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 Old 03-24-2016, 07:50 AM   #1
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Default SWAS issues

It happens, almost without fail, in big left handed turns where I'm straightening out and going full throttle. The 'Disable Torque Limiter' toggle is checked. I've attached logs, but here's a couple screenshots of the issue.





I've attached my tune file and 3 logs. The particular ranges I'm looking at in each of the logs:

1_31_57: 142-144s
1_38_58: 712-715
1_55_31: 732-754


@Steve@VersaTune;
@Ugnius@VersaTune;

I don't see anything in the tune that would cause it, so I'm curious what you guys think. Thanks for all your help!
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File Type: rar phate20160319_SWAS.rar (244.5 KB, 5 views)
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 Old 03-24-2016, 02:32 PM   #2
 
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Default

I've experienced this too, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned before as well. Since the SWAS disable doesn't 100% work I still use the SWAS disable switch unfortunately.

Here's the link and also, when I was testing I had semi slick track tires which didn't slip: 2011 SWAS Issue

Oh, I also think you need to push the "DSC Off" button in the car so DSC isn't interfering. Try pushing that button and then taking logs to see if that helps. I know for me it didn't as I had my AFR's dip into the 9's and you can feel SWAS affecting things.
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 Old 03-24-2016, 02:49 PM   #3
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DSC is most definitely always off, so not a worry about that. The SWAS sensor in ms6's controls part of the awd system. Unhooking it disables awd, so that's out of the question.
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 Old 03-25-2016, 04:26 PM   #4
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The ECU is definitely pissed off. It fuel cut at 142.626s in 1_31_57. RPMs are up and down. Were you spinning an inside wheel?

edit: same thing in 1_38_58. Sharp rpm rise then fuel cut.

Could also be a lateral G force limit induced torque reduction by the DSC module that the button doesn't mask.
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 Old 03-25-2016, 05:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune View Post
The ECU is definitely pissed off. It fuel cut at 142.626s in 1_31_57. RPMs are up and down. Were you spinning an inside wheel?

edit: same thing in 1_38_58. Sharp rpm rise then fuel cut.

Could also be a lateral G force limit induced torque reduction by the DSC module that the button doesn't mask.
We may have occasionally spun an inside tire, but not every time. Sometimes I'll just wait until the wheel is nearly straight to apply more throttle, and it will still cut with throttle application.

We pull over 1g lateral, and it only happens after sustained cornering, not after quick maneuvers. All of my videos from Saturday were corrupt, so I don't have a good example (you can hear the car pop and stutter when it happens). If it is g-force induced, is there any hope of it getting tuned out?
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 Old 03-25-2016, 05:51 PM   #6
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I'm looking at it. I have an idea that I need to do some testing with.
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 Old 03-25-2016, 06:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune View Post
I'm looking at it. I have an idea that I need to do some testing with.
Awesome, thanks. We autocross every 2 weeks or so during the season, so if you need testing done I can help with whatever you need.
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 Old 03-28-2016, 05:54 AM   #8

 
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Leave it to phate to find a lateral G force limit.

In for testing if you need/want/would like a second car.
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 Old 03-28-2016, 06:27 AM   #9
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 Old 03-30-2016, 10:05 AM   #10
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We're autocrossing on Sunday, again. Steve, if you would like us to try anything or capture anything specific in the data, let us know and we'll do it! I'll have my accelerometer logging this time around, so that data should be available, too.
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 Old 03-30-2016, 10:20 AM   #11
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Working on a new build for you with some new tables.
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 Old 04-01-2016, 05:17 AM   #12
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Sent you a link to a new VT to test. Check your spam folder if you don't see it.
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 Old 04-03-2016, 09:15 PM   #13
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Any improvement?
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 Old 04-04-2016, 06:42 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune View Post
Any improvement?
No, still cutting after long left handers. I'll send (or post) data logs and the tune file for you guys to check out. Long day yesterday, still went fast enough to take the class
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 Old 04-04-2016, 08:22 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Steve@VersaTune View Post
Any improvement?
I've attached all of the logs from Sunday. Here's the summary (included in the .rar):



Essentially, I took anything and everything that might be causing an issue out of the tune. Tune file included, please let me know if I missed any tables that you were thinking of.

