MAF calibrations for bigger intakes

[dale_gribble]

I have run both the 3" SURE FULL AEROS and the HTP 3.5. I am not going to lie, the 3.5" idle is pretty crappy even when well MAF cal'd. Once my MAF sensor gets below 1V it is no mans land. The HTP 3.5" sits around .95v-1v at idle (I think ~850rpm) and I just end up with kind of a crappy idle that is always kind of hunting (STFTs never settle down) and I get a P2188 rich at idle often. I often see MAF g/s bounce around a few g/s as well even though the voltage is holding steady.

Literally as soon as I go off idle, everything straightens out perfect and the intake is perfect from then on.

I originally suspected a part issue; I checked/rechecked everything from filter to downpipe multiple times. I checked/tested purge valve and did a bunch of other tests. It was when I swapped in another maf sensor and let it learn for a while that I realized this issue has to do with the MAF reading. The 2nd sensor learned and LTFTs got around -3 or so at idle even though STFTs were still bouncing around. With the 2nd sensor at idle, the idle stumbled around and AFRs were biasing leaner this time at around the same voltage. I changed the condition just by changing the MAF sensor. Why? My two MAF sensors are having a hard time reading good flow with the 3.5" intake below and around 1V.

I hypothesize that the MAF sensor curve is probably not linear below 1v and it's kind of a crap shoot down there. So, it's either up the idle to get the MAF reading out of the weeds or go back to the 3" intake.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I have run both the 3" SURE FULL AEROS and the HTP 3.5. I am not going to lie, the 3.5" idle is pretty crappy even when well MAF cal'd. Once my MAF sensor gets below 1V it is no mans land. The HTP 3.5" sits around .95v-1v at idle (I think ~850rpm) and I just end up with kind of a crappy idle that is always kind of hunting (STFTs never settle down) and I get a P2188 rich at idle often. I often see MAF g/s bounce around a few g/s as well even though the voltage is holding steady. Literally as soon as I go off idle, everything straightens out perfect and the intake is perfect from then on. I originally suspected a part issue; I checked/rechecked everything from filter to downpipe multiple times. I checked/tested purge valve and did a bunch of other tests. It was when I swapped in another maf sensor and let it learn for a while that I realized this issue has to do with the MAF reading. The 2nd sensor learned and LTFTs got around -3 or so at idle even though STFTs were still bouncing around. With the 2nd sensor at idle, the idle stumbled around and AFRs were biasing leaner this time at around the same voltage. I changed the condition just by changing the MAF sensor. Why? My two MAF sensors are having a hard time reading good flow with the 3.5" intake below and around 1V. I hypothesize that the MAF sensor curve is probably not linear below 1v and it's kind of a crap shoot down there. So, it's either up the idle to get the MAF reading out of the weeds or go back to the 3" intake.

You're not the only one to experience these symptoms with the larger intakes. I have seen people complain about the 4" intakes quite a bit in coasting and idle conditions. Intake design does also play a factor in how the sensor reads at very low airflow levels.

[2.0t03speed]

Raise the idle rpm and you shouldn't have a problem. i DD on a 4" HTP (also have tuned a bunch of these intake now) have now for 8 months. My idle rpm is 950.

[Cheapspeed]

I have a htp 3.5" intake and my car idles great. I just have freeks base map. No maf cal yet. Idle is stock 700rpm.

[dale_gribble]

What turbo do you have cheapspeed. Also, I think the vcts delete didn't help me.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble What turbo do you have cheapspeed. Also, I think the vcts delete didn't help me.

Still k04 with a 3076 waiting to go in.

[Arnie1229]

subbed

[sporkbomb]

It's threads like this that remind me why I donated. Thank you, @Lex;.

[Cheese5.0]

I just used the HTP 4" data on mine and it works great. I'm running a stock k04 and idle and driveability is good so far. Stft is all over the place, but it got me very close all things considered.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Cheese5.0 I just used the HTP 4" data on mine and it works great. I'm running a stock k04 and idle and driveability is good so far. Stft is all over the place, but it got me very close all things considered.

Glad it helped out!

[Cheese5.0]

Originally Posted by Lex Glad it helped out!

