Beans Above the Frank Build

[J-Liss]

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by silvapain Interesting note: Autolite XP5364 on left, NGK ILTR6A in the middle, Autolite XP5263 on right. All different lengths. Tapadatass

Could it be some of the blowout issues are a result of a bad connection between the coils and spark plugs? I just started getting into 20+ psi boost after the piston+rod change I did and was also having blow out issues. There was nothing I changed on either the tune or plugs when I swapped the internals and the head. Same spark plugs went in, OEM head gasket like before, etc. Literally nothing as far as combustion chamber was different except using genpoo pistons instead of gen1.

Yesterday I went from Densos to NGK. Same heat range and gap. Only difference is the Densos are midgets compared to the NGK. Sort of like the pic above. Not only was the insulator shorter on the Densos but also the side electrode.

Could it be you pushed the springs inside the COPs too far up when you used those black man penis Autolites and now they don't make very good contact?

[silvapain]

I forgot to post this, but I re-stretched the coil springs last night before my WOT runs.

That reminds me: @phate mentioned on Friday night that he was having blowout on his 3 with E85, and he placed a length of stranded copper wire inside his coil springs and stripped both ends. He said it helped his blowout.

I don't think I have the right gauge wire sitting at home to fit in there and not bind the spring up, but I might give that a try at some point.

Tapadatass

[silvapain]

Step 1 completed. Blocked off the TMIC completely and did a couple 4th gear WOT runs. Still had blowout; on the second run I didn't even floor it.

I'm on empty, so I'm going to skip to step 3 and fill up with straight 93 pump gas.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Lex From what I've seen most E85 benefits are reaped from 30-50% mixes. This may be a little different with the high compression but I'd look in that ballpark.

I agree with the general 30-50% range.

I personally have zero KR issues with 3 gal E85 with ~9 gal of 93 running up at the ~450whp level with ~26 PSI and 19.5° timing at 7k. This is approximately an E20 blend.

A little goes a very, very long way with regards to detonation resistance.

Caveat: in my case I am also running a decent amount of meth with probably allows me to get away with less E85...

[silvapain]

One of the reasons k04 equipped speeds run higher Ethanol concentrations is that we are air limited. We can address this with more Ethanol and use fuel to add power instead of air. That's not an issue with BT equipped cars.


Tapadatass

[Monotonous ONE]

Nevada town named state's 'most bearded community' - Yahoo! News

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Monotonous ONE Nevada town named state's 'most bearded community' - Yahoo! News

I would totally win the blackest beard competition. My whiskers are almost as black as Darkgums' gums.


Tapadatass

[J-Liss]

update

[silvapain]

I've been playing with tuning on 93 when I have the time. I also indexed the plugs the other day.

I'm not getting blowout on 93, but I have a lot of testing to do to figure out timing on this setup. I have attached four WOT logs; the first two (v142 map) use the WOT timing values from my pre-ZZB pump gas map. For the second two (v143 map), I pulled 1.5° timing from ALL my ignition maps (CL and OL). With the lower timing the car felt better at and shortly after spoolup, but felt very dead at high RPM.

[atvfreek]

I'm surprised you are able to run that much ignition timing with higher compression, and 93 octane. Interesting!

[Snotrocket]

So the blow out seems directly related to the E85?

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket So the blow out seems directly related to the E85?

I think it's more so because of 100% e85. I bet 50/50 would run good with no blow out. But it's all pioneering at this point. lol

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket So the blow out seems directly related to the E85?

It's speculation at this point, but I'd say it's not the E85 itself, but the fact that I was running almost 100% IDC even after lowering latency to 0.92. That's a lot of fuel for a K04; perhaps too much for the air I was flowing.

At this point, my plan is to stay with 93 and figure out what this engine likes as far as VVT, AFR, boost, and timing, and then add Ethanol to the mix.

Tuning this car isn't going to be as straight-forward as I thought.

Originally Posted by atvfreek I'm surprised you are able to run that much ignition timing with higher compression, and 93 octane. Interesting!

I won't be confident that I can run this much timing until my next fillup. I went to 93 from 100% E85, and there's always a little fuel left in the tank from the last fillup. I put in over 13 gallons into the tank last, so at most there was ~1.5 gallons E85 left in there to skew my results.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by silvapain Tuning this car isn't going to be as straight-forward as I thought.

its hard out here for a pimpIONEER

pave the way buddy!

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by silvapain It's speculation at this point, but I'd say it's not the E85 itself, but the fact that I was running almost 100% IDC even after lowering latency to 0.92. That's a lot of fuel for a K04; perhaps too much for the air I was flowing. At this point, my plan is to stay with 93 and figure out what this engine likes as far as VVT, AFR, boost, and timing, and then add Ethanol to the mix. Tuning this car isn't going to be as straight-forward as I thought. I won't be confident that I can run this much timing until my next fillup. I went to 93 from 100% E85, and there's always a little fuel left in the tank from the last fillup. I put in over 13 gallons into the tank last, so at most there was ~1.5 gallons E85 left in there to skew my results.

You might want to pull ~3° for when you no longer have that 1.5 gal of E85 in the mix after the next fill up, b/c you certainly look like you are running more timing than is commonly obtained without KR on straight 93.

You can of course work it back up pretty quickly if all is well, but I would suggest that it is better to start conservatively for every change you make. Obviously your percent ethanol changes are very significant and should be treated as such.

I haven't tuned for 1.5 gal E85, but 2 gal has allowed me to pretty much get people to MBT with K04s (or as close as I would dare on etunes).

[silvapain]

Ran the tank down as low as I'd dare again, and filled up with 13+ gallons 93. I forgot to switch to my lower timing map before doing a few WOT runs. I get some decent KR at spoolup, but nothing of significance afterwards.

