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 Old 01-20-2011, 08:44 AM   #81
 
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I am still fighting with what to use to monitor/log on the gen2. I want to get something to monitor, but I haven't heard of a good solution yet and don't want to spend money on something that won't provide me with all the information needed.
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 Old 01-20-2011, 10:11 AM   #82
 
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Im nervous about getting internals lol...
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 Old 01-20-2011, 10:16 AM   #83
 
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Originally Posted by clowncar View Post
Im nervous about getting internals lol...
That's why I'm 100% sure that I'm going to drop the coin on the CPE pump when I get it together. I know of a few KMD internals that were installed in the DFW area by what I would consider knowledgeable people that failed. It's so easy to mess up the installation is the thing. If it's not 100% clean, like at a surgical level, you're fucked. One little piece of grit that you can't even see can piss all up in your Cheerios.
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 Old 01-20-2011, 10:18 AM   #84
 
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700 dorra up front is a lot of cheese though... at least for me, i dont know about all you rich bastards...

Edit: 700 more dorra up front I mean
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 Old 01-20-2011, 10:19 AM   #85
 
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Originally Posted by letzleta View Post
I am still fighting with what to use to monitor/log on the gen2. I want to get something to monitor, but I haven't heard of a good solution yet and don't want to spend money on something that won't provide me with all the information needed.
I'm running into the same problem since I'm considering not going with the AP. Free Piasini retuning for life is a pretty hard thing to pass up. The DashDaq is currently testing with the new PIDs that they don't offer, KR, BAT, WGDC, etc. They will monitor FRP though, and that's what we're talking about here. I'm sure that they will have the other PIDs available soon, but "when" is the question.

Originally Posted by clowncar View Post
700 dorra up front is a lot of cheese though... at least for me, i dont know about all you rich bastards...
LOL, I wish I was rich. $1000 up front is more like it, until you get the $300 core charge credited back to your CC. That's a shit ton of money for me too, but a lifetime warranty and the peace of mind that go along with it are worth saving my extra lunch money IMO.
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 Old 01-20-2011, 10:25 AM   #86
 
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Yea I edited my post to make it more clear what I meant lol. I will probably end up saving up for the CP-e. I called a local VW/Audi shop in Indianapolis and asked if they were experienced in HPFP internal installs and they said no lol... so i was like nevermind then
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 Old 01-20-2011, 01:16 PM   #87
 
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Well I just got back from doing some full throttle 3rd and 4th gear runs at 50 degree temps and my fuel pressure is holding 1650-1700 psi throughout. I'm not even going to try this when the weather is below 40. I still think I will get a fuel pump sooner rather than later. I wonder if CPE would build a new one that I purchased from Mazda? Anyone have an idea what a new one from Mazda costs? I wonder if CPEs backlog is due to lack of rebuildable cores or lack of internals or some other factor?
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 Old 01-20-2011, 01:53 PM   #88
 
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Originally Posted by ROADWAR View Post
Well I just got back from doing some full throttle 3rd and 4th gear runs at 50 degree temps and my fuel pressure is holding 1650-1700 psi throughout. I'm not even going to try this when the weather is below 40. I still think I will get a fuel pump sooner rather than later. I wonder if CPE would build a new one that I purchased from Mazda? Anyone have an idea what a new one from Mazda costs? I wonder if CPEs backlog is due to lack of rebuildable cores or lack of internals or some other factor?
Then you don't need a pump. Save the pumps for people that actually need them.

I think one of the reasons the pumps are so hard to come by is because people that don't even need a god damn pump are getting one anyways. Thus, the people that actually need one (At least 4 users in thread) can't get one.
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 Old 01-20-2011, 01:55 PM   #89
 
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Dang, Mchart. Why you mad tho?
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 Old 01-20-2011, 02:00 PM   #90
 
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Originally Posted by Nataphen View Post
Dang, Mchart. Why you mad tho?
Because I need a damn pump. At least i'm finally getting one though - But it ain't a CPE one. Would have gotten a CPE one over 2 months ago had I been able to.

There isn't any reason to get a pump if FRP is remaining above 1600PSI. Caveat to this is unless you plan on serious upgrades that would without a doubt max out any stock pump; That said, i've seen plenty of users on both this forum and others getting a pump and they have nothing but an Intake. They might need one. Odds say they don't though. The main problem being that people buy a bunch of other shit before buying the most important tool - A datalogger.

