Spark Plug Database - Colder Than Stock ( Stage 1&2 )

[hnda etr]

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...ge-1-2-a-5692/

[shpankey]

Thanks!

Originally Posted by phillyb did you read anything in the first post?

I know this was to him. But I'm kind of lost on this whole issue.

I checked my stockers (FoMoCo) and they were dead on at .028 gap from the factory. So I'm guessing I am in one measurement and others are using the other?

[phillyb]

nah, you're fine.
stock gap is recommended to be within .028-.032
ngk 6510's come pregapped at like .042 or some shit like that so they need to be regapped to be in spec.
i think that guy was also confused about his stock plugs.

[shpankey]

Cool thanks. I found the stock heat range part number. Heat range 6. NGK 3787 just in case anyone needs those too. 1 step colder is Heat range 7, but I know most of you already knew that. My only question is, do I need 1 step colder? I tried the Denso's 1 step colder and they fouled out quickly. I don't think I've added over 75 chp yet (?).

[phillyb]

idk man. there are people who will say that when you raise boost, you should go one step colder.
there are people that go one step colder with an intake and upgraded ic i think.
so i'm really not too sure.
i've been running step colder plugs for a while.
but idk how "necessary" they are.

[c.a.t.a.p]

that last post helped me out alot thanks

Ok, at what point do you need 2 step colder plugs???

[spnkr21]

Good question. I should prolly replace my spark plugs soon.

[Frequentflyer]

Update to this thread.

Autolite makes Iridium plugs now. Plug numbers are XP5364 (Heat Range 4 - stock heat range) and XP5263 (Heat Range 3 - 1 step colder). I know most will turn their nose up to Autolite compared to NGK's and Denso's, but I don't think they're a bad plug. They're $6.49 each at Autozone and I just picked up a set to try out. They are supposedly gapped at .051. I'll have to confirm this, but if so, you'll have to tighten them up a bit. From what I can see, they look like they can be tightened up without bending them too much since they almost have a negative bend to them.

EDIT: The good thing about these is that it seems most Autozones and Advance Auto Parts stock them regularly whereas the NGK's and Denso's are usually special order through these places and cost more unless you get them online. You may want to spend a few bucks more per plug to get the NGK's or Denso's, but if you're in a pinch, run to Autozone and pick a set of these up. Besides, Autolite is an official NASCAR sponsor buddy.... yeeehaaw.

EDIT #2: I've been running these plugs for a few thousand miles now and the car runs just fine on them. I'll pull them out in a month or two and see how they look.

[justint5387]

Why does the Denso plugs foul up so easily? Are the NGK for durable?

[qwerty4550]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Update to this thread. Autolite makes Iridium plugs now. Plug numbers are XP5364 (Heat Range 4 - stock heat range) and XP5263 (Heat Range 3 - 1 step colder). I know most will turn their nose up to Autolite compared to NGK's and Denso's, but I don't think they're a bad plug. They're $6.49 each at Autozone and I just picked up a set to try out. They are supposedly gapped at .051. I'll have to confirm this, but if so, you'll have to tighten them up a bit. From what I can see, they look like they can be tightened up without bending them too much since they almost have a negative bend to them. EDIT: The good thing about these is that it seems most Autozones and Advance Auto Parts stock them regularly whereas the NGK's and Denso's are usually special order through these places and cost more unless you get them online. You may want to spend a few bucks more per plug to get the NGK's or Denso's, but if you're in a pinch, run to Autozone and pick a set of these up. Besides, Autolite is an official NASCAR sponsor buddy.... yeeehaaw. EDIT #2: I've been running these plugs for a few thousand miles now and the car runs just fine on them. I'll pull them out in a month or two and see how they look.

Have you pulled them to see how they look? I have had Denso ITV22's in for 15k miles now and need to pull them and see how they look.

[Frequentflyer]

Originally Posted by qwerty4550 Have you pulled them to see how they look? I have had Denso ITV22's in for 15k miles now and need to pull them and see how they look.

Nope. I ordered a Corksport topmount intercooler, so when I get it in March, I'll probably pull the plugs. They're working fine with no misfires running 19 psi, so if it's not broken, I don't fix it. I was kinda pissed a few weeks ago when I put a new downpipe in and had the TMIC pulled off, but forgot to pull the plugs to look at the them while I had it off.

