VTA ...

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 LOL @ the number of people viewing this thread.

Your next on the vta list.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Alright, I'll bite-
Why is this different today than it was yesterday/last week/last year all of da sudden??

[Dano]

*walks in with chop sticks in hand*

Mother of God, this thread is full of rice.

I thought DJ might have inner rice but lex, damn.

*walks out to check that CF body kit is still on*




Tappin

[maisonvi]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Alright, I'll bite- Why is this different today than it was yesterday/last week/last year all of da sudden??

Im with you. Not sure what changed.

[StayBroke]

Since lex has admitted he is vta'ing people finally coming out of the closet lolol.

[ms3rick]

Hmmmmmm psh!

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Alright, I'll bite- Why is this different today than it was yesterday/last week/last year all of da sudden??

Some have reported never having issues while others have reporting engines running like shit.

This goes back to what has been presented here by @Lex and @Daddy Chinkus in another thread where some BPVs leak at idle and cannot be properly shimmed to remain closed. This isn't an *issue" when you're in recirc since the vac leak won't readily show up in a datalog and doesn't affect driveability vs. the same BPV in VTA mode.

In VTA mode with a leaky BOV/BPV with pull thru MAF, you will have rich LTFTs and a car that cannot meter air properly.

By the looks of it, not many BOVs/BPVs run by the MSF community can remain perfectly sealed at idle. Those that have tried likely represent a majority of the leaky BOV/BPV user group and so an opinion constituting a majority is formed.

Factor in some brownie bashing, insulting threads on people asking and you have popular opinion.

That is until hard data with comparisons is shown.

Such is life, I guess.

[TiGraySpeed6]

/me checks calendar....

nope, not April Fools Day..........

It's Lex, so /probably/ not trolling.................



Universe takes two steps to the left, Pull Through MAF VTA now the cool thing to do?


Can do push through.... Check
Can do tuning & fake it with pull through... Check

tuneless pull through? Sorta like saying oxygen not needed for fire....

[Ex_WRX_driver]

Id try this at lunch if I had something to plug the recirc hose with. lol

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 /me checks calendar.... nope, not April Fools Day.......... It's Lex, so /probably/ not trolling................. Universe takes two steps to the left, Pull Through MAF VTA now the cool thing to do? Can do push through.... Check Can do tuning & fake it with pull through... Check tuneless pull through? Sorta like saying oxygen not needed for fire....

This is what I've been thinking...

Was there any tuning involved in this? Any modification to the bpv/bov, lines...what did you do to make this ok?

[StayBroke]

I thought in a earlier post he was testing the bov with the guardian angle but dont quote me on that.

[Broxer]

Subbed for future ricer mods

[m249saw]

Originally Posted by Lex I'm just going to leave this log here. Full VTA, stock BPV. This is all for now. For those tuning with me, I apologize that I am a day behind - but this is starting to look like it might be worth it.

Good you can tie it in to the E85 logs I sent you Wednesday cause Im gonna order this soon and I can do the recirc tube delete option and save me 10 dorrah

http://www.hitunedperformance.com/ht...k-powder-coat/

[Dash08]

Dammit, you fuckers.

Now, I have to go at least try this for myself to see.

I have the HKS too. That means a little extra rice.

[GTISPEED3]

I tried plugging the recirc tube a while ago and the car fucking stalled at idle. I was using the stock bpv. Really don't see the point in it anyway, I wouldn't run my car all ghetto rigged like that anyway. If I wanted to run VTA I would just go buy a BOV or a hybrid. I like my Forge v1, although I like the Greddy Type-RS sound.

[themytb]

Originally Posted by StayBroke I thought in a earlier post he was testing the bov with the guardian angle but dont quote me on that.

I think this is the deal as well, using the GA to stop vacuum at BPV....or BOV, wait, what?I'm dizzy.

[Dash08]

And, since we're talking about ricer turbo sounds. I really like the flutter from my HKS since I installed a metal TIP.

If I lose that flutter by going VTA, I'm switching back.

In one way or another, there is a ricer in all of us.

[themytb]

If im correct this would also get rid of the annoying(for me at least) part throttle/no boost shifting horsey noises, right? in VTA or recirc.

[TRSpeed]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak 30 users viewing this page right now. Mark today as the day MSF went rice. I'm giddy. I'm doing this tomorrow.

Hahahaha June 8 2012. M247 infects MSF.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[themytb]

Originally Posted by Dash08 And, since we're talking about ricer turbo sounds. I really like the flutter from my HKS since I installed a metal TIP. If I lose that flutter by going VTA, I'm switching back. In one way or another, there is a ricer in all of us.

Back when I had a HKS it fluttered in VTa and recirc, I hate the flutter so I bought a TS and guess what--flutters like a motherfucker.

[nycMS3]

Flutter is where it's at, niggas gotta know !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dash08]

So, just to clarify, all of you guys that have been running VTA haven't done any specific tuning to accommodate it?

As most of the old dogs know, before, you had to tune to run VTA. Are you guys doing this on previously tuned maps, OTS maps, or even stock tunes?

Just curious if all that VTA mumbo jumbo back in the day was just a bunch of hogwash. It seems like it was after seeing how many are running VTA with no problems.

Another interesting read is how different BPV's affect fuel trims. There's a thread about it somewhere with test results.

[G26]

Lol when i had my forge in vta thanks to a short cs recirc tube, the car ran like absolute shit, back firing all over the place, surging at light part throttle. It was bleeding ALOT of air off at idle/light part throttle.