Even stock, people should be datalogging this car. A stock car in really cold weather with a shitty OEM pump could potentially be dropping pressure; But you won't know that unless you log.
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 Old 01-20-2011, 02:22 PM   #91
 
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What pump did you get Mchart?
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 Old 01-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #92
 
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Originally Posted by clowncar View Post
Did you for reals install PTP internals? eek good luck with that
Thanks, I know from everything I read on here PTP is not the way to go. My issues were dire, I am talking pressures of ~1100 PSI at or around 5k plus temps of 20 degrees or lower where I live was causing the system to dump more fuel as everyone has read about in the Cobb alpha thread. About two weeks ago I started shopping and was having the same issues as everyone else.... no CP-E and KMD internals no where to be found.

I took a gamble because my pump was already failing badly, I have said it before if I could have I would have purchased the CPE. The buddy who installed mine has done most of the FP internal installs around my area for the Gen1 guys. He has them as well, so hopefully in the end I land on the good end with these internals... if not I start my search again.

On the way home from work today the AP was showing a steady 1600 PSI and even seen as high as 1800. No dips at all.... looking for wood now to knock on.
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 Old 01-20-2011, 03:03 PM   #93
 
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Originally Posted by clowncar View Post
What pump did you get Mchart?
KMD
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 Old 01-20-2011, 03:12 PM   #94
 
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Originally Posted by Mchart View Post
KMD
So you got internals?
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 Old 01-21-2011, 05:13 AM   #95
 
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Originally Posted by Mchart View Post
Then you don't need a pump. Save the pumps for people that actually need them.

I think one of the reasons the pumps are so hard to come by is because people that don't even need a god damn pump are getting one anyways. Thus, the people that actually need one (At least 4 users in thread) can't get one.
Its only natural for one to be concerned. I think its safe to say most of these guys that don't need a pump right at this moment will very soon need one anyway. Who would want to add a tp, dp, or tmic with the possibility that they will be slower rather than faster due to pressure drop? I have had a dp sitting in my room for 2 months now because of waiting for a hpfp, quite irritating. I wish I would have bought a pump first, but this information is still fairly new to us.

Don't buy internals, save your money and place your faith in our Lord God the Ecu.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 06:11 AM   #96
 
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cpe pump = winsauce

i dont think there are TOO many ways to fuck up the install. it really isnt that bad.

lifetime warranty = yes please
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 Old 01-21-2011, 07:05 AM   #97
 
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The install of internals isn't really the issue. It's the metal the internals are being made from which causes them to fail.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 07:13 AM   #98
 
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[php][/php]
Originally Posted by senor blanco ms3 View Post
The install of internals isn't really the issue. It's the metal the internals are being made from which causes them to fail.
Has KMD resolved this issue, or even aware of it?
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 Old 01-21-2011, 07:19 AM   #99
 
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op is on key!
if you can't afford a datalogger & hpfp then you shouldn't
mod the car, catastrophic failure will occur, and the guy thinking it dropping to 1100 @ wide open is ok?

im sorry but your days are numbered
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^He has faith in his ecu

Personally, I've decided to place my faith in Jesus when it comes to my fp, I think he's a more reliable alternative to keeping my motor safe.
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^LOL
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 Old 01-21-2011, 07:43 AM   #102
 
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Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
^He has faith in his ecu

Personally, I've decided to place my faith in Jesus when it comes to my fp, I think he's a more reliable alternative to keeping my motor safe.
Your reading skills fail - Again.

I suggest you *read* my posts. You've again thrown words into my mouth that I did not say at all. You seem to be the only person with this problem. Note how i've stated multiple times now that i've been trying to get hold of a new pump/internals for over 2 months now. Also note that I agree the FRP dropping is not good. Hence why I want internals. I've also stated the fact that if your FRP isn't dropping below 1600PSI then you don't need internals.

Are you honestly going to sit here and tell people to buy a pump even when they don't need one? If your shit is holding up in the current cold weather - Then you aren't going to need one. If you upgrade then you damn well better datalog to make that decision again, but this outright buying a pump crap advice has potentially wasted a lot of peoples money, and wasted a lot of stock for the people that need them.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 07:47 AM   #103
 
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KMD internals really are not that hard to install if you guys have a little mechanical knowledge and some common sense.

