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 Old 11-27-2017, 09:19 AM   #1
 
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Default David's NATOR AL Build

So, first off, if you're reading this, welcome! Just want you to know that this may ramble a bit- This is going to be more for me to look. back at than anything, I've really just got to get my thoughts out on paper, digital paper that is, and see where everything is going.

Back story: I purchased my speed6 from an auction for $1,800 bucks a few years back and had no clue what I was getting in to. It needed a clutch right of the bat, and thankfully the transmission shop I took it to didn't know anything about it either, and quoted me about 900 bucks, which they honored after realizing all they actually had to do, and I was content. A friend of mine that was a former speed owner connected me to the local NATOR guys (In Alabama) and the rest is history. Bought intake test pipe and tune and I was happy for a while. Fast forward a year or so and I started having mystery oil consumption which was real bummer, but the quart a month or so it went through wasn't a huge problem. Oil started disappearing faster, and it wasn't the k04, so I knew what was going to happen. Started picking up a lot more knock on logs, so into the garage it went, and thus started the build plan in my head.

The first real commitment to the build I made was purchasing a speed6 that was totaled out in a front in collision, but motor still ran, transmission shifted, and everything was solid- except the bumper and hood. I sold the motor and meant to keep the transmission, PTO, and rear diff as spares because speed6, but a friend grenaded his transmission, so that was sold to him for a pretty good deal on his end... But I digress. The parts 6 has since shared its various internals with many a car. Brakes, fuel system, and ECU/other computer shipped off for science, a few knick knacks sold here and there, but, what made this purchase worth it for me was that it came with upgraded diff mounts, a CPE long catted DP, aaaand DSS rear axles in excellent shape.

This all happened about a year ago, but it wasn't until a few months ago that the real parts came flowing in, but before that I needed to decide what the crap I actually wanted from this thing.
First things first, I had to take care of some adult things that needed to be paid for before I could commit 10 grand to this build... but I did not want to cut corners, its just not worth it. Ive seen and read wayyy to many people forcing a build and cutting corners, its just no good in the long run.
So, what do I want? After numerous talks with some of the higher HP built speed6s running around, it seems like things really start breaking quickly above 500 WHP, so my goal is 499WHP. I know, crazy, but we will see. Having Jason Gambill being a local helps in the motivation, but I've also helped with some terrible turbo swaps that id rather not have to deal with, so top mount it is- at this point it will be a SpeedSolutions built setup. Chris is awesome and is always willing to help with things, and seems to be OK with it even though he isn't building my motor- unless we royally screw up, which is always possible. But anyways.
What turbo you ask? This was the tough one. Obviously theres the big PTE builds, or BW s3whatevers... but I also happen to live 20 minutes from BNRs shop, and they make a universal T3/T4 turbo with up to a 58LB compressor wheel, which should get me really close to 500 WHP, so thats what I plan on going with. Brian is a great guy, and id always rather support local than somewhere else.

Oh, also, the big downside to top mount is that I already had a pretty pricy DP and a big ole intake... but those will sell quickly on the forums- or if anyone in the GA/KY/TN area want them, I'm a nice guy.

Intake shenanigans- Chris should be able to fab up a 3.5 intake to match the compressor housing of the BNR T3/T4, so thats easy. FMIC obviously, and id like to mirror Nick Sweeny's magic of going straight over the motor and cutting up the bumper, because I need a little bit of Just Aint Care. Ive already got the Damond ST manifold kit and spacer for PI- with ill probably go with ID750s with a SS controller. Also, Chris from Speed Solutions is I believe making a one piece pipe to go from IC to the ST TB location... which would make life super easy.

Manley pistons and con rods- 88mm, which will be bored out at a machine shop in Huntsville AL.

Speed Solutions bearing caps for the PTO, and already have rear diff mounts.

Transmission is up in the air. Do I they and get a gen 2 gear set in there? While its open do brass shift fork pads? Do I buy into the front LSD possibility? who knows. Its all just money right?

Also undecided is head work, again, its just money right? I do have CS cams and Crower springs with cobalt retainers, so thats a good start right?

Crank will be keyed and polished and all that jazz, then we will figure out bearings and whatnot. Most likely stock studs, but thats a TBD as well.

We as in NATOR AL, are going to try to do as much of this as we can, it can't be too crazy can it? We've completely taken a few apart so putting together should be a piece of cake? if only. we will see.

Anyways, thats about all I can think of right now, but I'm sure this will get edited shortly... if Shane sees this, feel free to tell me what I forgot.

David
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 Old 12-06-2017, 11:43 AM   #2
 
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Well, first bit of an update. My initial goal going top mount has been redirected by both Jason and Bryan, so I will be getting an S5 as soon as Bryan says they are good to go.

Problem with the S5- EWG on the bottom (ATP style) of hot side is really a no go with the 6 because of the PTO, PTO cooler, and PTO cooler lines. No, I haven't specialty measured or anything, but I am preemptively avoiding that problem by getting an exhaust manifold with a EWG post- specifically a CPE stock location stock flange manifold.