[cesaros]

Before I put my OEM bpv back on, I had a Synapse running VTA...never understood why 99% of this forum said it was a bad idea because my car ran great, with the occasional rich condition and pop of the exhaust.

you can get a 1.25-1.5 inch rubber tapered plug from lowes or HD...then use a small metal clamp to keep it in the recirc hose. Spray silicone on the plug to prevent possibility of leaks.

[Darth_Nuruodo]

So you mean I didn't have to light that brownie on fire the other day for asking about this? Gonna take all the fun out of things....

But seriously, I'm wondering the same thing as a lot of others-- was this test done without tuning for it? Because if so it's crazy, world-view shaking news; if not then what are we talking about it then?

[Toymachinespeed]

So when you guys say you are running the Forge VTA, you are referring to plugging the recirc hose?

Just trying to get this straight cause i have a little inner ricer as well...

I wonder what the forge V1 sounds like VTA.... Sword clang and loud ass woosh psssh whatever..

[Bosox]

So everyone to this point has just been regurgitating information on VTA being a no no for MAF cars and nobody to this point had ever tested for empirical data?

[TiGraySpeed6]

Oh yeah, it's been tested & logged & discussed repeatedly.

That's why this is causing such a ruckus.....

Lex is doing Lex stuff- doing new things, and enjoying the tease of the first intro....

[manila]

@Lex Can you clean this up and give us all some clarification. Im really curious on this thread as well as the other peeps.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Bosox So everyone to this point has just been regurgitating information on VTA being a no no for MAF cars and nobody to this point had ever tested for empirical data?

More specifically... it's vta'ing a bypass valve.

blow off valves are intended to be run VTA. And as such, they are designed to remain shut even with full vacuum applied to their nipple.

bypass valves are intended to be run recirculated. And as such, they are designed to open up the valve under vacuum, idle, and light loads.



Running a bypass valve in VTA, with full vac applied to the bpv nipple, will result in LOTS of lost metered air. Very similar to blowing a coupler, but not as extreme. AFRs will go rich, fuel trims will go very negative, and car will run like poo poo.

Lex is essentially showing that the guardian angel can eliminate the vac applied to the valve at idle and light cruise, and thus allow a bypass valve to operate like a blow off valve.

[anavrinIV]

I just tested this with my hks. lowest afr on a log was 11.02, and that was during a WOT run (need to do an maf cal anyway). I got a plug for the recirc tube on my TIP and and I'm going to set up a more permanent setup, just to see how it does. I got no backfires while driving around for a while, and no stumbling or any other issues. This looks like good news for the inner ricer in all of us.

On that note, I wish I hadn't just bought a new recirc tube and put it on yesterday...

[Dano]

First off let me say I am not an advocate of rice...ur I mean VTA...my Forge sounds just fine and I can hear plenty of woosh out of my SRI....but riddle me this.

Would it make sense to do some work with the shift control tables to reduce the rich condition/backfire on clutch in/out. I have not really messed with the tables much and don't know how bad the rich condition gets and how much backfiring goes on...

I have changed a few things to reduce my own backfiring due to all the meth left over on throttle lift. It helps but not all the time...lol I don't know how far they can compensate but it might be worth trying. You could alter both the IGN comp to reduce ign retard and reduce the addition of fuel with clutch in...IDK these tables may not be able to compensate that fast or that much...lol

Care should be taken when altering the max ign retard and you might always want it negative..I am running the cobb suggested -3 which does make the car respond faster post shift and has reduced my backfires. Haven't altered the load comp tables enough to get any conclusive results.

just thinking out loud here but you might tweak those load based fuel comp tables to add less fuel since you will already get plenty of fuel by VTAing. Not sure WTF you would do with the Load/RPM table since you may shift at different RPMs but the load only table would be a good place to start.

anyway I may be totally off base since I have no VTA experience and very little with these new tables.

now the bigger question....brown or white?

edit: well I guess nevermind if you are actually running a BOV there might not be any rich condition issues.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Dano edit: well I guess nevermind if you are actually running a BOV there might not be any rich condition issues.

Oh no no, there still are... just no where near as bad as a bypass valve. A blow off valve will still open on shifts and stuff, when there's moderate boost in the IC pipes (note i said IC pipes, and not intake manifold. Remember the T-body separates the two, and it's not uncommon to have considerable pressure in the IC pipes, even when the intake mani is still n vac).

Every time a bov opens, you'll lose a bit of metered air, and this will still result in a brief rich condition.


Back fires are at their worst when the rich conditions are followed with engine braking. Like when you build a lil boost, then just let off the gas all together. The AFRs will go rich at first right when you let off the gas, fill the exhaust with unburnt fuel. Then, once the injectors turn off while engine braking... the motor will be a simple air pump, passing lots of unburnt oxygen into the exhaust.

Once you have unburnt fuel and unburnt oxygen.... you usually get ignition and after fires (back fires).

[EdgeAutosport.com]

[djuosnteisn]

[EdgeAutosport.com]

EWG VTA FTW

[PapaSmurf]

omg so much VTA!!!! ZOMG!!

[djuosnteisn]

DOMP TOOBS

[Dash08]

So, to do this you don't hook up the vac line to the little nipple on the HKS?

Do I just plug the line?

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Dash08 So, to do this you don't hook up the vac line to the little nipple on the HKS? Do I just plug the line?

No, you definitely need the vac line hooked up. Some of the pics above were just taken before everything was put back together.

You need to hook that line up, or you'll get bad compressor surge.