Product Release: Stratified Boost Dial

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Rayd You have a new boost dial order to AUS! And an email re: boost dial Thanks again lex!

All Boost Dial orders shipped out!

[Rayd]

Originally Posted by Lex All Boost Dial orders shipped out!

Legend!
Just got the shipment email

[SarcasticOne]

Just wanted to double check I've done this right....
uploadfromtaptalk1360698858281.jpg
Ms paint ftw
Is port 3 supposed to be vta? Couldn't find anything on GS instructions about blocking it off...
@Rayd; has reported great success, but mine seems much less so...

Also, should the boost source house be 4 or 6mm? Had all sorts of issues getting the 4 mm on there...

[Lex]

Cap off the 3rd port on the GS solenoid.

Use hoses that fit snugly and don't leak - the diameter doesn't matter in terms of response as long as they don't slip off or leak.

For initial setting (not sure how your setup is) but I would try a Blue 9 or there abouts (almost in the orange zone) and work your way towards the + if needed. Remember that the tune has to be calling for the correct values and I recommend having stock or very close to stock LEC and BEC values with correct boost and load targets (depending on if it's a boost targeting or load targeting tune).

Post up a log.

[SarcasticOne]

Took till nearly 4k rpm for full spool on a 3071
@atvfreek; has logs, I'm on phone, but am sure he'll look after me Just wanted to check to see if install fail on my part :p

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Lex]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Took till nearly 4k rpm for full spool on a 3071 @atvfreek; has logs, I'm on phone, but am sure he'll look after me Just wanted to check to see if install fail on my part :p Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Not sure how he's tuning you - he can chime in here - but if you are having slow spool AND HIGH WGDC then you need to turn it more towards +. If you are having slow spool and LOW WGDC then the tune has to call for more boost/load.

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by Lex Not sure how he's tuning you - he can chime in here - but if you are having slow spool AND HIGH WGDC then you need to turn it more towards +. If you are having slow spool and LOW WGDC then the tune has to call for more boost/load.

Definitely high wgdc, 24psi on 10psi spring... Have left to go to work for the day, but I went out last night, did logs and adjusted knob until hitting desired boost at redline... From memory, was 7 on the colour before white...

But guessing I should cap off port 3 before commenting too much further...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Lex]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Definitely high wgdc, 24psi on 10psi spring... Have left to go to work for the day, but I went out last night, did logs and adjusted knob until hitting desired boost at redline... From memory, was 7 on the colour before white... But guessing I should cap off port 3 before commenting too much further... Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Post your results but also note that 24psi is asking a lot from a 10psi spring when it comes to boost control. Looking forward to seeing some logs.

[Rayd]

@SarcasticOne, i think i hooked mine up abit differently... not sure how the GS EBCS is compared to my perrin, but what i did was, the line that originally came from the turbo compressor housing to the EBCS i took out and put the boost dial vacuum line into that port, i then removed the vacuum line that use to come from the EBCS the WG actuator and capped it off, and i left the line that originally went from the EBCS to the intake as it was.

have huge oscillations though so maybe i did it wrong aswell! lol @Lex might be able to confirm?

[Lex]

Ray, I need to send you a proper map Give me a bit of time.

[Rayd]

Originally Posted by Lex Ray, I need to send you a proper map Give me a bit of time.

lol thanks mate
I've been checking my emails with constant refreshing! im just worried that me or sam have "swapped" our EBCS from 3 port interrupt to bleed type incorrectly

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Rayd lol thanks mate I've been checking my emails with constant refreshing! im just worried that me or sam have "swapped" our EBCS from 3 port interrupt to bleed type incorrectly

Did the diagrams on my site help? Let me know if anything is unclear. I will be getting to your e-mail this evening.

[SpeedRebirth]

GA and BD shipping email recieved
ETA: Feb 19

Thanks Lex

[Rayd]

Originally Posted by Lex Did the diagrams on my site help? Let me know if anything is unclear. I will be getting to your e-mail this evening.

Thanks lex
The diagrams did indeed help a lot, but since they were for a two port EBCS (stock looking) and I have a 3 port Perrin EBCS, it was abit difficult to correspond the appropriate vacuum lines.
to explain further: I wasn't sure about how to convert the 3 port EBCS to the bleed style 2 port correctly. Unsure which port had to be routed to where And wasn't 100% certain of which one to cap.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, I ended up capping off the port that previously went to the WG, and put the vacuum line that is coming from the boost dial to the port on the EBCS that was previously tapped to directly to the boost source (turbo compressor housing)
Oh and I let the 3rd port from the EBCS to the intake as it was.

