Resolving HPFP corn woes (black death/sticking spill valve)

[ak_spray]

I just read through this thread a lot of good info and I'd like to thank everyone one that added their two cents.

I have a question not sure if it would help. From work I know an Amsoil oil rep and he seems to know quite a bit about oil. Would someone like that help out the situation with the oil. Would there be any questions I could run by him that might help the cause?

Like I said not sure how much that would help but thought I'd throw it out there and I wanted to sub this thread.

[Enki]

The current situation with the pumps is likely not a situation anyone has EVER accounted for before.

"What happens to the oil if it's completely diluted in fuel and heated to 230 degrees or so?"

The answer in my mind would be "You have a serious issue if the oil is completely diluted in fuel."

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

So 3 and a half tanks on the VR1 and no issue's as of yet. Debating on pulling the pump tonight or waiting another 300 miles when I'm at about 1k miles. Fuel pressure is holding great, better then it has in a long time. Oh and I didn't warranty the autotechs, only because the stock internals I put in were scaring me even more, so I figured I'd wait until I got my extra set of upgraded ones back from injector rx. Since I put the autotechs back in though I have had zero issues.

[Enki]

Might as well wait and let it get worse (if it's even getting nasty in there).

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki Might as well wait and let it get worse (if it's even getting nasty in there).

Well I start leave tomorrow so the car will be getting a lot of down time and love. Just finished the forth tank tonight which makes it between 800-900 miles since I aver average about 200-225 a tank. Honestly it's hard to say, The lowest I see fuel pressure at wot is a couple of small dips into the 1600's and normal cruising it seems fine.

[mrmonk7663]

Pull that biatch and lets see what's up.

[silvapain]

I say run it until the spill valve sticks.


Tapadatass

[mazdafreak]

Well i replaced my injector seals last night....got a chance to look at the injectors and shit, and my stock seals were all junked up.....idk if that normal or from running full e85 before for around ~5000 miles.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

So before you read any further I am not saying this is an end all be all solution to the problem. This is 1 car, 1 pump, 1k-1100 miles. Once more people have tried different oils or the same I am currently running, there are more positive results, and nothing changes for me in the next 10k miles, then I would say oil choice is a must do for positive results. That being said on to the rest....

Pulled the pump today since I finished out the 5th tank since swapping back to 100% E85. I was unbelievably amazed at how good everything looked. Actually I had pump, high pressure line, and HPRV out, and they all looked good. Didn't take pics of anything but the pump though. The only spots with any "black death" were little bit around the shaft collar, and a little on the outside of the piston as you can see in the pics. That was it, the rest didn't even have the brown film I got when I initially swapped to E85. Somehow with the flash from the camera the wear spots look brown, but I couldn't get them to wipe off. And on to the pics....

Edit: Just to clarify, I did not even attempt to clean anything before these pictures. The black gunk seen in the places I mentioned early was sticky and was the normal black death, but you can see just how much of that there was.

[mazdafreak]

Damn! Good info....ill be switching to vr1 tonight when I switch to full 85....hopefully with positive results too.



But can someone tell me how to pull the pump so easily without taking the battery and intake and all that shit off??!! @GLORIFIEDBOZO @phate

[Enki]

Great info, but you might want to remind us all how it was before the switch.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Damn! Good info....ill be switching to vr1 tonight when I switch to full 85....hopefully with positive results too. But can someone tell me how to pull the pump so easily without taking the battery and intake and all that shit off??!! @GLORIFIEDBOZO @phate

If the valve cover vent line still goes to the intake up by the MAF, take it off. If you have a TMIC, remove the shield/cover. Unclip the large vacuum line from the intake to the firewall, and sift it towards the ECU. Disconnect the two soft fuel lines and the bottom hard fuel line to the pump, and then use an E8 socket to remove the three bolts that hold the pump onto the head. Then just slide the pump back and up out of the engine bay.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by silvapain If the valve cover vent line still goes to the intake up by the MAF, take it off. If you have a TMIC, remove the shield/cover. Unclip the large vacuum line from the intake to the firewall, and sift it towards the ECU. Disconnect the two soft fuel lines and the bottom hard fuel line to the pump, and then use an E8 socket to remove the three bolts that hold the pump onto the head. Then just slide the pump back and up out of the engine bay.

Well i meant more, how do u take the hard line off from under pump....u guys use a stubby open-end.wrench??

Cause it doesn't look like much more under the pump to take hard line off unless u take battery and inlet off.

