactly what he was doing. Over time, this has led to a higher than intended concentration. He is approaching 13:1 AFR's on his current tank, due to too much ethanol. In terms of AFR's, it's fine, that's why we tune them conservatively (target 11.48). BUT, I think this extra ethanol put him in the 'danger zone' for black death build up. Couple that with lots of miles, and bam, you have buildup and the E85 woes we've come to know and love. @justinspeed3 - can you verify the miles? @mazdafreak - thanks for posting those pics.

if i had to guess ive put 9 to 10 k on the car maybe alittle less since ive been on e85 only time ive not been on 85 is when i went to the dealer and switched to my 93 tune.... when shawn took everything apart and i saw all the sludge i was def shocked.... like clint said my afr are high and im dropping fuel pressure at times at low rpm's and been feeling the effects of fuel cut latley for the past 2 days lol.... im at a half tank and going to run the rest out and switch back to 93 prolly by sunday.

[justinspeed3]

Originally Posted by phate I think I can give some background on this car: Tuned on 5050 MONTHS ago by yours truly. So I talked to him about this today and got some info, which is why the spill valve was pulled He hasn't switched back to 93 since the 5050 tune, which is a ton of miles for him - I would guess 7-10k miles. Way back when we did the tune, he wanted to always top off the car because he drives it so much. I told him to always err on the high side with E85, which is exactly what he was doing. Over time, this has led to a higher than intended concentration. He is approaching 13:1 AFR's on his current tank, due to too much ethanol. In terms of AFR's, it's fine, that's why we tune them conservatively (target 11.48). BUT, I think this extra ethanol put him in the 'danger zone' for black death build up. Couple that with lots of miles, and bam, you have buildup and the E85 woes we've come to know and love. @justinspeed3 - can you verify the miles? @mazdafreak - thanks for posting those pics.

i just seen this one.... as stated before i usually fill up at a half of tank or whenever i pass by a gas station with e85 bc the closest one too me is 9 miles away so if im near one il top it off.... at a half of tank i put 3.5 and 3.5 before if i had alittle more to go like a gallon or half a gallon id add the rest e85 so if i had to top it is only be a gallon more... im not the smartest guy around lol. clint said when i add e85 my afr and fuel dropping issue should be taken care of.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki In before new stock turbo record.

@silvapain 400hp stock turbo

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO @silvapain 400hp stock turbo

Always the optimist.


If we were NA, I would only expect about a 2-3% increase in WHp. With FI and E85 I don't know what to expect.

We'll find out soon enough though. Pistons are at the shop.,.


Tapadatass

[cld12pk2go]

Back to the original topic...

I would gum up my spill valve in ~50 miles when trying to run 7.5-8 gal/tank E85 (~E50) when using Walmart SuperTech 5w-30 synthetic. I could reduce the E85 concentration to 6-7 gal/tank and clean the spill valve in place enough to control again.

This was repeatable as it checked it 2-3 times.

I have never had any issues with this oil at E20-E40 during the past 1.5 years.

[Mattcinnc1]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Back to the original topic... I would gum up my spill valve in ~50 miles when trying to run 7.5-8 gal/tank E85 (~E50) when using Walmart SuperTech 5w-30 synthetic. I could reduce the E85 concentration to 6-7 gal/tank and clean the spill valve in place enough to control again. This was repeatable as it checked it 2-3 times. I have never had any issues with this oil at E20-E40 during the past 1.5 years.

u didnt have to clean spill valve either between E20-E40 either? for u atlease

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Mattcinnc1 u didnt have to clean spill valve either between E20-E40 either? for u atlease

Correct, zero issues below E50.