Is that correct?

[Redline143]

Originally Posted by Lex If you move the window in a very high region (turn the dial in the + direction lots) you will get extremely quick spool and it will allow the system overall to reach more boost. However this may or may not be a good thing on a K04. You can definitely switch to load tuning whether using the Boost Dial or not. The OEM turbo has an inline restrictor so it is like a Boost Dial that is not adjustable.

So, carrying 20 or 21psi to redline on a K04 is ill-advised due to efficiency issues?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Took till nearly 4k rpm for full spool on a 3071 @atvfreek; has logs, I'm on phone, but am sure he'll look after me Just wanted to check to see if install fail on my part :p Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

The comp tables are still very conservative due to the boost control before. Once I take a look at the logs I will give the map some more authority and we will see how it performs. If you are hitting your target boost up top, I would say the dial is in the right position and we just need to work on the wgdc and comp tables

Sent from your couch

Originally Posted by Redline143 So, carrying 20 or 21psi to redline on a K04 is ill-advised due to efficiency issues?

You're blowing fire at that point. I usually have boost taper to 17-18 at redline on any k04 setup. Even that is over spinning the compressor.

I would study some compressor maps. Keeping the compressor efficient will keep the turbo happy for lots of miles and also make the best power.

Sent from your couch

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Redline143 So, carrying 20 or 21psi to redline on a K04 is ill-advised due to efficiency issues?

Lex and atvfreek have studied this stuff in depth, and I tried to make a good visual representation here:

(theoretical, but should get the job done to illustrate)...

Notice how many lbs per minute a 2.3 liter engine consumes @ 6500 rpm per each boost level (on the right of the chart).

To run 20 psi on a 2.3 liter engine @ 6500 rpm efficiently, you need somewhere in the neighborhood of 45 lbs per min...

A strong k04 may be capable of ~ 36 lb min while overspinning.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-101-a-110475/

[Lex]

Originally Posted by atvfreek The comp tables are still very conservative due to the boost control before. Once I take a look at the logs I will give the map some more authority and we will see how it performs. If you are hitting your target boost up top, I would say the dial is in the right position and we just need to work on the wgdc and comp tables Sent from your couch

@atvfreek; take a look at my OP in this thread. I recommend starting with OEM LEC and BEC tables and even the WGDC table I posted. Then look at his WGDC and boost. Usually very minor changes are needed to the LEC and BEC tables.

[Lex]

Lots of people are confused about vacuum routing for the Boost Dial if they have a 3 port solenoid installed. I updated the OP with a diagram on how to do this.

[Redline143]

Originally Posted by atvfreek The comp tables are still very conservative due to the boost control before. Once I take a look at the logs I will give the map some more authority and we will see how it performs. If you are hitting your target boost up top, I would say the dial is in the right position and we just need to work on the wgdc and comp tables Sent from your couch You're blowing fire at that point. I usually have boost taper to 17-18 at redline on any k04 setup. Even that is over spinning the compressor. I would study some compressor maps. Keeping the compressor efficient will keep the turbo happy for lots of miles and also make the best power. Sent from your couch

That's what I already was thinking. I have a friend who wanted the boost dial to try and run a little higher boost on his K04, in addition to smoothing out boost oscillations beyond what hybridizing his tune with the TRL and LEC tables availed. As I've been practicing tuning a lot, I've come across numerous mentions of K04s not doing well past 17 or 18 at redline. I've experimented on my on Speed, and it won't even make past 18 at 6500 regardless of the WGDC or Boost targets I command... Almost like it knows its own limits, LOL!

Thanks for reaffirming what I was pretty sure of...

[Rich990]

^ at 5500 ft of altitude, it self limits itself to max 15 psi anywhere after 5500 rpm :/

[Dano]

lil turbo can't be expected to pump air that isn't there...lol

[Zbrit00x]

My boost dial is working amazingly, getting 19/20 psi by 32/3400 rpm, and the car is so much more responsive on the load based tune.

[SleeperHatch]

Originally Posted by Zbrit00x My boost dial is working amazingly, getting 19/20 psi by 32/3400 rpm, and the car is so much more responsive on the load based tune.

