MAF calibrations for bigger intakes

[Lex]

If we find someone with no surge ports and the HTP 4" intake then we will get an answer surrounding the surge ports vs the intake design itself.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Lex If we find someone with no surge ports and the HTP 4" intake then we will get an answer surrounding the surge ports vs the intake design itself.

I'm installing one next weekend if no one gets around to it first, My old gt3071r, no surge porting and HTP 4". @rfinkle2; that actually seems to make some sense ...

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Indeed i do, and no substantial issues on the 6. My BW s300sx has surge ports too, but they are very very minimal. I'm currently installing a 35r on the 6 now, so we'll see if anything changes.

No rich spikes at all?
You are not running a MAF screen right? Might have to try taking mine out see if it helps.
Oh and apropos nothing at all why change terboh? If you do a TS manifold for the 35 I hope you jig it. I wantz TS for long time meow.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Tomas Alex, the bucking is only during very light load conditions. During WOT pulls everything is fine. Unless you disagree I'd say this is not BPV related. Besides, the BPV reciird tube into the intake is about 10" to 12" downstream from the MAF sensor. Attached two logs. One with fairly horrible bucking and other less pronounced due to slower throttle modulation. Unfortunately I don't have LTFTs on it. Forgot to add that back on to the log list but will take another log with it today. Attachment 98934 Attachment 98935

Tomas, what are your closed loop exit delays set to?

Also, what size throttle body are you running in your car?

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Tomas No rich spikes at all? You are not running a MAF screen right? Might have to try taking mine out see if it helps. Oh and apropos nothing at all why change terboh? If you do a TS manifold for the 35 I hope you jig it. I wantz TS for long time meow.

I surged the BW a couple times really good, and the bearings started to fail. I pulled it off a couple weeks ago to take measurements, and there is quite a bit of shaft play. I've had a 35r on the shelf for almost a year now, and want to play with something that spools a bit faster. I'll run it as a standard 35r and then get the HTA treatment to compare.

I'll replace the bearings on the BW and probably sell it with my manifold, a down pipe (new) and dump tubes at some point. Then build a new long tube mani after relocating the alternator. Probably months til all that shit is done though, so, i'll just enjoy the 35r for now.

[Ziggo]

Did somebody say TS T3 gtx3576?

I thought I smelled win.

Zigatapatalka

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Tomas, what are your closed loop exit delays set to? Also, what size throttle body are you running in your car?

Rob,
Fuck now you gave me something else to wonder about. You instigator you.
They are set to A 15 and B and C to 30

Stock TB right now. That god damn bigger TB was another fail project I was never really able to get to work smoothly. I must have adjusted the throtle blade screws on both ends over 80 times and it never really ran like stock. I am not one to give up easily however so that fucker will go back in some day. Shit, I can only imagine how the car would run with the 4" intake and the bigger TB. It would probably literally ram my dentures into the steering wheel on every gear change.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Tomas Rob, Fuck now you gave me something else to wonder about. You instigator you. They are set to A 15 and B and C to 30 Stock TB right now. That god damn bigger TB was another fail project I was never really able to get to work smoothly. I must have adjusted the throtle blade screws on both ends over 80 times and it never really ran like stock. I am not one to give up easily however so that fucker will go back in some day. Shit, I can only imagine how the car would run with the 4" intake and the bigger TB. It would probably literally ram my dentures into the steering wheel on every gear change.

LOL. You crack me up Tomas. Always make me have a good laugh.

I don't think it is your issue, but setting your A, B and C tables to 10 may help.

I'm interested to see how this finally gets worked out.

[Tomas]

I am ready for teh buttseckz when you are.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Tomas I am ready for the buttseckz when you are.

Is there room for one more?

[Lex]

I doubt exit delays are going to help here. Anyone with the htp 4 run smoothly?

[Tomas]

We can triangulate you in.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Lex I doubt exit delays are going to help here. Anyone with the htp 4 run smoothly?

Geez Lex, it was just a thought. Sorry to interrupt your teaching session.

Yes to someone running the 4" intake smoothly and we were talking about it in his thread until you asked the discussion be moved here.

Smoogs' car is running well with the 4" intake.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Geez Lex, it was just a thought. Sorry to interrupt your teaching session. Yes to someone running the 4" intake smoothly and we were talking about it in his thread until you asked the discussion be moved here. Smoogs' car is running well with the 4" intake.

So was mine.

@smoogs12; what's your car setup in terms of intake, turbo housing (surge ports, no surge ports) BPV, and how it runs when shifting and letting off the throttle? Any surging or bucking? Do you have a log of shifting at low loads?

[Boosted Beluga]

I'm experiencing bucking at low loads/rpms with the 3.5" htp intake and stock turbo. I think it's cuz I have a exhaustl eak at the mani tho.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh) I'm experiencing bucking at low loads/rpms with the 3.5" htp intake and stock turbo. I think it's cuz I have a exhaustl eak at the mani tho.

It's possible. The WBO2 can be fooled into thinking you are running lean and then cause the car to run richer. That being said it should not buck. Also when you have throttle transitions such as during shifting the ECU does not use the WBO2 and this points more to MAF sensor turbulence. Post up a log.

[Deldran]

Just an FYI.

Due to all this new discussion I decided I would watch my afrs when I let off the throttle and when I push the clutch in. In both instances AFR goes to about 13.5 then drops down to the normal 29.

I am curious if this is part of the reason I feel a slight hesitation between shifts.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by Lex So was mine. @smoogs12; what's your car setup in terms of intake, turbo housing (surge ports, no surge ports) BPV, and how it runs when shifting and letting off the throttle? Any surging or bucking? Do you have a log of shifting at low loads?