Yes, there is a chance that the S5 could have been used as designed, with the EWG coming of the bottom of the turbo, but id rather not risk coolant lines going into the PTO.

Im sourcing the manifold from a guy in NY, forget his name but he seems like a nice person.

One good thing to note- the EWG spot on the s5 hot side is 44mm, same as the EWG post on the CPE manifold, which means, the EWG block off that comes with the manifold will match the turbo! wooo! Ive already gotten the go ahead from Bryan to block off the turbo.

I have also paypal'd someone for a Trial 44mm EWG, which will hopefully be here end of the week.

Also, Kozmic makes a dump tube that specifically fits the CPE manifold, so thats one less thing to have to have to fabricate.



Other decisions: This go around I am not doing a franken6 transmission, no one around me has the equipment to press stuff out and whatnot, and I'm already learning enough as it is... I can do it next go around. The same goes for head work most likely, but thats still up in the air.

David
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 Old 01-02-2018, 08:15 AM   #3
 
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Over the Holiday update!

well, a few things have changed, the goal is now over 500, to what extent over exactly, I don't know.

Tubro also may change, but still be stock flange. We will see.

The crank I am using had a bearing go bad on it, so it's going to a machine shop to be balanced and cleaned and whatnot, keying on top of that cost isn't a ton of money, but also with a higher goal, I won't be upset with some insurance.

Freek head studs arrive at my house today, and ARP mains are already here.

I've heard that the Kozmic dump tube can have issues... I may get Bryan to fab something up for me, but maybe some heat wrap can add some support to it in case it falls off... We will see.

Stock Injectors are getting sent off to be flow tested and have screens replaced with stainless, courtesy of Speed Solutions, for a reasonable price.

With the ARP main studs, I believe I will have to do a BSD, oh well, because race car. Baffle and delete to be determined.

ID1050x injectors have also arrived!

Once the Freek studs are here, they and the ARP mains will be boxed up and shipped to the machine shop in Huntsville so that they can torque the motor down with the torque plate I bought a while ago- they won't touch an aluminum block without one.

Once Chris Collins at Speed Solutions has my crank to key it, I'll figure out what else I specifically need from him- Right now the list includes bearing caps, Damond intake IC pipe (One Piece), the stainless injector screens, bearings to match the crank, a timing kit, head gasket... and whatever else we figure out.

But its go time! T minus less than 3 months to start hopefully...

David
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 Old 01-04-2018, 07:42 PM   #4
 
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You can shorten the ARP main studs to keep the balance shaft. Had it done on mine a few years back and has no issues.
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 Old 01-05-2018, 08:50 AM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by shaneski View Post
You can shorten the ARP main studs to keep the balance shaft. Had it done on mine a few years back and has no issues.
Interesting... cutting off a few threads?
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 Old 01-06-2018, 12:58 PM   #6
 
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Why do you want to keep the balance shaft?

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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:38 AM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by tmillner View Post
Why do you want to keep the balance shaft?

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Mainly for comfort of drive, its on there for a reason- reciprocating mass to eliminate vibrations that could cause more ware and stuff, but at this point I don't care anymore. Im probably deleting it and enjoying the extra oil or something like that.
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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:41 AM   #8
 
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I can say that I haven't noticed much difference when I removed mine building my motor. My main concern was reinstalling it with the right lash, and the damage it could cause if wrong.

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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:43 AM   #9
 
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Oh yeah, that's definitely a concern as well. We have two guys in our group that retained their balance shaft during their builds, and their cars are quite nice to drive on the road, but I'm also shooting for a good bit more power-wise than they did... So, racecar life. Plus, less to go wrong right?
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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:45 AM   #10
 
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What's your power goal?

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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:46 AM   #11
 
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It depends on if the turbo works out, but supposedly it could hit 700, but if that doesn't work out, probably 550.
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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:48 AM   #12
 
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I say ditch it doubt you'll notice the difference honestly. See what others think though. Building yourself?

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 Old 01-08-2018, 07:50 AM   #13
 
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Yeah i'm leaning that way... It probably won't go back in. I already have a set of motor mounts so a few more vibes wont make a difference. That's the plan, motor is at the machine shop now getting bored out and whatnot, then yes, we are piecing it together.
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 Old 02-21-2018, 07:00 AM   #14
 
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Well... its been a while, but here's a pretty big update. Basically, I've given up on the whole put the motor together myself thing, theres just not time. Job transitions, family... you name it. Once you're married, things just take a lot longer to get moving. Plus, having a Miata as a daily is awesome, but I need 4 doors every now and then... So, long story short, I've boxed up stuff and sent it all to Chris Collins at Speed Solutions, who already had my cam I had to buy and some other stuff. Thankfully Jason was heading out there anyways, so he picked up my stuff for the machine shop up in Huntsville, and as I'm rambling, they had my motor and stuff for 3 months and all they had time to do was wash the things... not happy, and not Helping.