I'm adding 0.5° timing from 3500 up, and we'll see how the car responds.

[ms3blackmica]

Seems like you got tuning with higher compression down pretty well.

I'd expect nothin but great results from you. Good shit.

[silvapain]

I also remembered this morning that I'm still running stock heat range plugs. I'll probably put in colder plugs tonight if I have time.


Tapadatass

[Lex]

At these very low BATs even 91 cali gas can take some decent advance. Keep an eye out for when BATs are 110+. I'd even recommend simulating higher temps with idling the car and doing multi gear runs.

[silvapain]

I'm still getting KR in the 2500-3500 RPM range even after pulling timing a couple degrees. I'm pulling 5° VVT advance in that range as I'm already at 21psi by 2500 RPM.

AFRs are dead on targets after adding 1/2 a degree. My dumb ass forgot to recheck spark advance in the AP after doing a CL MAF cal, so no timing advance in the logs. Without that data, I'm not going to advance timing on this map yet.

FYI: I have adjusted the MAF scale at the low end, but I have not had to do any adjustment to the OL portion. The MAF curve from pre-ZZB has been working great.

[khiljis021@msn.com]

Originally Posted by Amnesiac F2 used to make a windage tray. I think they aren't around anymore and are now GP Werks? You might check there

me likeee

[GODspeed7]

Originally Posted by khiljis021@msn.com me likeee

I think you are in the wrong thread there sport... Might want to check yourself...


Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by silvapain I've been playing with tuning on 93 when I have the time. I also indexed the plugs the other day. I'm not getting blowout on 93, but I have a lot of testing to do to figure out timing on this setup. I have attached four WOT logs; the first two (v142 map) use the WOT timing values from my pre-ZZB pump gas map. For the second two (v143 map), I pulled 1.5° timing from ALL my ignition maps (CL and OL). With the lower timing the car felt better at and shortly after spoolup, but felt very dead at high RPM.

How did you indexed the spark plugs just curious?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH How did you indexed the spark plugs just curious?

14mm tapered seat index washers.

Spark Plug Index Washers, Tapered - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by silvapain 14mm tapered seat index washers. Spark Plug Index Washers, Tapered - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

Which size did you used .010" , .021" , .032" ?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH Which size did you used .010" , .021" , .032" ?

I tried all plugs in each hole until I found one plug that fit in the #1 cylinder right without a washer. Then I tried the other three in #2 until I could fit one in with a 0.10" washer. In the end, I had one without a washer, two with a 0.10" washer, and the last was a 0.032" washer if I remember correctly.

The kit comes with 10 of each size, so there's enough to do several cars.

[cld12pk2go]

Your last set of logs didn't have timing...

Your previous set of logs suggest you were targeting about 3° at 2500 RPMs, which is 2-3° above what I have seen others run.

Personally, I never went above 0° at 2500 RPMs when on my K04...

[superskaterxes]

when you say indexed, did you have the tip of the ground strap facing the intake valve? (i.e. pointing to it like a finger)

if so i would try it the other way and face it towards the exhaust and see what happens........

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes when you say indexed, did you have the tip of the ground strap facing the intake valve? (i.e. pointing to it like a finger) if so i would try it the other way and face it towards the exhaust and see what happens........

The ground strap... riser (for lack of a better term) is indexed facing the IM, so the spark will expand out towards the exhaust side and away from the injector.


Tapadatass

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Your last set of logs didn't have timing... Your previous set of logs suggest you were targeting about 3° at 2500 RPMs, which is 2-3° above what I have seen others run. Personally, I never went above 0° at 2500 RPMs when on my K04...

Yeah, I know. I stated in my post I forgot to recheck timing before I did those logs.

I was targeting 2.5 degrees at 2500 RPM and 2.0 load before; I pulled it back to 0 degrees at that RPM & load.

Since I'm still getting a lot of KR, I'm pulling VVT advance to help clear it up.


Tapadatass

[Dano]

Originally Posted by khiljis021@msn.com me likeee

Originally Posted by GODspeed7 I think you are in the wrong thread there sport... Might want to check yourself... Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

not sure but I think that was the ole glitch in the MSF Database ...happens all the time....matrix style.

The Matrix - Deja vu - YouTube

The Matrix - Deja vu - YouTube

[EdgeAutosport.com]

@silvapain; it's going out today courtesy of Edge

[atvfreek]

That's one high quality list of names right there. Lol

Freekn tappin

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport @silvapain; it's going out today courtesy of Edge

You guys kick ass.

[Snotrocket]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport @silvapain; it's going out today courtesy of Edge

What this list be and how do I get on it lol.


TappaFak

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Snotrocket What this list be and how do I get on it lol. TappaFak

It's a list of people that donated when my engine blew back in May. The decal's going on the car.

[JTMS3]

Im just glad the bearded beast is back on the road.

[silvapain]

Latest WOT logs attached.

Even after increasing timing ~2°, there's no appreciable change in power output.

[x09MS3GT]

Originally Posted by silvapain Latest WOT logs attached. Even after increasing timing ~2°, there's no appreciable change in power output.

Im not tuning guru like these guys are, but ive been following your post since your car blew up.

Ive gone over these logs, and I'm wondering why your making peak hp before you even touch 4900 rpm in most of these logs ? Especially with such cool BATs ? On top of that, it almost looks like the same in every log, as soon as your VVT hits 0 at or around 4800, you stop making anymore power. With the exception of the few logs where it jumps around sporatically at the end of the rpm band, where you gained peak hp at almsot 6400 rpm....

Seems wierd. Maybe im just an idiot. But it does still look wierd, or im not seeing something. 20lbs so low should be getting a bit more torque no ? Your timing table matches my 95 octane mixed gas tune, and im making over 345 consistantly on 1.01 VD's.