I've since had some issue dialing in the maf cal. Idle is a bit choppy initially then smoothes out. STFT at idle likes to start our somewhere deep into the negative, then slowly work its way up to +24.8. I cleaned up a bunch of boost leaks and I'm looking at a bad pcv as another potential culprit. I'll post up some logs once I get that sorted.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Cheese5.0 I've since had some issue dialing in the maf cal. Idle is a bit choppy initially then smoothes out. STFT at idle likes to start our somewhere deep into the negative, then slowly work its way up to +24.8. I cleaned up a bunch of boost leaks and I'm looking at a bad pcv as another potential culprit. I'll post up some logs once I get that sorted.

The 4" intakes at low airflow values like idle and coasting can be tricky to dial in. Try raising your idle to 900 or 950 RPM.

[MD1032]

I was working with @sleeveless; who was attempting to copy and paste Lex's values into ATR so he can get a base MAF curve for his new 3" intake. He was doing everything correctly as far as I could tell (I even saw a video he took of him doing it), but for some reason it just wouldn't work for him. The only thing I could think of is that I have ATR installed on Windows XP and Windows 7, and he has Windows 8.1.

Even when I was trying to copy and paste them into Openoffice just now (that's all I have installed on my laptop), for some reason they wouldn't paste correctly and I had to paste them into ATR, then copy them into the spreadsheet. Really odd.

Therefore, I have copied all of the curves from the OP into spreadsheets which I have attached in .ods and .xls format for your convenience.

edit: The ods wouldn't upload. I zipped it and it's in the .zip file.

[sleeveless]

Originally Posted by MD1032 I was working with @sleeveless; who was attempting to copy and paste Lex's values into ATR so he can get a base MAF curve for his new 3" intake. He was doing everything correctly as far as I could tell (I even saw a video he took of him doing it), but for some reason it just wouldn't work for him. The only thing I could think of is that I have ATR installed on Windows XP and Windows 7, and he has Windows 8.1. Even when I was trying to copy and paste them into Openoffice just now (that's all I have installed on my laptop), for some reason they wouldn't paste correctly and I had to paste them into ATR, then copy them into the spreadsheet. Really odd. Therefore, I have copied all of the curves from the OP into spreadsheets which I have attached in .ods and .xls format for your convenience. edit: The ods wouldn't upload. I zipped it and it's in the .zip file.

I ended up doing it by hand but yea it was extremely weird .

[Lex]

This is a formatting issues - from the web browser to ATR and or excel. If it doesn't work I always attempt going through another software or medium first. Notepad is sometimes an option.

[Awal]

Posting as a reminder to update the OP's Corksport's section to include their '3.5" Mazdaspeed 3 Power Series Intake System'. I'm going to measure the MAF ID with calipers before install to double check, but according the CS's site:

"True 3.5" MAF: The Power Series 3.5" system is a true 3.5" inner diameter for maximum flow to get the most out of you performance mods"


Also, for the MS3 they list a few different SRI/MAF housing or SRI to stock TIP. Here's what they are selling as of today:

-CORKSPORT Stage I Power Series Short Ram Intake/stock TIP for Mazdaspeed 3 (after checking all reviews, I eventually found the ID @ 68mm [2.68"] for the MAF housing, but it runs fine without MAF adjustments/tune)

-CORKSPORT Stage II Power Series Short Ram Intake for Mazdaspeed 3 (same results as the Stage I for actual MAF ID size [68mm/2.68"], just an added TIP @ the same time)

-CORKSPORT 3" Power Series 2007-2013 Mazdaspeed 3 Intake (true ID of 3" for MAF, Cobb AP MAF re-calibration needed)


Okay, so those are just CS's offerings in terms of SRI or SRI/TIP kits at this point in time for MS3, both gens. There are some CS CAI systems that use the same CNCed MAF housings as the SRI kits as far as I can tell.


No rush on any of this, just thought it would be good to fill in any blanks.