How so fast!??! Full boost for me isnt till 3700-3800

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[Zbrit00x]

Originally Posted by SleeperHatch How so fast!??! Full boost for me isnt till 3700-3800 Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

It varies on temp, additional load In the car etc. soonest ive seen is 3200, average is about 34/3500 I'd say

[Rayd]

Boost dial is working great for me too! Improved spool and responsiveness and only on my 1st stratified revision!
20/21PSI by 3250-3350
And that's with the dial set to orange 4.5 (about midway)

[Lex]

Originally Posted by SleeperHatch How so fast!??! Full boost for me isnt till 3700-3800 Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Cale don't you have a bigger turbo? I know your setup is flowing more g/s than Zayn. Targeting load means that you may need less boost to get to the same load if your setup flows very well.

[SleeperHatch]

Originally Posted by Lex Cale don't you have a bigger turbo? I know your setup is flowing more g/s than Zayn. Targeting load means that you may need less boost to get to the same load if your setup flows very well.

I dont think so? I believe he has the gt3071 and I have the gtx.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[Zbrit00x]

Originally Posted by SleeperHatch I dont think so? I believe he has the gt3071 and I have the gtx. Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

Correct, the gtx is supposed to flow better mid to up top I thought so you should be good

[SpeedRebirth]

Thank you @Lex;!!
Recieved my Guardian Angel and Boost Dial today, looks awesome





GA will be installed as soon as possible

[Lex]

Glad it made it safely! Thanks for posting sir!

[mps6dave]

hi alex,ive just ordered one of these from you due to pesky ossilations,correction table is well chopped down and its still a pain,im hoping this cures the problem,mods are in my sig,and log for you to see whats happening ,any tips on what setting to put in will be great,ill also be fitting the stock ebcs and not the gs

thanks lex

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mps6dave hi alex,ive just ordered one of these from you due to pesky ossilations,correction table is well chopped down and its still a pain,im hoping this cures the problem,mods are in my sig,and log for you to see whats happening ,any tips on what setting to put in will be great,ill also be fitting the stock ebcs and not the gs thanks lex

I would start with blue 8 - they are preset at those values and set the boost control logic to OEM.

[mps6dave]

hi lex,i had a boost dial delivered for a customers car thats coming for work next month so i fitted it to mine,couldnt wait for mine to arrive.

anyway we set the correction tables 75% of the stock values,reflashed the car and this was the outcome,not reached the load targets and the wgdc is high so adjust the valve untill the load is reached . much much smoother

[Lex]

@mps6dave; post the log in csv format (not sure what the axes are there) here and the setting on the boost dial. What turbo is the car running?

Also I would set the correction table to stock values (this can change from turbo to turbo slightly) and perhaps adjust the WGDC base table a bit and the boost dial. The curve looks much smoother and you guys are getting a lot of these in the UK - thanks for that

[mps6dave]

its running the bnr3 turbo,the valve is preety damn good,wish it was out 21 map revisions earlier.

[mps6dave]

i did some messing today and think i need to raise the correction factors back to stock in the load tables as in crease the wgdc a little,i run 50% from 3-7k

also my idc is running 99%,so need to run meth or increase the fuel pressure with a better valve

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mps6dave its running the bnr3 turbo,the valve is preety damn good,wish it was out 21 map revisions earlier.

Beautiful boost curve. Smooth, tapers towards redline, and you have 20psi by 3000 RPM Nice to see the Boost Dial is working as it should. It is a game changer once people use it and realize how easy it is to have smooth and responsive boost control with no oscillations or hassle.

A tip on the tune if I may. Try and target no less than 10* advance at redline even if you have to lower the load/boost. Dropping timing that low is costing more than dropping some load.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by mps6dave i did some messing today and think i need to raise the correction factors back to stock in the load tables as in crease the wgdc a little,i run 50% from 3-7k also my idc is running 99%,so need to run meth or increase the fuel pressure with a better valve

Also don't use an aftermarket relief valve for the fuel rail. You will hit a cut as the sensor maxes out at around 2100psi and it's annoying. It's fine to have IDC even a bit above 100 but adding meth always helps and it will help with your timing.

[mps6dave]

its becoming hesitant/juddery up top when fueling gets to about 95%idc,im usually running 265kpa,9.5-10* up top , i can can run 2.38load up to 5k then tapers down to 2.15at 6900rpm if fueling allows it.

i may get a better in tank pump to help with fuel demand