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-   -   VTA ... (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f600/vta-115811/)

Lex 07-17-2012 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by himurax13 (Post 1512932)
Too bad there isn't a core exchange program due to the limited amount. Maybe once these are in production that might be a possibility. Probably an extra charge since the unit that is coming is in better shape than the one being swapped.

Except for the LED light issue (which isn't a problem for me since I haven't routed it through the firewall yet) I haven't had any issues with the VTA software thus far. My Turbosmart and Forge V1 sound and act the same as if they were in recirc mode. If I had a complaint, it would be that. I was hoping for more noise. :(

@Lex if we were to log our shifts, what would we be looking for to see if everything is working properly? How should the logs be taken?
If you want to compare - log the following:

1. A shift with valve in recirc and VTA feature off
2. A shift with valve in VTA and VTA feature off
3. A shift with valve in VTA and VTA feature on

I would do the 3 above in 3 scenarios:

1. A shift
2. Letting off the gas and not shifting after boosting
3. Idle

I've already done this during development but if you want to see how things look take a look at AFRs.

himurax13 07-17-2012 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 1513379)
If you want to compare - log the following:

1. A shift with valve in recirc and VTA feature off
2. A shift with valve in VTA and VTA feature off
3. A shift with valve in VTA and VTA feature on

I would do the 3 above in 3 scenarios:

1. A shift
2. Letting off the gas and not shifting after boosting
3. Idle

I've already done this during development but if you want to see how things look take a look at AFRs.

Oh OK, so its just a matter of AFR since the whole point of this feature is to reduce the rich condition that VTA causes. With my "Informal" field testing, I couldn't tell the difference between VTA or Recirc, which I believe was the goal. :)

I wish I had a decibel meter to measure if the the BOV's are louder in VTA mode. Maybe I should keep lightening the spring pressure?

himurax13 07-17-2012 11:13 PM
Did some more informal field testing. Lowering the spring pressure on the Turbosmart Dual Port is definitely making it louder. I got some pedestrians from a few hundred feet away to turn around with only 13 lbs of boost. :)

Dmurray06 07-21-2012 05:38 PM
Got my Guardian Angel installed today, god damn that thing is badass!

And I left a review on your site @Lex

Thanks!

IMASA 07-21-2012 05:50 PM
Are there any issues if I'm running my Forge as a BPV but I have the GA with VTA enabled?

thanks

Dmurray06 07-21-2012 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMASA (Post 1520731)
Are there any issues if I'm running my Forge as a BPV but I have the GA with VTA enabled?

thanks
Ummm...not sure, but if your using it as a BPV just toggle the VTA feature off, then your good.

speed_freak91 07-21-2012 07:04 PM
How the hell did I miss this thread until now?

@Lex I see your out of the GA's on your website. When might you be getting more in?

Dmurray06 07-21-2012 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 1506594)
Target is before the end of this month. I will post in here once they come in.
There you go

himurax13 07-22-2012 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMASA (Post 1520731)
Are there any issues if I'm running my Forge as a BPV but I have the GA with VTA enabled?

thanks
I didn't have any issues running the Turbosmart Dualport or my Forge V1 in recirc with the VTA software installed. However, I didn't take any logs either.

Mistersix 07-22-2012 07:53 AM
It should work just fine. All the GA is doing is holding the valve closed at idle. And forcing it closed faster in between shifts.

However, i've been running my GA with the VTA feature engaged on the stock valve and it flutters like crazy. But its not the valve.

Me and a friend got a flash light and looked in it and watched as i mashed the throttle. It closes tight and seals, then the fluttering sound follows. I believe the sound to be the air being chopped up by the impeller in the compressor side.

Can this eventually damage the turbo?

Lex 07-22-2012 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistersix (Post 1521161)
It should work just fine. All the GA is doing is holding the valve closed at idle. And forcing it closed faster in between shifts.

However, i've been running my GA with the VTA feature engaged on the stock valve and it flutters like crazy. But its not the valve.

Me and a friend got a flash light and looked in it and watched as i mashed the throttle. It closes tight and seals, then the fluttering sound follows. I believe the sound to be the air being chopped up by the impeller in the compressor side.

Can this eventually damage the turbo?
You're getting a bit of compressor surge. The oem valve is fast with a very stiff spring so it tends to cause more surge than other valves. In my testing it was minimal and non damaging. There has to be a compromise between drive ability and surge. The later you keep the valve open the poorer the drive ability and the earlier you close it the more potential for surge so after quite a bit of testing I struck what felt like the best balance. Mild flutter at low boost pressures should not cause any damage. Valves like the hks allow for some flutter as well to improve boost holding and drive ability.

If you have an aftermarket valve you can soften the spring to get it just right but the oem is not adjustable. With the oem however you can try plugging the small hole at the bottom of the valve and see how it reacts. That hole is for the second chamber of the valve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMASA (Post 1520731)
Are there any issues if I'm running my Forge as a BPV but I have the GA with VTA enabled?

thanks
No issues. Some report better shifting so if you like it better you can run it this way without problems.

Mistersix 07-22-2012 11:16 AM
Just as i assumed. The whole point is for it to close fast in an attempt to some air in. which helps with the afr's.