1) Pull out a garbage bag, fold it into a nice 2' x 2' square, and spray it off with brake cleaner.
2) Put on a pair of neoprene gloves
3) Remove the fuel pump
4) Put something over the hole where the pump was so dirt doesn't get in the fuel system
5) Take the pump apart
6) Spray the ENTIRE pump with brake cleaner
7) Spray the ENTIRE set of new internals with brake cleaner
8) Put on a new set of gloves in case any grit from the spraying got on your fingers
9) Lube all the parts with engine oil, including the O ring with an eye dropper and your finger
10) Put the pump back together
11) Install it back on your car

I've done 4 sets of the KMD internals now with 0 problems.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 07:49 AM   #104
 
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Originally Posted by drenkel View Post
KMD internals really are not that hard to install if you guys have a little mechanical knowledge and some common sense.

1) Pull out a garbage bag, fold it into a nice 2' x 2' square, and spray it off with brake cleaner.
2) Put on a pair of neoprene gloves
3) Remove the fuel pump
4) Put something over the hole where the pump was so dirt doesn't get in the fuel system
5) Take the pump apart
6) Spray the ENTIRE pump with brake cleaner
7) Spray the ENTIRE set of new internals with brake cleaner
8) Put on a new set of gloves in case any grit from the spraying got on your fingers
9) Lube all the parts with engine oil, including the O ring with an eye dropper and your finger
10) Put the pump back together
11) Install it back on your car

I've done 4 sets of the KMD internals now with 0 problems.
The problem with the internals is that even the internals are backordered right now. Thankfully, i'm finally receiving some this saturday as Joe received a shipment. Other people may not be so lucky though.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 08:02 AM   #105
 
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Originally Posted by Mchart View Post
Your reading skills fail - Again.

I suggest you *read* my posts. You've again thrown words into my mouth that I did not say at all. You seem to be the only person with this problem. Note how i've stated multiple times now that i've been trying to get hold of a new pump/internals for over 2 months now. Also note that I agree the FRP dropping is not good. Hence why I want internals. I've also stated the fact that if your FRP isn't dropping below 1600PSI then you don't need internals.

You are quickly shitlisting yourself with this crap. I really don't give a fuck how many posts you have.
Don't make this into something its not. Your general attitude has been to believe and think that the ecu will prevent failure. This is not safe thinking. Has anyone in a gen2 had total failure or seizing of their fuel pump yet? No, at least not that we have heard of. Therefore we do not know what would happen under total failure. I'm trying to tell people to stay on the safe side and not to risk it.

I am not shit listing anything. And quit with the post count shit. That not what I base my knowledge off of. I think it would be safe to say I've been around this platform longer than you have though. I guess Rigor and Nazarite can't read either?
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 Old 01-21-2011, 08:09 AM   #106
 
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Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
Don't make this into something its not. Your general attitude has been to believe and think that the ecu will prevent failure. This is not safe thinking. Has anyone in a gen2 had total failure or seizing of their fuel pump yet? No, at least not that we have heard of. Therefore we do not know what would happen under total failure. I'm trying to tell people to stay on the safe side and not to risk it.

I am not shit listing anything. And quit with the post count shit. That not what I base my knowledge off of. I think it would be safe to say I've been around this platform longer than you have though. I guess Rigor and Nazarite can't read either?
I would hope Rigor wasn't replying to me because if you read my posts you'd know I datalog the car every time I drive it, and i've been trying to upgrade my pump for 2+ months now. Further, while I've logged WOT a couple times to get more data on my pump issues - I know damn well that it isn't the best thing to do. That said, i'm not going to store my car up in the garage simply because the pump is giving out at WOT. The issue isn't so black and white, and some peoples pumps may be worse then others.

And while I refuse to WOT my car the way it is right now in the cold weather - We don't have solid data on a single case where the pump was the cause of failure. Considering that 90%+ of the blown engines out there didn't even happen out WOT (Which is when the vast majority of the pumps can't maintain proper pressure).. Again, i'm not going to stop driving my car due to the pump not keeping up at WOT.. But i'm not going to WOT it unless I absolutely have to. It is good to feel concern for the issue; That said, I think some people are running around like chicken little. Thus, you have people buying pumps when they don't need a damn pump.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 08:50 AM   #107
 
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I'd admonish anyone that is going to be modding to go ahead and buy a pump or internals. No telling how long they may have to wait, but its better to buy it before you need it so you can have it when you do instead of waiting for months like us.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 08:57 AM   #108
 
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Originally Posted by drenkel View Post
KMD internals really are not that hard to install if you guys have a little mechanical knowledge and some common sense.

