Beans Above the Frank Build

[Deldran]

Yea thats nuts, need some fat sticky tires to get that to the ground

[phate]

For the blowout - I always had trouble with full e85 when it got cold. Running a hotter plug helped, as did gapping them down a bit. I was running .024" gap at one point. Leaning the car out also helps, and it seemed to make the car run smoother. With the K04 and full E85, you should still have plenty of headroom to lean out without seeing knock. EGT's are the only worry.

I'd have to think the higher compression is only compounding the blowout issue. I have a boost-a-spark on my list of potential purchases.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by phate For the blowout - I always had trouble with full e85 when it got cold. Running a hotter plug helped, as did gapping them down a bit. I was running .024" gap at one point. Leaning the car out also helps, and it seemed to make the car run smoother. With the K04 and full E85, you should still have plenty of headroom to lean out without seeing knock. EGT's are the only worry. I'd have to think the higher compression is only compounding the blowout issue. I have a boost-a-spark on my list of potential purchases.

I'm running NGK stock heat range plugs gapped to 0.026", and my AFR targets at WOT are 0.86 lambda (12.63 on the pump gas scale). I'll drop the gap down to 0.024" and see if that helps.

Oh, and an EGT gauge will be replacing the beard length gauge eventually.

[djuosnteisn]

I would pull even more timing based on those logs, and really vet each increase in spark advance, either by lots of v-dyno on the same road, or even a real dyno at some point.

[phate]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I would pull even more timing based on those logs, and really vet each increase in spark advance, either by lots of v-dyno on the same road, or even a real dyno at some point.

Agreed. I just looked at the logs more thoroughly. That's taking a huge risk running that much timing on this new hardware setup without dyno time. My feeling is that it might be OK, but it's not worth risking when you have dyno time scheduled less than two weeks from now.

[silvapain]

I have retarded WOT timing 2 degrees across the board since those runs. I'm open to your expert opinions on if that's sufficient to start with.

[rfinkle2]

I can't explain why, but I've seen blowout on these cars cause the afr's to lean out (vs. traditionally rich PI blowout), much like your logs where you describe possible blowout.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I can't explain why, but I've seen blowout on these cars cause the afr's to lean out (vs. traditionally rich PI blowout), much like your logs where you describe possible blowout.

Blow out = no combustion... = unburnt fuel and oxygen going into the exhaust... and that unburnt oxygen will register on the AFR sensor as lean.

[Dano]

I sure hope when I grow up I'll be 1/2 as smart as Dustin...

just 1/2 is all I need....well that and a larger cock...so 1/2 as smart and a larger cock is all I need.....and this lamp....this lamp, a larger cock and 1/2 his smarts is all I need.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I would pull even more timing based on those logs, and really vet each increase in spark advance, either by lots of v-dyno on the same road, or even a real dyno at some point.

Exactly what I was thinking...

Personally, I would pull an additional 2° (beyond the 2° already pulled) until you can map out MBT on a dyno.

Guessing on something this critical is silly with your sweet setup...

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Exactly what I was thinking... Personally, I would pull an additional 2° (beyond the 2° already pulled) until you can map out MBT on a dyno. Guessing on something this critical is silly with your sweet setup...

Agreed. I did just what you suggest (pulled an extra 2°) after talking with Dustin via PM. Attached is a WOT log in 4th with the 4° retarded timing. I'm confident my timing isn't past MBT now; car felt noticeably slower with the retarded timing.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Blow out = no combustion... = unburnt fuel and oxygen going into the exhaust... and that unburnt oxygen will register on the AFR sensor as lean.

Your absolutely right DJ.

This is how i knew i was getting spark blowout (besides the apparent popping/stutter). Every time I would log it, id see lean spikes in the AFR.

Great piece of info for anyone to know

[silvapain]

Finally had time to pull the plugs. They look pretty good to me. Attached are a couple pics of the #1 plug.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by silvapain Finally had time to pull the plugs. They look pretty good to me. Attached are a couple pics of the #1 plug.

Did you add octane booster in the gas?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH Did you add octane booster in the gas?

You referring to the brownish-red color if the insulator? I did add octane booster back when I was first trying to get it running, in an attempt to revitalize the old gas. I have not used any since; I don't trust that crap. There might have been some left in the lines.

Edit: to clarify, I drained the gas with the octane booster before I got the car running, so any octane booster that I ran would've been from what was in the rail and leftover in the tank.

Tapadatass

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by silvapain Been crunching numbers on a BorgWarner Turbo MatchBot, and the EFR 7670 is looking good to me... BorgWarner MatchBot I know Geoff at Full-Race says the bigger B2 frame turbos won't fit in the 3, but I'm not sure exactly why. If you line up the exhaust flanges on the EFR 7670 with the GTX 3076, it looks like there should be enough room for the downpipe; the battery would just have to be removed for added space for the compressor wheel.

Trust me, the production 7163 will dominate the 7670 on the street. No sense in losing spool and bottom/midrange torque when you're not gonna make over 600HP. The production 7163 will also flow 15% more than my prototype... And my turbo's no slouch.

They basically designed the 7163 for us... Space limited engine bays that want B2 flow.