[Jsn_Rob]

Getting ready to change my spark plugs in the next couple of days. I recall reading that it might be neccesary to stretch the coil from the wire that connects to the spark plug. hHas any else ever heard of this?

[jmhinkle]

Very old info, but stretching the springs a little on both ends helps with some peoples problems. Stretching the middle doesn't do anything because the spring holder is shaped for it and compresses it back.

[Jsn_Rob]

Thanks jmhinkle.

[Texas Speed Demon Fag]

I got the 6510's...some shops say .22, some .28 for gap. My gapper shows stockers at a gap of .24-.25...so which is it? I assume .28 will be fine...I have the auto gapper that shops use so it wont break the electrode or the tip...and also creates a perfect level tip to electrode which is supposed to prevent hot spots in the piston area when firing...any help appreciated.

[Texas Speed Demon Fag]

Keeping stock taking 6510's back, after reading only use if making over 100HP more than stock...no need for me...not gonna risk it.

[halfdead]

So from what I've read and also talked to a lot of mechanics, you should try to keep your plugs as cold as possible without them fouling out, the plugs clean themselves with heat, (like self cleaning ovens, or propane grills) now going too hot on a plug will cause the fuel/air to detonate premature, causing knock and power loss, even at extreme sometimes melt. higher pressure(boost) or compression lowers the detonation point of the fuel/air. so if you dont mind changing plugs, go cold, then step it up a heat range till you find the plug best for YOUR car.

[jmhinkle]

It never hurts to go 1 step colder from factory even with a stock car. Never go hotter.

[speed3willie]

just ordered my spark plus got them for 7.89 a plug got the ngk 6510 can't wait to install these..

[2008MS3H]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer Nope. I ordered a Corksport topmount intercooler, so when I get it in March, I'll probably pull the plugs. They're working fine with no misfires running 19 psi, so if it's not broken, I don't fix it. I was kinda pissed a few weeks ago when I put a new downpipe in and had the TMIC pulled off, but forgot to pull the plugs to look at the them while I had it off.

i know this is an older thread but i am curious if you ever pulled the plugs and what they looked like? what mileage did you pull them.....if you remember.
also, what did you end up gapping them at?

let me know

[burn813]

Bump

[jmhinkle]

I can tell you from personal experience that the Autolite plugs have to bent a lot and not just your regular bending. The are gapped HUGE! You actually need to carefully pull the groundstrap back and then compress it down so the angle is decent. Make sure those strange dots they have on the ground strap line up with the electrode as well. If you are in a bind which a local guy definitely was, they will do ok, but they really aren't much cheaper than a plug that works properly if you don't need them immediately.

[2008MS3H]

Originally Posted by jmhinkle I can tell you from personal experience that the Autolite plugs have to bent a lot and not just your regular bending. The are gapped HUGE! You actually need to carefully pull the groundstrap back and then compress it down so the angle is decent. Make sure those strange dots they have on the ground strap line up with the electrode as well. If you are in a bind which a local guy definitely was, they will do ok, but they really aren't much cheaper than a plug that works properly if you don't need them immediately.

ok thanks for the advice.
i took a look online and i think they are gapped at .051 which really threw me off. i might just go with the ngk's since that seems to be standard for most people here. i dont know how comfortable i feel having to bend a plug that much - doesn't seem natural.

[Frequentflyer]

I've been running the Autolite plugs for over 30k miles with no issues. Of course, when I replace them, I'll probably go with the Denso's again.

[Spectrum24x]

Sorry to revive the dead but what's the best practice for ungapping the plugs? I just got NGK 6510 and they are set around .040 I was going to set them at .031 but I can't get the metal to bend down.. I'm afraid to give it to much an breaking it

[theurgy]

Just lightly tap it against a table.

[jmhinkle]

Originally Posted by Spectrum24x Sorry to revive the dead but what's the best practice for ungapping the plugs? I just got NGK 6510 and they are set around .040 I was going to set them at .031 but I can't get the metal to bend down.. I'm afraid to give it to much an breaking it

That would not be ungapping, that would be gapping. You need to aim for .028 anyway. Use a bench vise for the most precise compression, or carefully push them against soft wood. Never tap them against anything. You would be risking cracking either ceramic piece.