1) Pull out a garbage bag, fold it into a nice 2' x 2' square, and spray it off with brake cleaner.
2) Put on a pair of neoprene gloves
3) Remove the fuel pump
4) Put something over the hole where the pump was so dirt doesn't get in the fuel system
5) Take the pump apart
6) Spray the ENTIRE pump with brake cleaner
7) Spray the ENTIRE set of new internals with brake cleaner
8) Put on a new set of gloves in case any grit from the spraying got on your fingers
9) Lube all the parts with engine oil, including the O ring with an eye dropper and your finger
10) Put the pump back together
11) Install it back on your car

I've done 4 sets of the KMD internals now with 0 problems.
Agreed, this is not rocket science. I am just currently playing the "who gets inventory first" game as I am on both KMD and CP-E back order lists. I just want to re-install my TMIC!

I also ordered a Dashhawk this morning just to have something that will capture FRP until I decide whether or not I am ever going AP...
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 Old 01-21-2011, 09:10 AM   #109
 
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Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
I'd admonish anyone that is going to be modding to go ahead and buy a pump or internals. No telling how long they may have to wait, but its better to buy it before you need it so you can have it when you do instead of waiting for months like us.
I can agree with that.

That said, I have to wonder if we wouldn't have these stock issues if people that didn't need one didn't get one.

I'm honestly suprised more companies aren't making the things. There is a shitload of money to be made due to the demand right now.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 09:50 AM   #110
 
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^ KMD already basically turned us down on a request to become a vendor for internals. All they'd have to do is confirm that we use the same Hitatchi pumps that the Audi's and VW's use, then market them as Mazda internals.

I really don't think they realize how many of the "Audi/VW" sales are really us lol

CS and Cobb are heard to be getting into the hpfp market soon, don't know how I feel about CS, but I'm sure Cobb's will be on par, or close to CP-E's.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:22 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Mchart View Post
I can agree with that.

That said, I have to wonder if we wouldn't have these stock issues if people that didn't need one didn't get one.

I'm honestly suprised more companies aren't making the things. There is a shitload of money to be made due to the demand right now.
Well, I was going to wait to post this, but...... looks like you guys need the info now.

We have been doing some long term testing of pumps and internals here. Those of you that have been to our shop kind of have an idea what we do when we are not playing with the dynos, we are an engineering firm and a race shop. So we like to break stuff and find out why it broke and how we make it better.

So here is what we did; we got a Cpe pump, a set each of KMD, PTP, and AMT (england)internals. Here is what we found;

We ran all of them for 1000 miles, both dyno and street, and beat the crap out of them. We then took each one apart, measured the piston clearance, and the bore wear. Then they were each sent out to be tested for hardness.

I will tell you right off, none of them failed during the run. They all exactly what it is they should do, which is increase volume and not bypass. Each one made well over the base of 1600psi (really 1670) the entire time they were on the cars. NO DIFFERENCE!

When inspected after the test only one showed wear, and it was MINOR, so minor it might have been a mis calculation.

Hardness is the same story, they were ALL just about the same, give or take. But not that it should make any difference over the long haul. Two have some surface treatment, and that might help in the long run, but I would not base a buy on that.

So what does this all mean? Well for us, and really we did this for us, it indicates that the faults have been cause largely due to improper assembly. Its possable that something else is at play there, but I would put my money on that being the root cause.

I will also tell you this; if you don't understand what this pump is, how it works, and what you are doing to it, you should not be doing the install of the internals. If thats you, get the Cpe( very good product, great customer service), or let a someone do it for you.

Ok thats my .02. I hope that info helps somebody, and does not piss anybody off!
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:28 AM   #112
 
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Originally Posted by jmac36 View Post
So what does this all mean? Well for us, and really we did this for us, it indicates that the faults have been cause largely due to improper assembly. Its possable that something else is at play there, but I would put my money on that being the root cause.