You'll love it.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Alpha Trust me, the production 7163 will dominate the 7670 on the street. No sense in losing spool and bottom/midrange torque when you're not gonna make over 600HP. The production 7163 will also flow 15% more than my prototype... And my turbo's no slouch. You'll love it.

The beauty of high compression is that we can run the bigger turbos without losing much spool time. One of my main reasons for going that route.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by phate The beauty of high compression is that we can run the bigger turbos without losing much spool time. One of my main reasons for going that route.

Right, but the 7670 won't fit.

You'd need a custom mounted 8374 to outperform this turbo... If you want to stick with an EFR

[phate]

Originally Posted by Alpha Right, but the 7670 won't fit. You'd need a custom mounted 8374 to outperform this turbo... If you want to stick with an EFR

Everything I'm doing will be custom, not sure about silva.

I considered the 8374, but after seeing comparisons to the other 'new age' turbos, I decided they really aren't for me. No one races at 2000 or 3000 rpm, so it's not a legitimate argument for what I do. No sense in spending the money on something I won't utilize.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by phate Everything I'm doing will be custom, not sure about silva. I considered the 8374, but after seeing comparisons to the other 'new age' turbos, I decided they really aren't for me. No one races at 2000 or 3000 rpm, so it's not a legitimate argument for what I do. No sense in spending the money on something I won't utilize.

Absolutely. They really shine on street cars that are daily driven.

All out racing/ET I'm sure levels the field.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Alpha Absolutely. They really shine on street cars that are daily driven. All out racing/ET I'm sure levels the field.

We shall see. I believe we still have a little WWP competition for next year? lol

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by phate Everything I'm doing will be custom, not sure about silva. I considered the 8374, but after seeing comparisons to the other 'new age' turbos, I decided they really aren't for me. No one races at 2000 or 3000 rpm, so it's not a legitimate argument for what I do. No sense in spending the money on something I won't utilize.

I see every traffic light as a Christmas Tree.

I vacillate back and forth on what turbo I want to run.


Tapadatass

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by silvapain I see every traffic light as a Christmas Tree. I vacillate back and forth on what turbo I want to run. Tapadatass

I feel your silvapain.

[BigjohnB20]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I feel your silvapain.

LOL finkle you are the worst.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by phate We shall see. I believe we still have a little WWP competition for next year? lol

I'm down

You gonna be on AUX fueling? I'm gonna rockin stock injectors for a little while.

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Originally Posted by silvapain I see every traffic light as a Christmas Tree. I vacillate back and forth on what turbo I want to run. Tapadatass

[GODspeed7]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I feel your silvapain.

I had to do a double take and re-read that but I see what you did there. Your pretty witty there Rob...


Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

Originally Posted by Boosten Ya(josh)

My wife gets pissed when I am not the first one off the line at a red light. It's almost like a sign of automobile dominance and superiority. "My masculinity has been challenged. Challenge accepted!"


Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

launch at 4k Everytime

[J-Liss]

Originally Posted by phate We shall see. I believe we still have a little WWP competition for next year? lol

ahem....

[phate]

Originally Posted by J-Liss ahem....

no spinning triangles allowed...we'd hate to embarrass anyone.

[silvapain]

I believe I'm getting blowout at higher boost levels. I'm going to buy a set of stock heat range Autolite XP's (XP5364) and swap them in to see if the little bit of octane booster I used ruined my current NGK's. If that doesn't work, I'm open to suggestions.

I looked into the HKS and Kenne Bell BAS units, and all they do is allow the coils to charge quicker. Has anyone used the WeaponX coils with success?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by silvapain I believe I'm getting blowout at higher boost levels. I'm going to buy a set of stock heat range Autolite XP's (XP5364) and swap them in to see if the little bit of octane booster I used ruined my current NGK's. If that doesn't work, I'm open to suggestions. I looked into the HKS and Kenne Bell BAS units, and all they do is allow the coils to charge quicker. Has anyone used the WeaponX coils with success?

the weaponX coils are garbage and the KB BAP doesent work.

the HKS units work, ive done back to back runs with blowout and was able to eliminate them just plugging in the HKS.

You also need to close your gap more if this doesent help.

[silvapain]

My plug gap is already down to 0.022". Any closer, and the electrode and ground strap may as well be welded together.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by silvapain My plug gap is already down to 0.022". Any closer, and the electrode and ground strap may as well be welded together.

what turbo is this on? and what boost level?

[silvapain]

K04 on 23psi.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by silvapain K04 on 23psi.

i would highly doubt its really spark blowout then. what leads u to believe it is?

[Dano]

maybe its the angry pistons?

[silvapain]

The way the car is shuddering at WOT. I've had spark blowout before when I was running colder plugs on 100% E85.

[btstarcher]

What temp rating plugs are you using again? With higher compression, should we still be using the same guidelines?

[phate]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes i would highly doubt its really spark blowout then. what leads u to believe it is?

Full E85 is a completely different animal, even at these pressures.

Originally Posted by btstarcher What temp rating plugs are you using again? With higher compression, should we still be using the same guidelines?

No, you prob don't want to go by the typical guidelines. As with any performance setup, you want to get actual readings from the plugs and change heat range from there.