[phate]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Well i meant more, how do u take the hard line off from under pump....u guys use a stubby open-end.wrench?? Cause it doesn't look like much more under the pump to take hard line off unless u take battery and inlet off.

Use a normal 17mm open end. It will be almost vertical when seated on the nut, but it works fine.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by phate Use a normal 17mm open end. It will be almost vertical when seated on the nut, but it works fine.

The nut on the hard line is 19mm I believe.

Oh, and put some electrical tape or a ziptie on that hard line below the nut. If you don't, that nut has a tendency to slide down between the block and transmission, and it's a real bitch to fish it back up.


Tapadatass

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by phate Use a normal 17mm open end. It will be almost vertical when seated on the nut, but it works fine.

Ahh okay thanks! Do u also use the 19mm or w.e size it is to hold the other nut in place on the actual fuel pump? Cause I hear of the nut on the fuel pump spins, its bad...?

Originally Posted by silvapain The nut on the hard line is 19mm I believe. Oh, and put some electrical tape or a ziptie on that hard line below the nut. If you don't, that nut has a tendency to slide down between the block and transmission, and it's a real bitch to fish it back up. Tapadatass

Yeah I knew that....I have pulled my pump like 15 times already....but I wanted to kno how u guys actually pulled the pump without having to take the battery/battery box and intake/inlet off....this.will save me a lot more time now! Thanks guys.


P.s-last question, best way to clean the pump of the sticky oil?? I kno non-chlorided or w.e brake cleaner....but u guys scrub with towel or what?

[Enki]

Use lighter fluid (naphtha) and a lint free rag or paper towel.

[silvapain]

I use gasoline, as I don't have lighter fluid. Works fine.

Edit: I use Q-tips soaked in gas. Learned it from @phate.

If the check valve spins (the part the hard line but threads into), then use a small dab of threadlock on it when you thread it back into the pump housing.

Tapadatass

[bieberhole69]

During all these test, jumping from full 85 to just regular pump, are you keeping the same tune? I would assume not?


Sent from me using Tapshoes

[Enki]

Originally Posted by dlindberg2nd During all these test, jumping from full 85 to just regular pump, are you keeping the same tune? I would assume not? Sent from me using Tapshoes

Running pump gas on an e tune would result in a car that doesn't run.

[phate]

Originally Posted by dlindberg2nd During all these test, jumping from full 85 to just regular pump, are you keeping the same tune? I would assume not?

Originally Posted by Enki Running pump gas on an e tune would result in a car that doesn't run.

To say the least. An almost instant cylinder windowing experience would probably occur

[Enki]

Nah, I just don't think it would idle at all with a 9.5:1 fuel ratio. Lmao

[mrmonk7663]

And 21 degrees of timing...

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by Enki Great info, but you might want to remind us all how it was before the switch.

Thank you sir. I only have a couple pics I could find and only of the collar, but this was before...

[Bucker]

Just a note, I do run my 50/50 mix tune on 93 from time to time with no major adverse effects.

[Enki]

I picked up 8 qts of 10w 30 VR1 full synth while I was out today, gonna oil change probably tomorrow and then start runnin the corn again.

Oddly though, the retaining nut from the used pump I bought seems to be holding the oil out pretty good; was pretty damn clean in there when I last checked. Worst case, the scraper setup will fix it even if the oil change doesn't.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Enki I picked up 8 qts of 10w 30 VR1 full synth while I was out today, gonna oil change probably tomorrow and then start runnin the corn again. Oddly though, the retaining nut from the used pump I bought seems to be holding the oil out pretty good; was pretty damn clean in there when I last checked. Worst case, the scraper setup will fix it even if the oil change doesn't.

That's what I just picked up! but, 7 qts lol......I'm going to change oil tomorrow...just did the switch to full 85 today tho...I still have t6 in my car, we'll see if spill valve takes a shit before the oil switch.


I had to go to 5 different stores for this damn oil.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak That's what I just picked up! but, 7 qts lol......I'm going to change oil tomorrow...just did the switch to full 85 today tho...I still have t6 in my car, we'll see if spill valve takes a shit before the oil switch. I had to go to 5 different stores for this damn oil.

Lol, I only checked Autozone, but out of the 5 in town only one had it. Oh and it was on sale for $5 a quart at the time

[silvapain]

Advance Auto carries VR1 in my town.