Ok.

So, motor is going to Chris to be built, yay! Now I know it will be solid, and to spec. Ill build a motor some day, but it will probably be for the Miata. Less parts, and wayyyy less power goals, less pressure.
Chris will be porting my head, and installing my springs, retainers, and CS cams.
Crankshaft has been keyed.
BS will be deleted- and yes there will be a baffle in there...
Should be a typical motor build, bored out to 88, Manley rods and pistons... Don't think I'm missing anything.


Ive talked to BNR, and they have had some craziness go down but turbo should be picked up tomorrow or Friday!! aaaaand... its not an S5. Pics to come soon.


David
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 Old 02-26-2018, 01:47 PM   #15
 
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Minor Details update: Fuel craziness appears to be sorted out. Surge tank is getting its 3rd revision, and will have a Walbro 450 feeding HPFP and PI rail. As of now, and yes, could be bad idea, stock ITFP will remain. With the surge tank having a return, that sucker should be able to pump away without issue and provide the surge tank with more than enough fuel. The guy helping me out with this is wayyyyyy smarter than I, so I believe him.

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 Old 04-17-2018, 03:19 PM   #16
 
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April Update: Everything is in possession and paid for besides the motor... but Chris is on it! Block is out of the machine shop, which is a win. All motor, fuel, and other parts are paid for and either with the builder or in my car ready to drive to the swap site. that is all.

David
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 Old 08-07-2018, 05:35 AM   #17
 
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Well, it's August and I have updates!

Also, anyone looking to do any sort of build, or home repair, or anything else, it always costs more than you want and takes longer than you want it to. Be warned.

So! Chris finished up with the motor and drove it down to Birmingham, yay! Had a few things that kept it back for a while, the machine shop keyed something wrong and it took a while to replace parts. I also ended up with the wrong size con rods- the wrist pin holes were too small, so those had to be swapped out, and I think thats about it. Motor looks good! Chris painted the timing cover red and the VC black, its pretty sick looking.

To recap, 88mm Manley pistons with Manley rods, Freek headstands, ARP mains(I think? Whatever ones you can't have a balance shaft without grinding), BSD, Crower springs, CS cams, epic awesome head work, FoST IM with Damond PI spacer, ID1050x injectors run by a SplitSecond controller, CPE exhaust manifold (As long as everything stays flat... don't want to pull that thing out), 44mm Tial MVR EWG attached to manifold, turbo is not an S5 but is a BNR (Hint hint), CPE catted downpipe(we will see how long that cat lasts), 4 inch intake, HTP battery relocate, fuel fed via pump in surge tank with return to tank, SpeedSolutions T case caps, filtered oil feed line made by SpeedSolutions as requested by Bryan at BNR, vented oil cap on a genpu VC, Treadstone 1035 IC with one piece pipes, HKS BOV(its probably not a real one but holds 40 pounds...), and I think thats it for power and stuffs.

Koni yellows with CS springs. brakes are staying the same for now, we will see what happens, still working on a few options, but centric rotors and Hawk pads are still a super solid combination.

So, first attempted instal day was this last weekend, and we overzealously attempted to compete two full swaps, one with a MSM motor and then mine. Drove my car up there and two hours later started pulling the motor. Everything was going pretty smoothly on mine, but Joeys, not as much. We found out after a few hours that he would have to order some parts, but then that brought attention back to mine, so I wasn't upset.

After a day and a half of work, these things held us up:
T Case caps didn't come in time- would have just sent it and put the caps in the spare diff, but now theres time to do it soooo launches will come eventually.
Supplied oil drain line did not fit with the T Case in place. That was the biggest bummer. It was close, and would work perfectly on the 3, but there was no way to bend or modify it to make room for the T case, so a message to Eric was sent, and a drain line is on its way.

Once these things show up, motor, transmission, and T Case can be put together and put in the engine bay.

Also have decided to get a PCV plate and a catch can... TBD. Jason's S5 is working splendidly with only a vented oil cap, but Id like to track it at some point and Farhan says I need venting.

The rear of the car is the worst. Both axles are seized like crazy and will probably be destroyed to get them out. Hopefully I don't need new knuckles, but I've got DSS rears so I'm not upset. Also ordered low profile bushings for the sway bar that will be here shortly.

Also, if you don't have pretty princess hands, those dang rear shocks are painful to get out. Thankfully I have Shane in my life.




So, whats next? Well, its looking like Labor Day is the next weekend we are all free, so maybe then it will get running! Still need to finish suspension in the back, do the battery relocate, and sort out PI system including running fuel lines and figuring out the dang SS controller. Oh, and put the motor together and get it in the car. Closer than when I started but still have a ways to go.


David

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 Old 08-07-2018, 05:49 AM   #18
 
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 Old 08-07-2018, 06:01 AM   #19
 
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thrasher1992 will become famous soon enoughthrasher1992 will become famous soon enough
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@nindoja happy now?
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