The FAIL formerly known as "Dano's Drop-in Build"

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by phate Ah shit, after rereading that, i realize it comes across the wrong way. My old engine was super fucked from some pos build the previous owner did. Despite that, and despite the lack of squirters, the engine did not make noises, and the bearings all looked good.

so what your saying is, even with MASSIVE amounts of fail and general lack of knowledge for building a motor, you still wouldent have as many problems as @Dano;?

[Dano]

@superskaterxes;

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Next time you're under your car, I would also pull a main bearing cap to see where those stand.

There are two bolts on the bottom of the rear main seal that bolt into the back of the girdle. Need to pull transmission and clutch for that.

[ASHMS3]

If you've got the money to do a new LB and swap your forged internals in, it sounds like the way to go. Like you said, you may drop another 250+ for new bearings etc. and still be in the same boat. Drop-ins may only work well for low mileage motors. @Dano; @Tomas; @chimmike; how many miles did you guys start off with for your drop-ins? Dan, maybe your fucked up ringland caused more issues than you originally suspected?

Known issues: (quick browsing threads, if I missed something please add)
Chimmike: oil consumption issues but great compression results and car is running great(oil consumption suspect thirsty turbo is thristy)
Tomas: Fried cam bearings, suspected debris in head, oil starvation to cams or excessive oil temps from track duty
Dano: Audible rattle accompanied by observed/logged KR(mechanical timing verified 3X), fucked up bearings

[Easter Bunny]

@Dano; what weight oil are you running now? since it seems that you have decided to go all new and junk this motor, I would try running a much higher weight oil to try and bandaid getting the oil pressures up and help out the bearings to try and keep it from self destructing in the near term.

If the car is still apart i would try to clean out the oil pickup too.

EDIT: go 20w50 BECAUZ RACECAR!!!! I think you will end up spending a lot of money on oil if you try to go heavier.

[Dano]

oil pickup tube was soaked in petrol over night and blew out from the pump side to the pickup side [its split down the middle with the screen]...not much if anything came out.

didn't drive it today, wont need to tomorrow nor Thursday and don't know about Friday. Short story is, I don't have to drive it much and I really think it will hold together indefinitely. When I did drive it Monday I kept the revs to 1500 while sitting still so pressure stays around 20psi. prab should flash a map with a 1500 idle setting

it is possible my sending unit location could be part of, if not THE cause of my low pressure readings. Anybody have a clue what the thread pitch is on the OEM sending unit?

I could try and find an adapter to get from there to the 1/8th NPT of the Prosport unit. It is def much larger than 1/8 and what probably metric?...lol prab not worth the trouble though.

running 10-40 PP syn

if I haven't already said this I think the trouble with the bearings was due to honing residue so I really wonder what other drop in builds' bearings look like.

my ringland came out in one piece so I doubt it caused any other issues with the motor and it was still captured between the rings.

[superskaterxes]

stock is 1/4 NPT

[Easter Bunny]

Fix the thread title it should be formerly not formally.

[Dano]

Is that all u got? Title has been that way for 3 mos. Fail is the only new word which IMO is perfectly fitting.

Soooo back OT, with a map flash for 1050 idle. Hot temp is running 15 psi. That should hold the POS over for a week or two.

Tappin

[mrQQ]

so was something wrong with the way you washed your block? why all the residue?

[TiGraySpeed6]

I remember you washing the heck outta your block (post 369 in this thread has the pics)

Tough to think there would have been any micro-shrapnel left to contribute to the problem

[CosmicArkie]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Fix the thread title it should be formerly not formally.

I don't know, Bunny. Sounds to me like Dano did a pretty fair job of formalizing fail. Just sayin'...


Hey, @Dano;
I know you're pretty concerned with temps on everything. I've got a Hayden style P/S
cooler kit taking up space and collecting dust up here. Got any use for it?

[Dano]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 I remember you washing the heck outta your block (post 369 in this thread has the pics) Tough to think there would have been any micro-shrapnel left to contribute to the problem

I think the issue arises in the debris that slings around BELOW the cylinder walls that you can't get to and remove. It likely builds up on the side walls of the lower block in the crank area and waits for oil to wash it down into the pan.