[dead-zone]

From reading all the post I am in a big delema between the NGKs and Densos and dono which ones to get. I know that Densos the spring has to be stretched. How about the NGKs?
BTW, nice thread!

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by theurgy Just lightly tap it against a table.

Originally Posted by jmhinkle That would not be ungapping, that would be gapping. You need to aim for .028 anyway. Use a bench vise for the most precise compression, or carefully push them against soft wood. Never tap them against anything. You would be risking cracking either ceramic piece.

Ummm, why not use a spark plug gapping tool that will bend it for you?

Sent from my LG-MS690 using Tapatalk 2

[rfinkle2]

I'm not disagreeing with JMhinkle or Bronco in the least, but I can see where people would get the idea to tap the strap down to regap.

NGK.com

[dead-zone]

Originally Posted by broncojd78 Ummm, why not use a spark plug gapping tool that will bend it for you? Sent from my LG-MS690 using Tapatalk 2

Nice!!
BTW, this tool costs just a couple of bucks(around $3), just go for it guyz.

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I'm not disagreeing with JMhinkle or Bronco in the least, but I can see where people would get the idea to tap the strap down to regap. NGK.com

that's awesome, until you accidentally close it too much! haha

[jmhinkle]

Originally Posted by broncojd78 Ummm, why not use a spark plug gapping tool that will bend it for you? Sent from my LG-MS690 using Tapatalk 2

Because we are already gapping below the recommended distance causing the arm to lean in and be angled towards the electrode. I have found that when you use a vise the arm stays more true. Also, those gapping tools suck ass. The .99 disc type that has a hole to open with works better IMHO

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by jmhinkle Because we are already gapping below the recommended distance causing the arm to lean in and be angled towards the electrode. I have found that when you use a vise the arm stays more true. Also, those gapping tools suck ass. The .99 disc type that has a hole to open with works better IMHO

i have found a big variation in the accuracy those disc types. what is .30 on one might be .25 on another. i like the wires because they are consistent, at least in my experience. but you might have a point about the vise for closing the gap. you're still in need of another tool if you close it too much.

[rfinkle2]

This is getting more technical than I think it was intended, but gathering all of this info I think I would:

-use a feeler gauge
-close the gap with a vise to be sure the strap and its orientation to the electrode is consistent
-open the gap (if necessary with a plug specific gapping tool)

The tool that you posted Bronco sometimes are hard to find with a measure ring that is <.030.

I would like to have one of those because feelers are hard to use sometimes, but I need to find one with a gap as low as .026.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 This is getting more technical than I think it was intended, but gathering all of this info I think I would: -use a feeler gauge -close the gap with a vise to be sure the strap and its orientation to the electrode is consistent -open the gap (if necessary with a plug specific gapping tool) The tool that you posted Bronco sometimes are hard to find with a measure ring that is <.030. I would like to have one of those becuase feelers are hard to use sometimes, but I need to find one with a gap as low as .026.

It had always been my understanding that using anything besides a wire style gauge was bad for precious metal plugs. true false?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by smoogs12 It had always been my understanding that using anything besides a wire style gauge was bad for precious metal plugs. true false?

I've read to use a feeler gauge only on the precious metal plugs. LOL.

I guess it depends on the source. Denso says not to gap their plugs (iridium) due to the efficiency of iridium being able to overcome any gap error and NGK would have you tapping the strap. HAHA!!!

I know that using a traditonal slide around copper plug gapper is a definite no - no.

I would think that the picture posted of the guage above and a feeler gauge would be safe as long as we are not reckless / rough on the electrode.

[Texas Speed Demon Fag]

I tapped mine down to .28 and used a standard gapper...no issues, but lately I have started feeling a smal miss after 5,000 miles and I am thinking its time to check for fouling. Will also get one of those wire ones if I can find one with the smaller gap like the last guy stated.

[Haltech]

Bump. Updated. If you have other plugs to be listed, reply here. Thanks