Tapadatass

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO Lol, I only checked Autozone, but out of the 5 in town only one had it. Oh and it was on sale for $5 a quart at the time

That's who I checked, they all said they had it, when I showed up, they didn't...I hate dealing with fucking idiots at autozone and shit...they don't know anything.

But I got mine for o'reiliys for $6.99 on sale....it was 8.99.

[jdeves]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak That's who I checked, they all said they had it, when I showed up, they didn't...I hate dealing with fucking idiots at autozone and shit...they don't know anything. But I got mine for o'reiliys for $6.99 on sale....it was 8.99.

Damn this is expensive oil! I'm really excited about the possibility of it being a solution to the black death though.

[Enki]

Back on e85, fuel trims are -1 ltft and -2 stft @ idle on the map after settling. I have *NOT* changed oils yet and I'm currently hitting ITFP pressure unless I rev it a little, which means I have one or more of the "deaths."

I'm going to pull the pump in the next few days and do an oil change as well, and will be able to report back pretty quickly how the car acts.

It's also worth noting that on the way to the gas station my WOT fuel pressure gave out again; the possible causes being the car is eating spill valves somehow or there's a fundamental problem with the internals that I have yet to notice/find or my PRV is actually dying.

[mazdafreak]

Just made the switch to vr1 10w30 tonight.....been on full 85 again for ~80 miles, but that was with t6, no problems yet....I'm gonna pull the pump and clean Friday and see if any problems happen with the vr1 oil.

[jdeves]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak Just made the switch to vr1 10w30 tonight.....been on full 85 again for ~80 miles, but that was with t6, no problems yet....I'm gonna pull the pump and clean Friday and see if any problems happen with the vr1 oil.

Valvoline suddenly notices a large uptick in sales of VR1 10w-30 due to every mazda owner switching over.

[mazdafreak]

About 300 miles on the vr1 racing oil and 100% 85 and not a problem yet......did a shit ton of stop and go traffic, boosting a lot and lil highway driving to work 30 miles there and back.

I did clean the spill valve just incase before I got on the dyno on Saturday, but even when I pulled it, i didn't see any build up or oil build up shit....the 2 tiny springs had no sticky feeling when compressed.

I'll pull the pump and check for 'black death' once the spill valve/fuel pressure drops.


@GLORIFIEDBOZO- how do u take apart the whole spill valve? I'm too scared too fuck it up...all i do is take apart the top part off with the horse shoe looking thing and spring and mini shaft like thing lol....is there a way to take apart the whole spill valve??

[dantes5823]

Subbed for results. I ran about 3 or 4 tanks of 50/50 and no problems with the T6 oil. But if this vr1 stuff works out then ill just swap over next change just for peace of mind. I really dont feel like pulling my pump. i guess ill log from time to time. I wouldnt mind running these insane boost levels on the k04 lol.

[shawn.]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 Subbed for results. I ran about 3 or 4 tanks of 50/50 and no problems with the T6 oil. But if this vr1 stuff works out then ill just swap over next change just for peace of mind. I really dont feel like pulling my pump. i guess ill log from time to time. I wouldnt mind running these insane boost levels on the k04 lol.

you shouldn't see any problems running 50/50 mix. only when running full e85 will they start to show up.

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by shawn. you shouldn't see any problems running 50/50 mix. only when running full e85 will they start to show up.

So full E is when the sensors take a shit and the pump offs itself? Im tempted to run a full tank and see what i can crank out of this thing. but im not seeing the trade off being worth it. I already roast the tires as it is. I figure im already at ~315whp. Mayyyybeeee crank out another 10ish maybe? Now if the vr1 solves the pump issue then i wouldnt mind it. But then that leaves the fuel sensor issue, and i like knowing my gas level.

[Enki]

4.5 gallons in and spill valve went out three times total (with sticky). Still need to pull the pump and make sure the internals aren't crusted up with black death; topped off the tank and went back to the 50/50 tune (even though running a ~57% mix right now) and pressure has not fully returned.

Also noticed my oil pressure spikes and stabilizes randomly even when holding constant rpm; wondering if there's some leftover t6 in there getting in the way.

There shouldn't be though, as I let the car sit for two days before draining the oil to the point where it sat for 30 minutes dripping single droplets once every 10-15 seconds, and the oil filter was changed in the same manner (letting it run out of oil).

Dunno, maybe it is the fuel causing the sticky; only way I'll know for sure is when the parts come in from JBR and I mod my pump further.

[09speedaddict]

Tons of great info guys. Thanks