Originally Posted by CosmicArkie I don't know, Bunny. Sounds to me like Dano did a pretty fair job of formalizing fail. Just sayin'... Hey, @Dano; I know you're pretty concerned with temps on everything. I've got a Hayden style P/S cooler kit taking up space and collecting dust up here. Got any use for it?

hum...wonder if that would make a good oil cooler...similar fluids. what are the dims of the cooler itself? I would imagine a PS cooler isn't big enough...a trans cooler on the other hand would do the trick.

[Dano]

So my decision has been finalized and parts will be sourced today and Monday.

the list:

New Mazda LB
Mazda HG
crank washers and bolt
conrod bearing set
New Wiseco rings

oh forgot the plan.

crack open brand new LB and put my forged goodies inside before it goes into the car.

[Easter Bunny]

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i really wanted the old motor to work out for you. How is it holding up? Did you do anything other that put the old parts back in?

[CosmicArkie]

@Dano;

The cooler is like this one:

Power Steering Cooler Made by Hayden Coolers 1009 | eBay

Doubt you'd want to use it for engine oil unless as a secondary. Which might not be
such a bad idea if you've got room.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Dano So my decision has been finalized and parts will be sourced today and Monday. the list: New Mazda LB Mazda HG crank washers and bolt conrod bearing set New Wiseco rings oh forgot the plan. crack open brand new LB and put my forged goodies inside before it goes into the car.

Matt and I are doing a couple VVT actuator replacements tomorrow, but we should be done with it after that. He or I can mail my kit back to you.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by silvapain Matt and I are doing a couple VVT actuator replacements tomorrow, but we should be done with it after that. He or I can mail my kit back to you.

you're a good man but hell at this point the timing kit is all I lack for a complete DISI rebuild so imma get my own. 64 bones from ebay...

I think this is the correct one.

Correcting Engine Timing Belt Tool Kit 4 Ford & Mazda Replacing Timing Belt on eBay!

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i really wanted the old motor to work out for you. How is it holding up? Did you do anything other that put the old parts back in?

lol you and me both but FWIW here is my reasoning for moving forward with a new motor.

Existing Motor Cons in order of importance to me:

1) car downtime - can't go without a car for another month or two to complete the rest of the below list. This is after all motor building "season" and any good shop around here is booked.
2) honing debris causing conrod bearings to scar up...possible main bearing damage and or oil pump. This means my current motor needs to come out and at least get a full once over at a machine shop..block boil/flush, crank polish, reassembly. can you say FUCK THAT?
3) Valve lash out of spec so I already have to time "A" motor again so it might as well be a brand new motor with forged internals.
4) THE NOISE...FOR GOD SAKE THE FUCKING PHANTOM NOISE, that will likely still be there if I tried to patch this one back together anyways.
5) Possible cam journal damage to the head but I am really hoping a polish will bring any scaring into spec

New Motor Pros

1) limited downtime - plan covered below
2) New block and head when finished
3) No bucket swap game
4) Likely an entire spare motor when done that can be built or parted out as is.


I think I can get the new block here, tear it down, measure the bores using my saved piston measurements and have it ready to accept the forged parts out of my existing motor. Then over a 4 day weekend pull the old motor, take rods/pistons out and drop into new motor, assemble new motor, drop into car sometime the next week/weekend, profit.

Possible snags:

bores are not large enough to make .025 P2W clearance. What then? Pull crank and oil pump, hone bores, take to shop for cleanup then reassemble. Still hopefully won't add but a week to the entire project.

Still have lots of planning to do but that is the jist.

[TiGraySpeed6]

That's an outrageous looking kit for $65 Dano-
If it's the right one that's a heck of a deal. Should you end up getting it I expect full details on it's actual functionality in the real world....

[Dano]

Yeah. Shoulda got the SU kit w 2 pieces for 200. Lol


Tappin

[mrQQ]

ok, so the takeaway from this thread is, whenever you are rebuilding your motor, be sure NOT TO/TO....:

a) ??

[Tokay444]

There's that missing zero again.

Originally Posted by mrQQ ok, so the takeaway from this thread is, whenever you are rebuilding your motor, be sure NOT TO/TO....: a) ??