You can see and hear in this video around 32s where it happens after the big left hander:

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File Type: rar 20160403 Autocross.rar (824.8 KB, 13 views)
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 Old 04-04-2016, 08:34 PM   #16

 
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Christ almighty.
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 Old 04-05-2016, 03:26 AM   #17
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Off topic: The video log looks cool. What software / hardware is this?
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 Old 04-05-2016, 06:13 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by KCi View Post
Off topic: The video log looks cool. What software / hardware is this?
Race Render 3 is the video software. It can handle time based data, so data logs are perfect to overlay. In my case, I have a GoPro taking video, VT logs exported to CSV format, and a GCDC 3-axis 2g accelerometer for the G-G plot (smoothed from 128Hz sample rate in this case).
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 Old 04-05-2016, 01:48 PM   #19
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@mazdakaps you might need to download it again
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Lol how did this happen? I only download it once. Oh well!!!
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 Old 04-06-2016, 08:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by mazdakaps View Post
Lol how did this happen? I only download it once. Oh well!!!
If the downloader uses multi-threading to increase downloads, it'll appears as a another download for each connection.

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 Old 04-08-2016, 12:56 PM   #22

 
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@Steve@VersaTune;
Weather depending, racing this weekend. Anything specific you want to see? Will attempt phate type log, but...slower.
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 Old 04-08-2016, 01:27 PM   #23
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Nothing right now. I am still looking. Thanks for the offer.

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 Old 04-11-2016, 09:24 PM   #24
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@xfeejayx, have you gotten any cuts in either of the 6's?

@Steve@VersaTune, I'll be autocrossing again this coming Sunday, do you want me to test any tables or grab different fields in the data logs?
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 Old 04-12-2016, 03:59 AM   #25

 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
@xfeejayx, have you gotten any cuts in either of the 6's?

@Steve@VersaTune, I'll be autocrossing again this coming Sunday, do you want me to test any tables or grab different fields in the data logs?
Hadn't been looking. Was going to look specifically for it this past weekend, but got rained out.

Have an ax Saturday, and potentially one Sunday.

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 Old 04-12-2016, 11:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
@Steve@VersaTune, I'll be autocrossing again this coming Sunday, do you want me to test any tables or grab different fields in the data logs?
A beta is in the works. Should have something to you shortly.
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 Old 04-19-2016, 09:10 AM   #27
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May have found the culprit and might owe the VT guys some beers for creating extra work. I popped a P2088 code a few weeks ago, but cleared it because it was pretty random. It came back after the car was cutting especially hard this weekend, so thought I better check it out...







I'll repin tonight and see how it goes.
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 Old 04-19-2016, 10:13 AM   #28

 
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Just checked our logs from the weekend. No RTP reduction below 6k; slaloms, sweepers, whatever. I imagine this will address your issue.

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 Old 04-20-2016, 04:12 PM   #29
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I reworked that connector and the car is pulling cleanly now in straight lines. Dragon this weekend, then another autocross the weekend after. I'm going to revert back to the current public release of VT and my old tune to test things out. Hopefully everything is fixed!
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 Old 05-02-2016, 11:24 AM   #30
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I won't call yesterday's event conclusive, because there weren't any long left handers. But, the car pulled cleanly every time we asked for it

Next event in 2 weeks.
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 Old 05-03-2016, 12:49 PM   #31
 
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Shouldn't you be Skyping with Fiat right now??
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 Old 05-03-2016, 12:56 PM   #32
 
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I get this cut-off on sweeping turns on power as well.

I haven't done this, but I've heard you have to completely disable the SWAS sensor which is under the steering column but you need to remove all the shrouding to get to it.