An adjustable valve is next on my list.

IMASA 07-22-2012 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 1521305)
No issues. Some report better shifting so if you like it better you can run it this way without problems.
Great thanks! I ordered a VTA plug from Edge. I was going to install the GA today, but wanted to have the VTA mode enabled while running recirc until the plug comes. I plan on trying to do a clean install so all wires will be wraped/tucked away.

Dmurray06 07-22-2012 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMASA (Post 1521333)
Great thanks! I ordered a VTA plug from Edge. I was going to install the GA today, but wanted to have the VTA mode enabled while running recirc until the plug comes. I plan on trying to do a clean install so all wires will be wraped/tucked away.
The home depot plumbing department solved my problems lol.

m249saw 07-22-2012 12:45 PM
http://www.azpartsmaster.com/images/...op/I436005.jpg

and

http://www.swimmingpooltoys.net/images/PVC_T-Cap.jpg


1/2 inch threaded cap and threaded slip fitting

Threaded together and slip right in the recirc hose with plenty of area to clamp it down tight

Lex 07-22-2012 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmurray06 (Post 1520716)
Got my Guardian Angel installed today, god damn that thing is badass!

And I left a review on your site @Lex

Thanks!
Thank you for the very kind words. I will have another decal for you in the mail :)

Dmurray06 07-22-2012 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 1521419)
Thank you for the very kind words. I will have another decal for you in the mail :)
Sweet deal, thanks a lot Alex!

IMASA 07-22-2012 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m249saw (Post 1521410)

1/2 inch threaded cap and threaded slip fitting

Threaded together and slip right in the recirc hose with plenty of area to clamp it down tight
Thanks for the tip. I ran out to HD and picked up a 3/4" plug that worked fine.
I installed this today and it was easier than I expected.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7...9260b7c9_z.jpg

After driving around for a few kms, I noticed that on rare occasions, at very light throttle, the car hesitates/studders a bit. My LTFT's are no more than ~+/- 4. I should put a softer spring in my Forge V1 and see if it helps.

Overall I'm quite impressed with this product. Everything from the quick shipping, packaging, excellent build quality and obviously the way the GA performs, is top notch. The added VTA feature is a nice bonus.

Thanks Lex!!!

m249saw 07-22-2012 08:11 PM
Mine did the same thing under light throttle though has gone away. Give it some time to let your LTFTs settle, a softer spring will allow the valve to open more at partial throttle.

Sent telepathetically to my Razr Maxx

Lex 07-23-2012 01:48 AM
The slight hesitation will be more pronounced when the car is cold and the ECU commands a richer mixture. It should smooth out after a couple of minutes as it warms up.

himurax13 07-23-2012 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex (Post 1521305)
You're getting a bit of compressor surge. The oem valve is fast with a very stiff spring so it tends to cause more surge than other valves. In my testing it was minimal and non damaging. There has to be a compromise between drive ability and surge. The later you keep the valve open the poorer the drive ability and the earlier you close it the more potential for surge so after quite a bit of testing I struck what felt like the best balance. Mild flutter at low boost pressures should not cause any damage. Valves like the hks allow for some flutter as well to improve boost holding and drive ability.

If you have an aftermarket valve you can soften the spring to get it just right but the oem is not adjustable. With the oem however you can try plugging the small hole at the bottom of the valve and see how it reacts. That hole is for the second chamber of the valve.



No issues. Some report better shifting so if you like it better you can run it this way without problems.

With the Turbosmart Dual Port, it will definately get a compressor surge if the spring tension is too high. When I lowered the spring tension, the compressor surge went away and the BOV sound got much louder. I am running mine 2.5 turns from unscrewing the cap and it works great. If the Guardian Angel overboost protection engages, it sounds like a loud whoosh to let you know that you are overboosting. At this point, just let off the throttle a little and keep on trucking. I feel all warm and squishy inside knowing that I wont be hitting 30+ PSI anymore.:You_Rock_Emoticon:

The valve does flutter a little during shifts if the boost is really low. It shifts great, no backfiring noises, and I get the ridiculous ricer sound that most people expect when driving a Turbo car. :)

For plugging the recirc hose, I went to Lowe's and I bought a #7 (Maybe a #8) Rubber stopper, shoved it into the recirc hose, and clamped her down. I think the part was like $2.

FistPump20fo7 07-27-2012 07:11 PM
I switched to a softer spring on my turbosmart dual port and there isnt any flutter, even at partial throttle let-off. It is holding my requested boost as well. I'm prob eventually going to switch back to recirc in the future since the sound might get annoying after awhile... Great product @Lex

Also submitted a review!

-Calvin

Mistersix 08-01-2012 05:38 AM
So i've been doing some tuning and the car runs great. However, part throttle and WOT gives a lean condition but only when shifting. If i just do single gear WOT datalog, afr's are spot on. If i do multiple gear pulls, afr's go into the mid 12's.

Is this because VTA?

InFeXIoN 08-01-2012 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistersix (Post 1537107)
So i've been doing some tuning and the car runs great. However, part throttle and WOT gives a lean condition but only when shifting. If i just do single gear WOT datalog, afr's are spot on. If i do multiple gear pulls, afr's go into the mid 12's.

