Resolving HPFP corn woes (black death/sticking spill valve)

[Mizzle]

I assume Ultra is, too?... since I'm running it

off-topic: 2gal E85 a fill-up and no known issues from the butt-dyno. The money saved on those two gallons is mind-boggling.

It's 3.369 / gal vs. 4.189 / gal for 93.

O_o

[silvapain]

I have had no HPFP issues on E50 (6 gallons 93 pump gas and 7 gallons E85). Most people only have issues on 100% E85.


Tapadatass

[Mizzle]

Originally Posted by silvapain I have had no HPFP issues on E50 (6 gallons 93 pump gas and 7 gallons E85). Most people only have issues on 100% E85. Tapadatass

... E47.2

[Enki]

Originally Posted by silvapain Hell, Mobil1 5W-30 is on the list and is readily available at AutoZone. Think I'll pick up a few quarts and try it out.

You may not need to; how's this for interesting:

I just got done pulling my pump (as I was only running the two x shaped o rings as I cut the scraper out of my pump and replaced it with an x-shaped oring) and guess what I saw?

Shit was clean. Like, I had just cleaned it clean. The tiniest bit of black death made its presence known only after i had fucked around with the piston sans spring/collar. The only thing that worries me about this is whether or not fuel is going into the head; I would assume no, otherwise it would be doing that anyways, but you never know.

Turns out my ITFP might be shitting the bed; P0091 MAZDA - Fuel Pressure Regulator Solenoid 1 Control Circit Low Voltage.

[Mizzle]

Get that one that fits that's in that other thread I saw the other day.

...lol

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Mizzle ... E47.2

Pump gas is E10 here in IL.

6 * 0.90 + 7 * 0.15 = 6.45 gallons gas

6 * 0.10 + 7 * 0.85 = 6.55 gallons Ethanol

E50.4


Tapadatass

[Mizzle]

haha

I think only the one pump here uses E15, but I was just busting your balls.
It's so fucked that we look into this shit LOL

Fuck I wish we had B85.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome I'm groaning the next fucker who asks. Once Enki's back up and healthy hopefully this will go somewhere.

Why did...

J/k. Anyhow, I see the Dexos info and PP 5w30 is listed. Were all of the guys who were running 100% e85 running rotella?

[silvapain]

I'm on Rotella still.


Tapadatass

[Enki]

Except for GB, yeah. He didn't have issues on Royal Purple other than questionable test results.

[phate]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Why did... J/k. Anyhow, I see the Dexos info and PP 5w30 is listed. Were all of the guys who were running 100% e85 running rotella?

lol, great minds think alike!

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

@rfinkle2 I started having issue's when I switched to Rotella

[that1rowdyracer]

I am really surprised that none of you use Pennzoil plat, I know its one of the best for fuel dilution which seams like that would help with this issue, plus its not super expensive

[dot584]

Originally Posted by Enki I've been reading up on these flex fuel oils/additives. It seems they all pertain to the formation of acids due to water content in the fuel.

I havent read the entire thread but this seemed to stick out to me. When you did your boil test the water content probably evaporated out before it could form any acids. You said there was still black stuff just not sticky. The water boiling out could be the reason. The water for the sticky, the ethanol for the black stuff, maybe you need both for sticky black death. In the pump it would get hot but since there is no place for water vapors to go it combines with the black stuff and gunks up the pump.

I feel very scientific for posting in this thread lolz. This is just a guess.

[Mizzle]

Makes sense.
Put a Pyrex cup/baking bowl/etc. on top of the hot plate?

[Enki]

Seriously doubt there was any water content; the fuel was sitting in a sealed (air tight) container prior to use; also there was no black stuff (at all) and no sticky until I boiled eth with some oil in it.

[raptorous_g4]

My fix so far..

I took my spill valve apart busted out the Dremel some polishing compound polished anything that looked like it moved to a mirror finish. Took a bic pen spring and cut it slightly longer than the stock spring and put it inside the stock spring sort of like the dual spring on a greddy type s BOV. I am russing 100% e85 and 8 OZ of MMO each fill up and have had zero issues for 3 tank fulls so far. Before modding the spring and polishing parts I was getting FP drop to 60 PSI on initial start after a night of sitting.

Hope this helps.

[Enki]

What oil do you use?

[raptorous_g4]

Originally Posted by Enki What oil do you use?

Rotella T6... I do need a change in under 1000 miles may try something else since it seems to be causing some issues for others.

[Enki]

Actually I think you should stick with it. If everyone but you is having issues on the T6, then what better way to prove your changes work?

[raptorous_g4]

Originally Posted by Enki Actually I think you should stick with it. If everyone but you is having issues on the T6, then what better way to prove your changes work?

Ill stick it out and wait to see what happens after a few more tanks. I drive 300+ miles a week so I go through tanks quick. Polishing was super easy I should have took some pics. I might pull it apart to see if its getting coated again and post some up tomorrow. If I don't blow the motor tonight on the SPICY tune lol...

[Enki]

You won't blow on pure e, even if your pressure tanks. Just won't happen bud.

[mazdafreak]

Anyone switch to Valvoline VR1 oil?? I'm willing to try it out once I switch to full 85 again in next week or so....or should I still run t6?