[Awal]

Well, after a nightmarish Corksport 3.5" SRI/TIP install with a basic craftsman socket/ratchet set (the one I carry in my trunk) and an assortment of really shitty and short pliers/screwdrivers in my GF's driveway, she dropped my phone into the fender well.. I few pop-clips and some fecking around later I retrieved my phone and cleaned up the tools/parts etc. I had ealier reflashed my car with Cobb's OTS "safe 91 oct" map and i was blocking her car in, so I tried to fire it up... It started, and died, which is what I expected, but it was enough to move the car to let her out.

I took my AP to my PC, used the 3.5" tru flow JBR MAF calibration values from Alex's OP, loaded them into my ATR on top of the same OTS map I used earlier, renamed it "safe 91 oct + 3.5 SRI", loaded it to the AP, flashed it to the car, and Boom, fired right up.


Let it warm up to a regular idle, and it settled down nicely, took it for a rip (sooo glad to have that familiar turbo whine back) and it's running quite well. TC came on in 3rd and 4th many o times, and I wasn't even pushing her.. I love the cool night air up here

Thanks again Alex and Stratified!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Awal Well, after a nightmarish Corksport 3.5" SRI/TIP install with a basic craftsman socket/ratchet set (the one I carry in my trunk) and an assortment of really shitty and short pliers/screwdrivers in my GF's driveway, she dropped my phone into the fender well.. I few pop-clips and some fecking around later I retrieved my phone and cleaned up the tools/parts etc. I had ealier reflashed my car with Cobb's OTS "safe 91 oct" map and i was blocking her car in, so I tried to fire it up... It started, and died, which is what I expected, but it was enough to move the car to let her out. I took my AP to my PC, used the 3.5" tru flow JBR MAF calibration values from Alex's OP, loaded them into my ATR on top of the same OTS map I used earlier, renamed it "safe 91 oct + 3.5 SRI", loaded it to the AP, flashed it to the car, and Boom, fired right up. Let it warm up to a regular idle, and it settled down nicely, took it for a rip (sooo glad to have that familiar turbo whine back) and it's running quite well. TC came on in 3rd and 4th many o times, and I wasn't even pushing her.. I love the cool night air up here Thanks again Alex and Stratified!

Now we have to get you tuned up!

[Awal]

Originally Posted by Lex Now we have to get you tuned up!

Indeed we do, internals and TBE 1st though! I know there's a bunch of power lurking in my mods so far, especially on 94 octane, but best to get everything installed 1st.

[Caldazar]

question about the Corksport maf cal table posted in the first post. Those numbers look quite a bit larger than the Corksport numbers in Cobbs Corksport cal included in thier maps. These numbers look bigger than the ones for the other 3" systems listed as well.

is this done on purpose or is it a typo or is it for a different intake system?

thank you.

[Project_dog]

Back from the dead. Im currently running a 3.5 Jrb wide. im using versa tuner. I started to change the MAF settings, but I got to the point where it wouldnt go past 105.8. So what do I do?

[kidlifecrisis]

Holy shit 105 POUNDS of air per minute? Lol check your units homie

[Project_dog]

Originally Posted by Lex Hey Guys and Gals, here are good starting points for the larger MAF calibrations. This is just so you guys are not stuck until a tune happens if you need to drive away with a bigger than stock intake. JBR Tru-3.5 Wide Path (3.5" ID MAF) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.56 2.91 3.28 3.67 4.11 4.59 5.16 5.99 6.81 7.69 8.58 9.45 10.25 11.54 12.43 13.39 14.5 15.71 16.95 18.35 19.49 21.01 22.65 24.86 26.3 28.6 30.28 32.46 34.64 36.47 38.31 40.83 44.01 47.19 50.16 53.23 56.41 59.7 63.14 66.7 70.38 74.22 78.19 82.32 85.23 88.15 91.07 95.5 99.99 104.58 109.28 114.11 119.07 124.16 129.43 141.67 147.59 156.21 164.84 171.45 178.17 185.02 191.93 199.04 206.32 213.76 221.37 229.21 237.26 245.5 254.08 262.95 272.06 281.4 290.96 300.75 310.78 321.03 331.54 342.25 353.17 364.27 375.65 387.28 399.12 411.23 423.61 436.24 449.14 462.33 475.79 489.52 503.53 517.82 532.39 547.28 562.42 577.89 593.65 609.7 626.06 642.76 659.74 677.06

I was just copying what he has.