Be sure NOT to let Dano get drunk while supervising and shouting commands with his eye looking in two different directions and pointing at a broom handle in the corner of your garage.

[Dano]

I can assure you that my frequent enjoyment of various libations had nothing to do with the fail contained within this thread.

the order of occurrence was typically... fail = consume libations...not the other way around lol

I have been doing some thinking about the pending 2nd build and maybe I should put a poll together to get some opinions...

New motor install options

[CosmicArkie]

I voted #2 but I'd have to say I'm halfway between 2 & 3. My thinking is, with all you will
presumably do as far as temp control in the future, and with your knowledge base up to
this point, I don't think you're going to have nearly the fail this time around.

Butt, I may be wrong.

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by ASHMS3 If you've got the money to do a new LB and swap your forged internals in, it sounds like the way to go. Like you said, you may drop another 250+ for new bearings etc. and still be in the same boat. Drop-ins may only work well for low mileage motors. @Dano; @Tomas; @chimmike; how many miles did you guys start off with for your drop-ins? Dan, maybe your fucked up ringland caused more issues than you originally suspected? Known issues: (quick browsing threads, if I missed something please add) Chimmike: oil consumption issues but great compression results and car is running great(oil consumption suspect thirsty turbo is thristy) Tomas: Fried cam bearings, suspected debris in head, oil starvation to cams or excessive oil temps from track duty Dano: Audible rattle accompanied by observed/logged KR(mechanical timing verified 3X), fucked up bearings

Ash, I tore down with like 82k on the odo. Cylinders looked great. Did a quick-and-dirty deglaze with the craftsman hone tool and that was it.

I'm thinking maybe my quick-n-dirty port job may have caused a valve seal issue resulting in my consumption but I have absolutely no idea yet. Gonna do a leakdown eventually, and will be adding a restrictor to tarby.

[Dano]

What have we here?

[Tokay444]

Likes dat!

[TiGraySpeed6]

Dano-
You are going to have the strongest, most stable, built block here.

Simply 'cause you're starting with virgins and training them to do what you want.

When it's all said & done please post the real end result cost & part numbers involved to purchase the new block & parts like rods, bearings & the gaskets to reassemble so others can be aware of what's involved with having the bulletproofness

[Dano]

I wouldn't go that far...still running OEM pistons...more than likely. Haven't decided yet but I'll also likely use OEM head bolts b/c as it stands today, they provide more clamp force than ARPs if you don't re-torque the ARPs and maybe even if you do at 60lb/ft.

sooooo consider the cost/PITA of going with ARPs and pulling the cams and re-timing the motor so you can torque them after a heat cycle vs OEM head bolts...anyway that's my current train of thought.

I will put up an entire other thread devoted to the new build...don't want the fail to bleed over into the new stuff. And yes I'll provide job costing on build duex.

edit:

just a lil comparison of the Carrillos vs K1s. Both brought to my by Edgeautosport.com

[Tokay444]

interested how out of round the virgin bores are.

[Dano]

we will not know that...no TQ plate and IDGAF....lol

actually It would be nice to know if my Wiseco's would go in there but I am not just throwing them in and hoping they are not too tight and I don't have a TQ plate...end of story.

now if someone wants to send me a plate I'll throw it on there and measure the bores

[Tokay444]

if the wiseco's measure the same as the oem virgins, toss them in.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 if the wiseco's measure the same as the oem virgins, toss them in.

don't you mean if they measure LESS than the OEMs

[Tokay444]

oem's are forged as well, so no.

[Dano]

I don't think they are forged??

hydroscopic or some BS cast like that.

[phate]

OEM's are hypereteuctic, iirc.

[Tokay444]

not to mention, you got the wiseco's for oem bore anyway.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 forged. not to mention, you got the wiseco's for oem bore anyway.

yes...I do realize that but as a machinist you know that doesn't necessarily mean the P2W will be correct...no?

Originally Posted by phate OEM's are hypereteuctic, iirc.

hahahaha

I was completely talking out of my ass...and I knew it...and I knew others would know it

[Tokay444]

edited to reflect enlightenment