I will also tell you this; if you don't understand what this pump is, how it works, and what you are doing to it, you should not be doing the install of the internals. If thats you, get the Cpe( very good product, great customer service), or let a someone do it for you.
That is good info from a trusted source.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:34 AM   #113
 
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thanks for the info drenkel.. thats all i needed to hear to go through with the kmd install, everyone keeps bad mouthing the install like its a blood transfusion
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:38 AM   #114
 
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The install is a piece of cake! I removed my pump, installed the KMD internals and reassemble the pump in about an hour. Takes some a little longer or a little less. Either way it's not rocket science... Just make sure you have a torque wrench that can measure 40ft/lbs and an e8 inverted torx socket.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:39 AM   #115
 
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Originally Posted by Nazarite View Post
Who is this guy? He's randomly showed up to groan 2 of my posts that I've noticed today while posting nothing of his own now. What gives?
Accept my apology please. This was unintentional. I am working off of my iPhone and my big fingers don't always work well on this small screen. No harm.....no foul. Really
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:46 AM   #116
 
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Originally Posted by jmac36 View Post
Well, I was going to wait to post this, but...... looks like you guys need the info now.

We have been doing some long term testing of pumps and internals here. Those of you that have been to our shop kind of have an idea what we do when we are not playing with the dynos, we are an engineering firm and a race shop. So we like to break stuff and find out why it broke and how we make it better.

So here is what we did; we got a Cpe pump, a set each of KMD, PTP, and AMT (england)internals. Here is what we found;

We ran all of them for 1000 miles, both dyno and street, and beat the crap out of them. We then took each one apart, measured the piston clearance, and the bore wear. Then they were each sent out to be tested for hardness.

I will tell you right off, none of them failed during the run. They all exactly what it is they should do, which is increase volume and not bypass. Each one made well over the base of 1600psi (really 1670) the entire time they were on the cars. NO DIFFERENCE!

When inspected after the test only one showed wear, and it was MINOR, so minor it might have been a mis calculation.

Hardness is the same story, they were ALL just about the same, give or take. But not that it should make any difference over the long haul. Two have some surface treatment, and that might help in the long run, but I would not base a buy on that.

So what does this all mean? Well for us, and really we did this for us, it indicates that the faults have been cause largely due to improper assembly. Its possable that something else is at play there, but I would put my money on that being the root cause.

I will also tell you this; if you don't understand what this pump is, how it works, and what you are doing to it, you should not be doing the install of the internals. If thats you, get the Cpe( very good product, great customer service), or let a someone do it for you.

Ok thats my .02. I hope that info helps somebody, and does not piss anybody off!
This is a weak test. All you proved is that one out of how ever many worked fine. If you want to provide conclusive evidence that it's the install and not the material, then you need a larger sample from the same batch.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:48 AM   #117
 
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lol I feel your pain, trying to text or type with my fat fingers + little buttons = RAGE
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 Old 01-21-2011, 10:49 AM   #118
 
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Originally Posted by senor blanco ms3 View Post
This is a weak test. All you proved is that one out of how ever many worked fine. If you want to provide conclusive evidence that it's the install and not the material, then you need a larger sample from the same batch.
While I agree with that; From what Joe is saying it does sound like most of the internal fails has been due to user error. Considering i've seen videos/pictures of people installing the internals and not keeping them clean.. Yeah. All it takes is one spec of dirt/sand to get in there and ruin the thing. And from what I can recall - Joe has been using multiple sets from both PTP and KMD. Not sure about the other manufacturers. So his sample size may not be huge.. But he still has way more data then anyone else does at this point.
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 Old 01-21-2011, 11:00 AM   #119
 
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Originally Posted by ebnash View Post
Just as a heads up, I believe CP-E uses auto tech internals to build their pumps. I have found a source for auto tech internals and they are currently in stock. They are, however about $400 for a kit.

If anyone is interested, I will post the information, but I cannot attest to success in shade tree installations of the auto tech internals components. I myself would rather wait for the KMD kits or CP-E pumps to be available because of there proven success here on this forum...
our pumps are the same as vws. so all of the pumps they use in their community works on our cars. which means, KMD, AWE, Auto-tech and APR/CPE
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 Old 01-21-2011, 11:00 AM   #120
 
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Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
lol I feel your pain, trying to text or type with my fat fingers + little buttons = RAGE
Not the typing so much as the scrolling on the right side of the page where the groan, thanks, etc. Buttons are at. My apologies again to all I have groaned. I'll try to do better.
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Black Mica 2010 Speed3; Xcel Nano SRI; JBarone short shifter, bushings, shift knob and rear sway bar; Corksport RMM inserts; Ptp HPFP internals; Cobb AP; Corksport TMIC; Denzo ITV22;
CP-e CDP; Tuned by Ptuning
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