What I've done is on startup hold the DSC button and that will disable both DSC and Traction Control. I've gotten good results this way, but you have to be careful of lift-off oversteer!
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 Old 05-03-2016, 01:12 PM   #33

 
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Originally Posted by c_bye View Post
I get this cut-off on sweeping turns on power as well.

I haven't done this, but I've heard you have to completely disable the SWAS sensor which is under the steering column but you need to remove all the shrouding to get to it.

What I've done is on startup hold the DSC button and that will disable both DSC and Traction Control. I've gotten good results this way, but you have to be careful of lift-off oversteer!
You're likely just getting traction/stability control action mid corner when DSC is on. Most people probably don't even know what SWAS cut feels like. It's like turbo lag more than cut.

Don't have to hold button on MS6, just tap it. It does NOT disable SWAS cut.

Disabling that sensor does more than just disable SWAS, I think.

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 Old 05-03-2016, 02:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by MSP6 View Post
Shouldn't you be Skyping with Fiat right now??
Done!

Originally Posted by c_bye View Post
I get this cut-off on sweeping turns on power as well.

I haven't done this, but I've heard you have to completely disable the SWAS sensor which is under the steering column but you need to remove all the shrouding to get to it.

What I've done is on startup hold the DSC button and that will disable both DSC and Traction Control. I've gotten good results this way, but you have to be careful of lift-off oversteer!
Check here. MS6 is a little different.
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 Old 05-03-2016, 03:42 PM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
Done!



Check here. MS6 is a little different.
Ah I see, disregard what I said before then. I can only speak for the MS3.
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 Old 05-03-2016, 03:54 PM   #36
 
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My 2011 MS3 suffers from powerless mid corner (rich AFR's and little power), once I straighten the wheel out I feel full power. I then disable my SWAS with the switch I wired in and the powerloss no longer happens.
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 Old 05-03-2016, 04:33 PM   #37

 
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Originally Posted by c_bye View Post
Ah I see, disregard what I said before then. I can only speak for the MS3.
From what I remember, holding the button only turns on the lights for testing and doesn't actually fully disable anything. I've had my light come on simply because I hit the button too fast after starting it, no holding needed. Car didn't behave any differently either.
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 Old 05-03-2016, 05:00 PM   #38
 
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Originally Posted by Enki View Post
From what I remember, holding the button only turns on the lights for testing and doesn't actually fully disable anything. I've had my light come on simply because I hit the button too fast after starting it, no holding needed. Car didn't behave any differently either.
Right, like I said you have to physically unplug it under the dash for it to actually disable.

It was probably just me, but I did notice the back end stepping out a bit more on track than with both DSC off and traction control light on.
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 Old 05-24-2016, 08:49 AM   #39
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No dice on the connector being the culprit. I flashed back to the pre-beta tune and autocrossed yesterday with a HUGE nascar style left handed oval. After straightening out into the next section, the car cut out just like it used to.

I'll work back through to see if I can find a fix. I'll start with the tables that became available in 1.10.11, then move to the tables available in 1.10.13.


Video of the course. Too much wind noise to hear the cut, this time.

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File Type: jpg Fuel Cut.jpg (275.0 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Fuel Cut2.jpg (288.3 KB, 17 views)
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File Type: zip VersaTuner Logs20160522.zip (148.3 KB, 0 views)
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 Old 05-25-2016, 05:18 AM   #40

 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
No dice on the connector being the culprit. I flashed back to the pre-beta tune and autocrossed yesterday with a HUGE nascar style left handed oval. After straightening out into the next section, the car cut out just like it used to.

I'll work back through to see if I can find a fix. I'll start with the tables that became available in 1.10.11, then move to the tables available in 1.10.13.


Video of the course. Too much wind noise to hear the cut, this time.

http://youtu.be/MuFV8qb6Ohk
I briefly looked at the logs from our last ax, didn't see any cut after the left sweeper. Will go through them in more detail.

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