Intake-HTP 4"
Turbo housing- No surge ports
Still running stock bpv

No surging or bucking. I'm not sure if I have a log, but I could take one if you were interested.

[Etipp98]

Htp 4" here with surge ports and synapse dv. No bucking or surging whatsoever. I'll try to get some logs as well.

[Lex]

The guys that have no issues, get a log just normal everyday shifting. Doesn't have to be WOT but use the WOT parameters:

Accel. Pedal Pos.
Actual AFR
Boost
Boosted Air Temp
Calculated Load
Coolant Temp
Engine Speed (RPM)
HPFP Actual Pressure
Injector Duty Cycle
Intake Temp
Intake Valve Adv.
Knock Retard
Long Term FT (LTFT)
MAF Voltage
Mass Airflow
Spark Advance
Throttle Position
Vehicle Speed
Wastegate Duty Cycle

@Etipp98; @smoogs12; @Tomas; get a picture of your honey comb looking straight into the intake if possible. Also post an engine bay shot.

[Ziggo]

Might be helpful to post an engine bay shot too. Air movement within the bay could impact this as well.

Zigatapatalka

[Boosted Beluga]

@Lex; here is my intake. I can get a different shot if needed. I just have this one in my phone.

[Boosted Beluga]

Originally Posted by Lex It's possible. The WBO2 can be fooled into thinking you are running lean and then cause the car to run richer. That being said it should not buck. Also when you have throttle transitions such as during shifting the ECU does not use the WBO2 and this points more to MAF sensor turbulence. Post up a log.

Here are some logs from the other day.

[Tomas]

^^ The datalog 5 does show dips into 10.9 AFR at some points after throtle lift and leaning out to 16.5 aft when back in gear. Could be that's not enough variance to cause bucking.

The 4" HTP intakes come with honey comb correct?

[Etipp98]

Yes HTP has honeycomb

[Voltwings]

Am i the only 4" with no honey comb?

[Lex]

@Tomas; that's not an HTP intake - is that your engine bay?

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Am i the only 4" with no honey comb?

No. DJ also not haz

Originally Posted by Lex @Tomas; that's not an HTP intake - is that your engine bay?

Not it's not. It's DIY
And yes it is.

[Lex]

So did you just install the honeycomb or was it there during the bucking logs?

[Tomas]

I've had the honeycomb from the start.
Once I am done doing the ongoing shift control table tests I'll take it off and see what happens. First I want to understand a bit more how the motor reacts to changes in the shift control tables. There are quite a few different variations and changes in the tables don't always have the effect I would think they should have so I am still in trial and error phase.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Tomas ^^ The datalog 5 does show dips into 10.9 AFR at some points after throtle lift and leaning out to 16.5 aft when back in gear. Could be that's not enough variance to cause bucking. The 4" HTP intakes come with honey comb correct?

Where did you pick up that nifty little hose for your BPV?

[Tomas]

Home depot. Lol. That was only temporary till I ordered and cut the correct silicone hose to size. That flex hose is plastic and not very good for engine bay temps.

[Lex]

So many variables here. Are you able to put a honeycomb behind the maf sensor as well?

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Tomas Home depot. Lol. That was only temporary till I ordered and cut the correct silicone hose to size. That flex hose is plastic and not very good for engine bay temps.

Damn haha was kinda liking where that was goin

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Lex So many variables here. Are you able to put a honeycomb behind the maf sensor as well?

Yeah. I can do that.

[Ziggo]

I took some shifting logs, but apparently the logging rate on my old AP is too low with all the requested parameters to get a good look. Only one or two datapoints in a shift.

I also did a couple light throttle offs, and the AFRs do go slightly rich but the MAF V seems stable. Also did some extended engine braking and idling, looking for the MAF voltage to spike or behave oddly, but no dice, its all very clean and stable, at least at the low logging rate I saw.



Zoomed in on shifting

[Tomas]

Ziggo you hais a 4"?

[Ziggo]

I only haz 3.5" but wanted to get some data up showing the curve of a car NOT having issues for comparison

[Tomas]

Observations over the last 2 weeks playing around with the shift control tables:

Load based fuel compensation clutch in seems to be a sort of fueling decay rate by which the ECU gradually cuts fuel on throtle lift while the clutch is depressed. So if you decrease the null type adjustment you will notice the AFR dropping to zero, or 29.3 display, at a faster rate. In my case a decrease of 50% or more leads to a very notchy feel when you press in the clutch. I.e the car will rock more and RPMS will drop faster. On the other hand it somewhat decreases the rich spikes right after throtle lift.

Load based compensation clutch out is the same but it applies when you just lift off the throttle without touching the throttle. A lower number will make the engine drop fueling faster and also makes for a somewhat rougher feel. It feels like the throttle plate closes more with more violence.

The ignition timing limit throtle closed min all tables set to -3 does help a little compared to -13.50 but it's not a huge difference.

The best compromise I was able to get was 30% lower on both load based fuel comp clutch in and out and -3 deg min ignition timing limit.

I have to note however that my car is a probably a bit more modified than most. The head is massively ported as is the IM with VTCs removed. I did that mostly for the injector I am running pre TB from DJ so the fuel wouldn't pool too much before getting to the combustion chamber. Add to that the web cams and lighter eagle rods which make the engine a lot more rev happy, and things can quickly get too overwhelming for the ECU. On a fairly stock engine I don't believe the drawbacks of a 4" would be so noticeable if at all.

[Boosted Beluga]

So what if we increase the clutch in/out tables? To slow down the rpm drop. My car only likes when I shift quickly. If I don't, the car will buck.