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Anyone switch to Valvoline VR1 oil?? I'm willing to try it out once I switch to full 85 again in next week or so....or should I still run t6?

it's the saphire blue REAL synthetic oil...

racing oil

I used it one oil change.... the car ran great and the oil was still clearish 3500 miles later when I tried yet another oil.

my car is a name brand oil whore, as of now I've been using and sticking with the Rotella T6. love it

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by raptorous_g4 My fix so far.. I took my spill valve apart busted out the Dremel some polishing compound polished anything that looked like it moved to a mirror finish. Took a bic pen spring and cut it slightly longer than the stock spring and put it inside the stock spring sort of like the dual spring on a greddy type s BOV. I am russing 100% e85 and 8 OZ of MMO each fill up and have had zero issues for 3 tank fulls so far. Before modding the spring and polishing parts I was getting FP drop to 60 PSI on initial start after a night of sitting. Hope this helps.

How does the rest of the pump look? I don't get FP loss near as much as other guys but I get a fuck ton of black death in the pump, and my guess is this is a FP fix not black gunk fix.

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Anyone switch to Valvoline VR1 oil?? I'm willing to try it out once I switch to full 85 again in next week or so....or should I still run t6?

I just put the VR1 10w-30 Racing Synthetic in mine last oil change. As @SpeedSixxx said it is blue, which tripped me out when I first saw it.

I'm not sure how soon I will be swapping over to E85 though as I am sending in my HPFP internals for warranty work.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO How does the rest of the pump look? I don't get FP loss near as much as other guys but I get a fuck ton of black death in the pump, and my guess is this is a FP fix not black gunk fix. I just put the VR1 10w-30 Racing Synthetic in mine last oil change. As @SpeedSixxx said it is blue, which tripped me out when I first saw it. I'm not sure how soon I will be swapping over to E85 though as I am sending in my HPFP internals for warranty work.

I called Valvoline up about that oil and did my research..

to this day it's prob one of the best oils iv'e used...

as stated after 3500 miles the oil was still clean and not once did the motor feel rough.

Mobil one syn after 2200 miles the ride is rough...

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx I called Valvoline up about that oil and did my research.. to this day it's prob one of the best oils iv'e used... as stated after 3500 miles the oil was still clean and not once did the motor feel rough. Mobil one syn after 2200 miles the ride is rough...

I'm super excited about it, my only wish was that I was running E85 currently.

[mazdafreak]

Yeah, I'm gonna change to vr1 this week and see what happens on full 85... Won't be on it till the 21st, since thats when the rest of my mods are going on.


Is 10w30 gonna be good?

[Enki]

I just did internals for a genpu on Saturday and the pump was fucking pristine. 30k some miles, pump gas and Rotella T6.

*Shrug*

[mazdafreak]

^^that's how mine was on 93 too.......and it was even clean with 85, just like thick oil build up on internal shaft or w.e it is tho.

I'm gonna switch to vr1 and see what happens.

[SofaKingAwesome]

What weight are you guys going to try w/ the VR1?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Mazda Baiter What weight are you guys going to try w/ the VR1?

I'm retarded, don't mind me.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Mazda Baiter What weight are you guys going to try w/ the VR1?

I would try 5W-30 or 5W-40 if they have it. If not, I would do a 10W-40, but only for the summer. A 10 weight oil is too thick for our engine tolerances when really cold.


Tapadatass

[SofaKingAwesome]

Originally Posted by phate I'm retarded, don't mind me.

I cracked up when I read it, figured someone would catch it eventually

Originally Posted by silvapain I would try 5W-30 or 5W-40 if they have it. If not, I would do a 10W-40, but only for the summer. A 10 weight oil is too thick for our engine tolerances when really cold. Tapadatass

I've alsways ran 5w-30 year round here, but might try the 10 for the summer this year since it'll be hot as balls in about 3 weeks.
Thanks

[silvapain]

Here is some nice information on determining the proper oil viscosity with respect to ambient temperature:

Engine & Gear Oil - Temperature and Viscosity Limits




Edit: I should add that this table does not take into account engine bearing tolerances. I would run 1 weight lighter than that table for the MS3/6.

[SofaKingAwesome]

learn something new everyday, thanks for the reference

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Synthetic vr1 only comes in 10w-30 and 20w-50. Currently running the 10w-30 in mine.

On another note, I ran about 5gal of e but i have stock internals in so I can warranty my autotechs so I only went WOT a couple times, but when I pulled the spill valve after those 5 gal it was pristine. Hopefully will have one of my sets of upgraded internals back soon

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[Enki]

It's generally the internals that get nasty with black death quickly, and only at > 50% e mixes (with pure being the worst). I'd be interested in seeing how your pump looks when you get your internals back.

[mazdafreak]

So you think 10w30 is gonna be to thick for the ms3?? I wanted to run the vr1 oil and test it with full 85.


Might have to change it up then.....its not that hot yet here for that thicker oil.......hmmm.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki It's generally the internals that get nasty with black death quickly, and only at > 50% e mixes (with pure being the worst). I'd be interested in seeing how your pump looks when you get your internals back.

Let me clarify, 5 gal of e85 with no 93 mixed in. I just knew the stock cdfp internals wouldn't like it so I didn't fill ip. Also even if there wasn't a ton of black death on spill valve(which usually there was) it was never been pristine clean. It looked like a coors light can it was that clean.

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