[Project_dog]

So do i have to go from lb/min to grams/lb

[MD1032]

uploadfromtaptalk1447712243047.png

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[kidlifecrisis]

And multiply by 60, the guideline numbers are for grams/sec

[Project_dog]

I changed my settings in my tuner. Now I'm able to see grams/sec

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[breakfstincluded]

Originally Posted by Lex You're not the only one to experience these symptoms with the larger intakes. I have seen people complain about the 4" intakes quite a bit in coasting and idle conditions. Intake design does also play a factor in how the sensor reads at very low airflow levels.

Lex, I have to thank you for the 4" HTP MAF cal. I have to say it's quite perfect for a generalized MAF cal. Besides first start up after Intake and a BT install, the car has not stumbled or felt hesitant at all.

Here in Portland, OR with 40-50F temps.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by breakfstincluded Lex, I have to thank you for the 4" HTP MAF cal. I have to say it's quite perfect for a generalized MAF cal. Besides first start up after Intake and a BT install, the car has not stumbled or felt hesitant at all. Here in Portland, OR with 40-50F temps.

Glad it has helped! Thanks for the kind words.

[nell]

Hi all,
Ive recently copied the table for a htp 3" intake onto my map. However, now when i go to reflash the ecu via my APA V3 it says the map is locked (grey in colour). How do i unlock the map??

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by nell Hi all, Ive recently copied the table for a htp 3" intake onto my map. However, now when i go to reflash the ecu via my APA V3 it says the map is locked (grey in colour). How do i unlock the map??

You need to update your AP to the latest firmware, update ATR to the latest revision, open the relevant map in ATR, save it, load it on the AP, and then flash the map.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Vansquish You need to update your AP to the latest firmware, update ATR to the latest revision, open the relevant map in ATR, save it, load it on the AP, and then flash the map.

I'm not sure ATR can be updated at this time.


Also, just wanted to say thank you @Lex;! Used your template for my 4" intake on my new setup and fuel trims at idle are within 3%. I'll get around to doing some maf cals after my exhaust isn't scraping the ground.

[nell]

So i did update ATR and it still didnt work. Maybe theres an uapdate for the AP im not to sure. Ill check it out later tonight. Thanks for all your help.

[nell]

Hi all, ive update the atr software and the AP itself and it still wont work. Ive just realised that the serial number for the map (when about to save) doesnt match the serial number on my AP. Does anyone know how to change the S/N as i think thats why the map gets locked and i cant reflash the ecu

[blackms3_71]

Resave the map

[nell]

Ive been trying to, but when i go to save the map it doesnt give me the option to change the serial number??

[TiGraySpeed6]

When you request a copy of ATR from Cobb you need to supply the serial number for your AP as part of the request. Cobb sets the serial number as part of the working key in ATR then provides you the special download link. Every time you save a map it links to that serial number.

If the serial number was incorrect as part of that initial request, or if you're using ATR from any other source than directly from Cobb, it's most likely that the serial number that is saved to the map is not one that matches your AP. That means saving or resaving the map in ATR will not match the serial to your AP, and when you try to flash the map to your ECU it will appear grayed out and you will get the message that the map is "Locked to Serial XXXXXX"

The only way to correct that would be to make a new request to Cobb with the correct serial number. Currently Cobb is "retooling" ATR and it is not available via the website. You can call them directly and let them know what's up- they may hook you up.

[Lex]

Also keep in mind that if this is an OTS map or a map you made you will be able to save and modify it. If it was built by a tuner using ATP, you won't be able to open or modify it using ATR.

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by nell Ive been trying to, but when i go to save the map it doesnt give me the option to change the serial number??

If you need a 2010-2013 version of ATR I can help you out. PM me with your email and I'll send you over the ATR install file.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by g00s3y If you need a 2010-2013 version of ATR I can help you out. PM me with your email and I'll send you over the ATR install file.

Yeah but the problem is that your ATR has your serial number locked to it. He still won't be able to flash any maps using it.