Is this because VTA?
@dantes5823

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

dantes5823 08-01-2012 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistersix (Post 1537107)
So i've been doing some tuning and the car runs great. However, part throttle and WOT gives a lean condition but only when shifting. If i just do single gear WOT datalog, afr's are spot on. If i do multiple gear pulls, afr's go into the mid 12's.

Is this because VTA?
If anything you should go rich. But going into the 12's is better than 9's to me.

Lex 08-01-2012 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistersix (Post 1537107)
So i've been doing some tuning and the car runs great. However, part throttle and WOT gives a lean condition but only when shifting. If i just do single gear WOT datalog, afr's are spot on. If i do multiple gear pulls, afr's go into the mid 12's.

Is this because VTA?
Nope, if the BPV was opening you would go rich as you would be blowing out boosted/metered air. Going lean is from something else. Check that your recirc. tube is well sealed.

Mistersix 08-01-2012 06:43 PM
Ya i gotta look at that thing again. as it gave me problems once. But its weird that it only does it when i lift shift. Single gear WOT pulls nail afr's.

vrspeed10 08-05-2012 10:23 PM
I have been hearing about this thread. Subbing for some kick ass work by one of msf finest!!

Mistersix 08-06-2012 05:40 AM
1 Attachment(s)
That recirc tube is plugged air tight. I dunno. The only time afr's go wonky is during multiple gear runs.

This is the latest log i took. 1st threw 3rd gear. Look at row 23.

Lex 08-06-2012 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistersix (Post 1545190)
That recirc tube is plugged air tight. I dunno. The only time afr's go wonky is during multiple gear runs.

This is the latest log i took. 1st threw 3rd gear. Look at row 23.
That's normal post spool behavior. You can help it with reducing timers and adjusting the tables but the WBO2 readings will read a little lean post spool. Nothing to worry about in regards to that.

XerocX 10-12-2012 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistPump20fo7 (Post 1530855)
I switched to a softer spring on my turbosmart dual port and there isn't any flutter, even at partial throttle let-off. It is holding my requested boost as well. I'm prob eventually going to switch back to recirc in the future since the sound might get annoying after awhile... Great product @Lex

Also submitted a review!

-Calvin
Where exactly do you order a softer spring from? I went on the Turbosmart website but I can't seem to find them, any help appreciated. Thanks :) @FistPump20fo7

FistPump20fo7 11-02-2012 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XerocX (Post 1678990)
Where exactly do you order a softer spring from? I went on the Turbosmart website but I can't seem to find them, any help appreciated. Thanks :) @FistPump20fo7
This is what I have:
Turbosmart Blow-Off Valve Springs TS-0205-3102 - SummitRacing.com

As per turbosmarts instructions, remember to oil it with some machine oil. I do once every couple months.

XerocX 11-02-2012 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistPump20fo7 (Post 1721462)
This is what I have:
Turbosmart Blow-Off Valve Springs TS-0205-3102 - SummitRacing.com

As per turbosmarts instructions, remember to oil it with some machine oil. I do once every couple months.
Thank you good sir! I see that it is rated at 10-17 in. HG. I'm running 19.5 psi as of now, I wonder if this would be a problem? Thanks :)

FistPump20fo7 11-05-2012 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XerocX (Post 1722257)
Thank you good sir! I see that it is rated at 10-17 in. HG. I'm running 19.5 psi as of now, I wonder if this would be a problem? Thanks :)
I'm running 18.5psi spiking at 19psi with no issue and I have a decent amount of adjustment space left to tighten the valve more.

XerocX 11-05-2012 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistPump20fo7 (Post 1727524)
I'm running 18.5psi spiking at 19psi with no issue and I have a decent amount of adjustment space left to tighten the valve more.
Ah! That's great! Thank you sir! Ordering ASAP!!

jdub0802 01-27-2013 07:47 PM
Is anybody running the GFB in full VTA mode with the GA? I will be trading my Cobb XLE for a GFB BPV this coming week. If so how tight/loose are you running the spring to get the best performance.

Mistersix 01-30-2013 05:22 AM
I run the stock valve and get just a little bit of flutter after the valve blows off. This is the GA closing the valve quickly. So you want a little flutter. Adjust till you get a little flutter but a majority of the air gets released.

Are you gonna run It full VTA or dual ported?

Lex 01-30-2013 10:33 AM
If the valve is adjustable you will easily be able to get it to very sweet spot where the car will run like stock but in full VTA. The OEM valve was one of the toughest ones to tune using the GA.

jdub0802 01-31-2013 07:11 AM
@Mistersix; I am running full VTA and loving it. :) Got the GFB valve yesterday and took her out for a test drive. Loosed the spring a little bit and it got even better. I am amazed at the difference between the Cobb and GFB valves and how they behave. For VTA the GFB is so much better.

Mistersix 02-01-2013 06:19 PM
I need a good adjustable valve. Though my stocker works pretty good as far as drive-ability and sound goes. @Lex; Curious, what adjustable valve would you suggest?


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